Luke ROTJ V2 lightsaber

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lonepigeon @ Mar 9 2007, 02:18 PM) [snapback]1435902[/snapback]</div>
Here's a list to make it a little easier.

V2 - left over ANH Kenobi stunt, slight mods to plug wire and button holes. ANH calc bubbles fell out replaced with circuit board like piece. Used during ESB practice. Seen the most in ROTJ.

Shared stunt - another left over ANH Kenobi stunt, modified post filming with bright copper paint.

Stunt - I believe new stunt sabers were made during filming (not before) so the ROTJ duel was likely done with old stunt sabers, possibly the shared stunt. New machined stunt sabers show up in Yuma. Solid aluminum control box attached with 2 screws.

Vader hands ROTJ Hero - For the insert shot of Vader holding saber. This is NOT the saber everyone replicates (SD, MR, etc). It appears to be a Stunt like mentioned above, but with details on the control box. Could be the same stunt mentioned above but modified or before parts came off (glued on to cover 2 screws).

Hero? - The ROTJ saber with LEDs and slide open control box with interior electronics (basis for SD and MR replicas, lots of castings of this original floating around). I have NO idea where this one was used. It's more detailed than the one in Vader's hands, but apparently is not in the movie. Maybe the saber used for the Luke constructing his lightsaber scene that was only partly shot.

Resin cast of "Hero?" - seen on exhibit many times. What was it used for? No idea.

R2 launching saber - flat top emitter, no nipple or hole. Sold in auction (last year?). IIRC multiples made.

Expanding saber - the supposed saber for the "Luke constructing his lightsaber" scene. Owned by Elstree. Apparently never delivered to set, probably never in LFL hands so not screen used and "made for production" status questionable.


That's a list off the top of my head. Might be missing some.
As for the V2 lever... I have no idea where it came from. They probably removed the one sidebar because the lever screwpost was too short. Lever is long, rounded rectangular in shape (similar to Graflex), end is bent. Pivot point is visible in Obi-Wan pic. I hope it's related to some other ANH prop part so we're able to figure out what the lever exactly looked like, but I haven't found anything yet.
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I thought the shared stunt was used for ESB practice, not the V2. Huh.

The shared stunt has definitely been cleaned up over the years. The neck has been painted to match the "hero", that funky black ring was apparently painted on the emitter step (beneath the emitter flange), and the chrome/duct tape was added, for starters.

The stunt with the two screws in the control box looks pretty weathered around the copper neck area. A good shot of it can been seen when Luke deflects the barge's laserblast while entangled in Fett's cable.


I also think that the shared stunt was used for much of the final duel. Also, Luke appears to toss away either the V2 or the (more likely) shared stunt (or stunt/Vader "hero") at the end of the duel (I think it has a Graflex clamp lever; I'll have to double-check).





And, regarding the Elstree "reveal" saber, here's a repost of my thoughts on the prop from the existing thread on it.

While this Elstree saber certainly is a cool item, I don't necessarily think this is a real prop made for the film back in 1982.

Consider this:

Various sources have said that the scene the prop was to appear in was never even filmed.

Further, there appears to a a *green crystal* inside the prop, beneath the control box. There are two things wrong with this:

1. The whole notion of lightsabers containing colored crystals surely did not exist in 1982, when this prop would have been built (unless the crystal was added to the prop years--maybe even decades--later).

2. At the time this prop would have been built, everyone thought that Luke's new saber would have a blue blade. Even early trailers for Jedi show the saber with a blue blade. It wasn't changed to green until long after filming was done. So why would this "authentic" prop have a green crystal (or any crystals to begin with)?


Also, Elstree claims to have made six sabers for the film, and these new revelations do tie in with that. Of course, if they're wrong about the "reveal" saber, they may be wrong about that, too.



The V2 is really unique among sabers. I'm rather conflicted about it. On the one hand, the "hero" is nice and pristine and looks like a newly-built saber (as the film's story indicates), but on the other hand, the V2 saw the most screen-time.

And, on the one hand, the stunt/Vader "hero" gets the best close-up in the film, so does that mean that the pristine/copper-necked "hero" version trumps the V2 as the "real" hero? Or does the V2's large amount of screen-time give it more weight in the argument?
 
Oh the humanity :lol How can we keep all of our names straight with these props ?

Runs in the other room............

All I know is the saber I'll be assembling and painting will have the conical knob near the pommel and the plaque will say "V2" :p

Steve
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DL 44 Blaster @ Mar 9 2007, 07:43 PM) [snapback]1436170[/snapback]</div>
Oh the humanity :lol How can we keep all of our names straight with these props ?

Runs in the other room............

All I know is the saber I'll be assembling and painting will have the conical knob near the pommel and the plaque will say "V2" :p

Steve
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Or, given the new info and speculation, maybe that should read "V1".
 
