Luke Skywalker ROTJ Hero saber curiosities

[arkangel]

I'm sure this has been addressed more than once, but I'm having difficulty finding the last discussion thread.
My query is in regards to the accuracy of the MR Luke rotj hero saber and whether or not it was determined to be undersized. I'm aware that the original hero prop was machined aluminum and that there was also a resin copy made. I'm also aware (from discussions here) that the V2 and shared stunt share the same base dimensions as one was a copy of the other.

What I'm unsure of is which saber MR based the hero dimensions off of. Did they use the original hero prop that was spun from aluminum? Is this the one referred to as the Magic and Myth (MOM) saber? Or did they use the resin copy of the hero for measurements?
I know that castings have a shrinkage factor, but as a worst case scenario, wouldn't the reference used have at least been a 1st or 2nd generation casting of the resin copy?

Or... is the V2 and shared stunt simply a quarter inch larger by design and the MR hero is exact to the source material?
Information most welcome. With a new movie on the horizon, I've returned to the herd and am very pleased to see so much of the old guard and familiar names still here.

 

[arkangel]

Maybe the MR was modeled after a much smaller and skinnier resin copy?
I sadly missed out on Anakin Starkiller's stunning rotj hero which looked substantially larger than the MR and much closer to the V2 in size.

 

[thd9791]

Did they use the original hero prop that was spun from aluminum? Is this the one referred to as the Magic and Myth (MOM) saber?

From what I've understood This is correct. (and I went HARDCORE into getting info from people not too long ago...I had a thing for this prop, still do)

The resin casts are from the very end/after filming wrapped and aren't as well-known as the metal Hero, so I'm guessing MR used the nice shiny hero prop for their scaling. It's probably good publicity too.

Also, we know the timeline of the resin saber because the metal Hero/MoM saber was used for that cave/lightsaber building scene, which was shot way late. The control box was altered - and the current, altered form can be seen in that scene and nowhere else before. The resin casts are of the Hero and include this altered control box.

 

[Darth Lars]

Off to a tangent here: There is some contention about whether the building of the lightsaber was shot at all, back in the day. Mark Hamill had claimed for years that he never did the scene, until LFL published the "deleted scene" in the BluRay release. Anthony Daniels has said (to me, before the BluRay release) that a shot with him and R2D2 outside the cave was with him and a R2 only (and also BTW that it was the very last scene shot in the production of ROTJ as far as he knew). The scene must therefore be composited. Personally, I think Luke looks really fake in the scene.
The prop was modified before the resin cast and exhibitions, that is clear. On Original Prop Blog there is a picture of the innards, and it has a chip in a QFP package which was not very common back in '83.

 

[arkangel]

Off to a tangent here: There is some contention about whether the building of the lightsaber was shot at all, back in the day. Mark Hamill had claimed for years that he never did the scene, until LFL published the "deleted scene" in the BluRay release. Anthony Daniels has said (to me, before the BluRay release) that a shot with him and R2D2 outside the cave was with him and a R2 only (and also BTW that it was the very last scene shot in the production of ROTJ as far as he knew). The scene must therefore be composited. Personally, I think Luke looks really fake in the scene.
The prop was modified before the resin cast and exhibitions, that is clear. On Original Prop Blog there is a picture of the innards, and it has a chip in a QFP package which was not very common back in '83.

Sounds like Lucas was trying to "rewrite" history in order to present this new deleted, unearthed from the archives, never before seen footage for the ultra double special re-release version of the OT. Anthony Daniels is a stand up guy. I have no doubt that he would tell the story exactly how it happened.

 

[arkangel]

I'm guessing MR used the nice shiny hero prop for their scaling.

This would be my assumption as well, considering the screen used prop exists and would have been available to MR for reference.
Steve was definitely a guy that sweated over the details, even though the saber had to be idealized (even grip ridges) for mass production. The first 500 US made ones had slightly thinner grip ridges than the remainder of the run (made in China), but considering the uneven ridges on the original prop, it's impossible to say which version is the most accurate and probably comes down to personal preference. I'm guessing that MR measured each grip ridge on the original and went with the overall average. The difference between the US and China versions was apparently an unintended result in the manufacturing process, rather than by intent. Personally , I prefer the finish and grip widths on the China version and the fact that the US version is more rare isn't a factor for me.

