Lucas to retire?

[Solo4114]

What I find interesting is that he responds to the criticism quite this way. "They think you're a terrible person." I don't think he's a terrible person, I just think he's not anywhere near as good a storyteller as we all thought him to be prior to about, oh, 1997. Lucas unfettered brought us TPM. Lucas restrained brought us ESB.

It's also particularly telling that he reacts to fan disagreement with his changes as if it's a relationship akin to the one he had with the studios (which was primarily antagonistic). It seems that anyone who doesn't like his chosen version is trying to "control" him and he responds by either forcing them to contend with his version, or simply taking his ball and going home.



As I've said, I don't begrudge the guy the right to tinker with his films from here to eternity. I actually think that, if he had never tried to suppress the "original" versions, and simply released them in the most up-to-date format while simultaneously releasing "Star Wars '97" or "Star Wars '04" or "Star Wars '11", the degree of fan backlash would've been SUBSTANTIALLY toned down. In fact, folks might have come to view the updated versions as interesting curios, much the same way they do, say, the various versions of Blade Runner.


You don't see anyone giving Ridley Scott s**t for tinkering with Blade Runner, do you? Why? Simple. Because he's never tried to suppress the other versions. Quite the contrary. He wanted to give fans his most perfect vision, but in so doing, still gave them the OTHER versions side by side. Don't like the Final Cut? No problem! Watch the International Cut or the Workprint Cut instead! They're all on DVD/BR at proper resolutions and with surround sound encoding (if it existed for that print), so knock yourself out.

But with Lucas, it's his way or the highway. You WILL watch HIS version or you will watch no version at all. There will be no compromise.

 

[Solo4114]

1. They look great despite their format.
2. Who cares if they are called Special Features? They are the only things ON the special features disc. :lol
3. The top and bottom black bar has never bothered me. I never understood that complaint. As for getting bars on the sides, there is a solution. Get a 16:9 display.

I don't have a 16:9 display myself, but my understanding is that the laserdisc rips are problematic precisely because they're designed for 4:3 displays and NOT for 16:9 displays.

What you end up watching is a 4:3 image of a 16:9 image that has been converted via "letterboxing" to a 4:3 image. Meaning that you get either a funky stretched screen, or you get black bars all around your low-res image on top, bottom, left, and right.

Meaning that it looks like this:

Instead of this:

Or even better, this:

 

[spectre_general]

But with Lucas, it's his way or the highway. You WILL watch HIS version or you will watch no version at all. There will be no compromise.

And I mean, really and truly, as much as I dislike the stuff he is doing right now, they are HIS movies. As much as fans feel ownership over the stuff, it's not ours. It's his, and he owes us nothing.

The way it should work is that he puts out a great movie, and everyone goes to it and gives him money. He puts out a bad one and no one goes to it, he gets no money, and thinks twice about it next time. It's at the point now people are just trying to punish themselves by shelling out for the slightly newer cut, or the next re-release.

I do think he is a great storyteller. You read the Raiders story session transcripts and he's like an idea engine, just creating, creating, creating.

That plus a stubborn independent streak means that he takes risks and does great stuff everyone tells him not to like Star Wars, or does poor stuff people might otherwise warn him about like the prequels. It cuts both ways.

 

[Organic Mechanic]

I don't have a 16:9 display myself, but my understanding is that the laserdisc rips are problematic precisely because they're designed for 4:3 displays and NOT for 16:9 displays.

What you end up watching is a 4:3 image of a 16:9 image that has been converted via "letterboxing" to a 4:3 image. Meaning that you get either a funky stretched screen, or you get black bars all around your low-res image on top, bottom, left, and right.

Meaning that it looks like this:

Instead of this:

Or even better, this:

Weird. I get none of that with mine. I will reiterate however that I do want the OOT on BluRay. I just can't bring myself to hate the man who gave us Star Wars, THX1138, and Indiana Jones because he doesn't want to do it.

 

[tgreco]

The top and bottom black bar has never bothered me. I never understood that complaint. As for getting bars on the sides, there is a solution. Get a 16:9 display.

I have a hi def widescreen tv... but because they are non animorphic, the black bars on the top and bottom are actually ON the picture... which means when it's constrained from a 2.35:1 size screen and it's playing on a 16:9 screen, the TV has to compensate by putting the black bars on the sides.....