By definition, a prop chosen for use in a closeup is generally the "hero". So I don't think we should go changing all the names we've been using. If not for that reason, then just to prevent confusion.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Treadwell @ Mar 9 2007, 07:52 PM) [snapback]1436183[/snapback]</div>
By definition, a prop chosen for use in a closeup is generally the "hero". So I don't think we should go changing all the names we've been using. If not for that reason, then just to prevent confusion.
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Good point. As it is, there are alread too many to keep track of.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(incrediPAUL @ Mar 9 2007, 08:17 PM) [snapback]1436206[/snapback]</div>
I think the tightest shot gets you hero status.
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Which means the Vader "hero" (stunt?) wins. Right?

It would be kinda funny if the one that everyone's been replicating all these years (including MR) never even appeared on-screen.


I think it's likely that the version we know so well as the "hero" was the one that was built for the unused "Luke building his saber" scene (as opposed to the Elstree version, which I have doubts about).

After all, if plans were underway to use the Elstree "reveal" saber in that scene, then why did the V1 Hero (which is actually in the LFL Archives, unlike the Elstree reveal) have a slide-open control plate? Why would it be built like that, if the Elstree prop's control plate could do that and come apart in all those other neat ways?


Having said all that, I don't think I'll ever be able to shake the V1 Hero out of its spot in my mind as the "real" version of the saber. I love the MR version of that prop. I got it back in '02 when it was released, and it was my very first "official" saber prop, and my first Luke ROTJ saber.

But I'm very curious to see how MR's V2 comes along. I might just get that, if/when it's released.
 
I have a descent Hero that I want to change to a V2, does anyone make the knurled knob yet? Roman's Empire website is gone, does anyone know where I can get a Graflex clamp? Thank you.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gregatron @ Mar 10 2007, 12:36 AM) [snapback]1436163[/snapback]</div>
I thought the shared stunt was used for ESB practice, not the V2. Huh.
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I remember seeing the cone knob in ESB practice shots. This was after I wrote the Part of SW page so I didn't revise the information. Both were probably used, hard to tell since they are essentially the same during ANH/ESB.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gregatron @ Mar 10 2007, 12:36 AM) [snapback]1436163[/snapback]</div>
And, regarding the Elstree "reveal" saber, here's a repost of my thoughts on the prop from the existing thread on it.

While this Elstree saber certainly is a cool item, I don't necessarily think this is a real prop made for the film back in 1982.

Consider this:

Various sources have said that the scene the prop was to appear in was never even filmed.

Further, there appears to a a *green crystal* inside the prop, beneath the control box. There are two things wrong with this:

1. The whole notion of lightsabers containing colored crystals surely did not exist in 1982, when this prop would have been built (unless the crystal was added to the prop years--maybe even decades--later).

2. At the time this prop would have been built, everyone thought that Luke's new saber would have a blue blade. Even early trailers for Jedi show the saber with a blue blade. It wasn't changed to green until long after filming was done. So why would this "authentic" prop have a green crystal (or any crystals to begin with)?
[/b]

Good points.
I'm not so sure about #1 though. Lucas was always interested in crystals and the Force hence the Kaiburr crystal in Splinter of the Minds Eye which was originally in early drafts of ANH. I wouldn't be surprised if the crystal in lightsabers idea originated earlier than 1982. Definite longshot, but possible.

I don't trust what Elstree says about their props mainly because I've seen them claim replicas as originals several few times. Check out their website. Even now it shows 2 Han blasters and a Stormtrooper blaster - all three claimed to be real by Elstree, but they are all fake. The Han blasters are early Marco replicas and the Stormtrooper blaster is an MGC Sterling with a M38a2 scope and the scope rail is wrong (might also be the work of Marco). No doubt they have some real pieces, but they're mixed in among the fakes.
http://www.elstreeprops.com/Star_Wars_/star_wars_.html
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lonepigeon @ Mar 10 2007, 05:34 PM) [snapback]1436855[/snapback]</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gregatron @ Mar 10 2007, 12:36 AM) [snapback]1436163[/snapback]
I thought the shared stunt was used for ESB practice, not the V2. Huh.
[/b]

I remember seeing the cone knob in ESB practice shots. This was after I wrote the Part of SW page so I didn't revise the information. Both were probably used, hard to tell since they are essentially the same during ANH/ESB.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gregatron @ Mar 10 2007, 12:36 AM) [snapback]1436163[/snapback]</div>
And, regarding the Elstree "reveal" saber, here's a repost of my thoughts on the prop from the existing thread on it.

While this Elstree saber certainly is a cool item, I don't necessarily think this is a real prop made for the film back in 1982.

Consider this:

Various sources have said that the scene the prop was to appear in was never even filmed.

Further, there appears to a a *green crystal* inside the prop, beneath the control box. There are two things wrong with this:

1. The whole notion of lightsabers containing colored crystals surely did not exist in 1982, when this prop would have been built (unless the crystal was added to the prop years--maybe even decades--later).