 

[Sym-Cha]

Since I like to read these interesting threads but also enjoy pictures to elaborate ... here's a picture :



comparing the Anakin Starkiller ROTJ MoM vs. Master Replicas, which very faintly has written on the bottom : Lucasfilm All Rights Reserved © 2002 Master Replicas LLC so as to which version this is USA or China made I don't know and it has also a custom made Tri-Ring. In the rush to make this picture I put the activation box of Anakin's Luke downside up ... it's not permanently attached yet. It's clearly visible that the MR (bottom) is smaller then the one made by Anakin Starkiller

Chaim

 

[Anakin Starkiller]

I've compared the MR saber to a resin copy of the original that I have (a resin copy that is at least 4 generations removed from the metal original). My resin saber is larger than the MR. So, it is my belief that MR did not reference the original prop for their Luke ROTJ LE lightsaber. Instead, it was basically a slightly modified version of the SD Studios saber, which was based on a resin copy in Steve's possession (the type sold by mail order back in the late 80s).

Another reason why I believe this to be the case is because when MR released the EE stainless steel replica a couple of years later, they made it larger than their LE replica. The LE is 10.98" long. The EE is 11.25" long

Dan

 

[arkangel]

Thanks for the great picture reference Chaim. The MR looks to be one of the China versions with the slightly thicker grip ridges. Thanks for the great comparison pic with the AS.
Dan - I've always been impressed with how you managed to maintain the sabers proportions in a slighter larger scale. Of all the artisan made rotj sabers I've seen on this board over the years, yours is a personal favorite of mine and I believe you really nailed it, especially the pommel which is the first place I look when trying to identify the maker. Truly an exceptional piece.
Given that the MR is even smaller than a multi-generational casting, I wholeheartedly agree that the original had to be substantially bigger in scale. Producing an Elite Edition, most likely gave MR the opportunity to produce a more accurate version (measurement wise). Interesting that the Elite is longer but not thicker in diameter.

 

[Sym-Cha]

You're welcome and indeed it could well be a China manufactured version since I could compare it with one USA made version in the Junkyard right now . . . mine has a tiny hole in the Tri-ring pommel cube . . . as for the rest it's pretty much the same . . . painted red and green arrows and copper activation board and neck parts. Does it say 'Made in China' when produced there?

Chaim

 

[arkangel]

yes sir. made in china is part of the stamping on the bottom of the pommel as well as the centre hole. I was never a fan of the hole as it screams "I was made on a lathe" but its accurate to the original. The china version also has a less shiny, more matte finish which I prefer. If going the idealized route, however, polished aluminum pales in comparisin to stainless steel.

 

[Sym-Cha]

Interesting .... then mine is an enigma ... though rather faint it says quite clear under a magnifying glass :

© 2002 Lucasfilm All Rights Reserved © 2002 Master Replicas LLC

So which version do I possibly have here do you think ... a prototype? It also did not come with the usual
paperworks, # or box. However it does have the centre hole and it's not quite shiny indeed ... apart from
the copper neck

Chaim

 

[arkangel]

that IS interesting since it really looks like one of the china manufactured ones (ie: edition numbers 501 to 2500( as opposed to one of the first 500 made in the US.

 

[arkangel]

i have some pics. just trying to figure out how to post them.

 

[Sym-Cha]

I use photobucket.com ... and here's the exact same kind of Luke ROTJ being offered for sale in the junkyard :


(Courtesy lgtsbr)

Note : the red and green arrows are painted on ... not some colored plexi-glass or colored plastic as seen in the picture in post #8 by Dan and it has tiny brass screws not metal or silver in colour :wacko

Chaim

 

[lgtsbr]

I can say this, mine was made after the MR run by the same US shop that did the MR US LE run, so mine has no stampings or markings on it at all.

Dave

 

[matty matt]

I can say this, mine was made after the MR run by the same US shop that did the MR US LE run, so mine has no stampings or markings on it at all.

Dave

Any more info you could share about this Dave? I bought this one directly from a machine shop back in 2002 I believe, right after the MR run. A lot of the details look similar to yours. The arrows are raised metal that have been painted. It's a very nice piece and I've always wondered how many more were out there.

 

[lgtsbr]

I'm stretching the old memory a bit, that timeframe seems about right as to when I bought mine. I think that this was a small run, like 10-20 at most, but I could be wrong.

Outside of that, there really isn't much to tell. It is a nice piece for sure, but the Anakin Starkiller possible run has me very interested as well as a few other pieces I want to add to my collection

Dave

 

[Sym-Cha]

That makes at least 3 including mine ... so Matty ... does yours have or have no writings on the bottom ... including ©2002 etcetera?

Chaim

 

[arkangel]

Here's some pics of my China made (one of 2000 since the first 500 were made in the US). I would guess that the ones from the small run you speak of happened shortly after the official US run.

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