THUS:

 

[Organic Mechanic]

You know what? I haven't watched SW in a couple of months. I could be entirely wrong about how it displays on my TV.

But please remember, I too want what you want. I just don't feel the hatred.

 

[Contec]

I hope he makes more movies like THX 1138. Small movies instead of trying to hit home runs with everything and the kitchen sink would be nice.

The effect guys did in fact use a kitchen sink in episode 2 or 3. They lanched it at a spacecraft during spacebattles... they say so in the commentary.

 

[zahal]

...as long as Harmy does not retire. The OT in HD exists.

 

[Grey]

to not make any more Star Wars movies

oh no

The best things to happen to Star Wars since the original Trilogy are the projects that Lucas has not been attatched to. Namely, the video games based on the expanded universe like the Knights of the Old Republic titles.

 

[Mola Rob]

What I and many others feel is not hatred but terrible disappointment that his last four blockbusters didn't fit the tone, feel, or quality of the originals. Big deal I can live with it. I actually tried very hard to find them entertaining and find some redeeming qualities to them, that's how much I wanted to enjoy them.

 

[vaderdarth]

I luvs me some jar jar and don't care who knows it!!!

 

[Solo4114]

And I mean, really and truly, as much as I dislike the stuff he is doing right now, they are HIS movies. As much as fans feel ownership over the stuff, it's not ours. It's his, and he owes us nothing.

The way it should work is that he puts out a great movie, and everyone goes to it and gives him money. He puts out a bad one and no one goes to it, he gets no money, and thinks twice about it next time. It's at the point now people are just trying to punish themselves by shelling out for the slightly newer cut, or the next re-release.

I do think he is a great storyteller. You read the Raiders story session transcripts and he's like an idea engine, just creating, creating, creating.

That plus a stubborn independent streak means that he takes risks and does great stuff everyone tells him not to like Star Wars, or does poor stuff people might otherwise warn him about like the prequels. It cuts both ways.

Yeah, it cuts both ways. Lucas, in my opinion, is a guy who needs a savvy "editor." He's an amazing "idea man" but, I think the percentages break down thus:

- 45% of his ideas are pure crap.
- 35% of his ideas are pretty good, and with some tweaking could be really cool.
- 20% of his ideas are PURE GENIUS that leaves everyone's jaws on the floor.

I think earlier in his career, he had more people around him who could redirect him and manage to cajole, convince, or otherwise keep what got to the public mostly in the pretty good/genius realm. Thus, the "myth" about him as this infallible, amazing visionary was born. It's true, of course, but it's not the whole story.


After a while, though, those people left and it was just him and "yes" men like Rick McCallum. Now, again, I don't begrudge these guys what they do. Their job, as designed by Lucas himself, is to execute his vision and respond to his orders. It's hierarchical, rather than collaborative. Or to the extent it's collaborative, it's collaborative WITHIN the bounds set by Lucas' vision.

The end result is the Prequels and Indy IV, for better or worse.

And let's be fair. There ARE some really kickass amazing aspects of, yes, even TPM. But they come burdened with the likes of Jar Jar and there's just no gettin' around that. Nowadays, as cool as the "cool" may be, you gotta take it with the "crap." There's no filter anymore.


But, to get to your point about "They ARE his movies," yes. Yes they are. Legally, they're his -- all his. But they still "belong to the fans," too. Not legally, of course, but they do. Art belongs to the people as well as the creators. Art is a conversation among two people, not a one-sided lecture. Art doesn't exist without an audience, even if that audience is only ever the creator themselves. When the creator releases the work to the public, the artistic experience is now shared by the public for better or worse. In that sense, art belongs to the public, not just to the creator.

Lucas doesn't agree, it seems. Thus, the "suppression" of the OOT. And yes, it's suppression, in my opinion. while the original still exists, it's not available to the public in any modern format the way any other movie is. A blu-ray of any other movie will not be done in non-anamorphic 16:9, nor will it be at laserdisc resolution. You can't even get the OOT in native DVD resolution. It doesn't exist, absent some fan edit. That, as far as I can see, is suppression.