2. At the time this prop would have been built, everyone thought that Luke's new saber would have a blue blade. Even early trailers for Jedi show the saber with a blue blade. It wasn't changed to green until long after filming was done. So why would this "authentic" prop have a green crystal (or any crystals to begin with)?
[/b]

Good points.
I'm not so sure about #1 though. Lucas was always interested in crystals and the Force hence the Kaiburr crystal in Splinter of the Minds Eye which was originally in early drafts of ANH. I wouldn't be surprised if the crystal in lightsabers idea originated earlier than 1982. Definite longshot, but possible.

I don't trust what Elstree says about their props mainly because I've seen them claim replicas as originals several few times. Check out their website. Even now it shows 2 Han blasters and a Stormtrooper blaster - all three claimed to be real by Elstree, but they are all fake. The Han blasters are early Marco replicas and the Stormtrooper blaster is an MGC Sterling with a M38a2 scope and the scope rail is wrong (might also be the work of Marco). No doubt they have some real pieces, but they're mixed in among the fakes.
http://www.elstreeprops.com/Star_Wars_/star_wars_.html
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I've been doing some research to figure out when this whole "crystal craze" started.

The original ANH novelization mentions some "jewel-like components" on the exterior of the hilt of Luke's "family heirloom" saber, but keep in mind that this was (ghost)written when the McQuarrie one-handed concept saber was in vogue (and the rest of the description follows that concept version--a short handgrip with a mirrored disc that the blade is projected from).

I think the first mention of a saber having internal crystals to focus the energy blade was quite possibly in the WestEndGames RPG guidebooks, and it was a notion that was perpetuated/regurgitated in the SW Technical Journal, the Shadows of the Empire novel, the SW Visual Dictionary, and various comic books/novels/guidebooks, etc. The idea was really firmly cemented in the prequel film era, with prominent discussions of crystals in the PT's Visual Dictionaries, the Clone Wars cartoons, etc.


I don't think there's a snowball's chance that the propmakers (or Lucas) in 1982 would have added a crystal to Luke's new saber, and certainly not a green crystal (as previously stated).
 
This thread certainly has gotten a lot of seemingly new info the past few days. Great stuff :) My only question is- how of this has been known but just not shared before vs. stuff that's coming out of MR's research as a result of planning to replicate the v2?
 
Barry - many thanks for the info. It's great to hear the V2 is at last getting the recognition many have thought it deserves as the 'hero' saber of ROTJ, and that MR is going to produce the ultimate version of this saber.
I've spent countless hours researching this beat up beauty, using the few pictures available for scaling and blueprinting for distribution throughout the community, and I have just one question, a detail that has been bothering me for years.
Is the side of the cone knob knurled or not?

Cheers.

Howard.
 
Are we SURE this isn't just a bent nail? The curvature towards the tip might suggest a nail which has had the pointed end battered with a hammer to dull the point.

Yes. You're looking at a cell phone pic of a page in a book. The book photo should be clear enough to show the pivot point with hinge pin.
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Does anyone have the resources to scan a good close-up of that photo showing the detail?
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The image also appears in the photo gallery on the 2004 SW Trilogy DVD set's bonus disc. Perhaps someone could make a screencap.
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I just upgraded my PC and have no screencap facilities at the moment - can someone take a grab of this image and post it here, it should show more detail that the scanned photograph.
 
The image from the DVD photo gallery actually shows a lot less detail than the photo from the book.

Are we SURE this isn't just a bent nail? The curvature towards the tip might suggest a nail which has had the pointed end battered with a hammer to dull the point.

Yes. You're looking at a cell phone pic of a page in a book. The book photo should be clear enough to show the pivot point with hinge pin.

Does anyone have the resources to scan a good close-up of that photo showing the detail?
[/quote]


The image also appears in the photo gallery on the 2004 SW Trilogy DVD set's bonus disc. Perhaps someone could make a screencap.
[/quote]

I just upgraded my PC and have no screencap facilities at the moment - can someone take a grab of this image and post it here, it should show more detail that the scanned photograph.
[/quote]
 
I have a real Graflex clamp for my blank finally. Yay.

I've always thought the nail was too thick to go through the sidebars. I think the bars will have to be drilled. Any thoughts on this?

The other thing I'm thinking is to have a rod with a threaded end and only drill the bar on the bent side, so then I can likely use the lever if I choose to in the future. Someone know the threading size on the sidebar?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cayman shen @ Mar 16 2007, 06:04 PM) [snapback]1441492[/snapback]</div>
I've always thought the nail was too thick to go through the sidebars. I think the bars will have to be drilled. Any thoughts on this?
[/b]

There's no nail, so no need to drill.
 
Ok its not a nail, its a lever, some sort of lever, according to Barry.

So what now? We remove the Graflex clamp lever, remove one seidebar, and leave it like that for now? :D
 
We need more info on this 'lever'.

Maybe once we have the MR it will help us identify it?
 
So I finally weathered my V2 this weekend. I have to say, I think it's one of the best ones I've seen. Of course, I don't have a digital camera, so I can say that without having to back up my egotistical claim.

The Graflex clamp distorted a bit going on, which annoyed me, but by wrenching the clamp down tight I got it almost back to perfectly round. On that note, how do I keep it from rotating freely? I was thinking a shim of some kind. Thoughts?
 
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