Weird. I get none of that with mine. I will reiterate however that I do want the OOT on BluRay. I just can't bring myself to hate the man who gave us Star Wars, THX1138, and Indiana Jones because he doesn't want to do it.

Personally, I don't hate the guy at all. I appreciate a lot of what he's done. I just think he has, in the last 15 years, made some really stupid decisions. As a consumer, I can certainly opt out of buying this or that version, but there's literally no option for me to buy what I want. It doesn't exist. And it doesn't exist because George Lucas decrees it. I find that both irritating and a great pity.

Some day, I'm going to have kids, and I'm going to want to share the experience that I so enjoyed as a kid myself of watching the old Star Wars movies. Now, I can probably jerry-rig some setup where, on whatever format we have at that point, I can watch some rip of a laserdisc or VHS tape or whatever, but what I probably won't be able to do is to go down to the store or online or wherever, and buy myself a non-SE version of those films.

I think that hurts Lucas' legacy with respect to the Star Wars franchise. Moreover, I think it completely misses the boat on what an accomplishment the untouched original trilogy is. To use the technology of the day and be able to produce what was produced...that's astounding! But now there's no commercially available modern-format record of it, nor will there be unless Lucas himself changes his mind. We can't all hop on a bus and head down to the Library of Congress to go view the original Star Wars, can we? We're stuck with whatever versions Lucasfilm releases to the public for purchase, and whatever happens to hit the theaters or TV. And that's all because Lucas insists that we watch it the way he intends it, and no other way. No comparisons between the two, no room for disagreement, no acknowledgment of what came before, just his way or the highway.

That's wrong.

 

[tgreco]

I just don't feel the hatred.

I don't hate him. I really don't.

At the end of the day I'll watch the first 6 Star Trek movies, and I'm all good. They're consistently better anyway.

What I think is a load of crap is GL whining about how fans just are towing his party line. Yes, they're his... and he's welcome to them.


and I think this is even more telling...
Where have I heard this before:
"“I can’t make that movie,” Lucas recalled thinking when he read the scripts. “I’m going to have make this kind of . . . entertainment movie.” So Lucas focused on the middle chapter: the dogfights and the Nazi-hunting black pilots"

doesn't that sound an aweful lot like how he described Star Wars

it's ALL just marketing crapola

it's all written and prepared and delivered in a way to make multi-billionaire Lucas seem like the little guy

and sadly, the fact that fanboys rush to his rescue to defend the Holy George against the Evil Forces of Fandom who tell him he's not a good person...

it all just tells me that he is giving a performance... a more convincing performance then any of the actors in the prequels

and it's precisely the same marketing speil he gave for the last two SW movies.

and would I go see another SW movie? I didn't see the last one.

 

[Timmythekid]

sorry, but Lucas just sounds like a cry baby

if he can't take the boos with the cheers then that's on him... not those booing or cheering

After reading the article, I think you all missed the point. What he said made him think "why bother" about further SW projects wasn't people complaining about the prequels. That's fair, and valid criticism, and the guy said if he failed, he failed on his terms - fair enough. What he said he was hurt by was the 'horrible things people call you', the personal attacks - saying that because you don't like the films he made, or the changes he made to those films subsequently he 'raped your childhood', or the endless hypocritical fanboi hyperbole about his weight, or calling him morally and creatively bankrupt, and on and on. Because you didn't like his space movies. :rolleyes

Those personal attacks are total crap and have no place in the discussion about the merits of his artistic output. Yet that's what every discussion about his films boils down to, so screw it - why subject himself to that crap?

 

[cayman shen]

You know why he did it that way? Because that is how he made the original trilogy.

He didnt lose his touch, you just got older.

Ah, the "you just got older" argument. Maybe the problem isn't that I got older, but HE did.

 

[Nwerke]

"We just showed the Wizard of Oz, he said he was so happy we left in the Ewoks."

Oooh! Ouch! :lol

But then Lord of the Rings came out, a series at least as anticipated and nostalgic as the prequels, and they were excellent movies that everyone loves.

To quibble, they polarised audiences sharply. MOST people love them, I do, but the ones who don't, seem to hate them with the burning passion of a thousand exploding suns. Er, ahem.

People (like me) wonder what happened to pre-1990 Lucas and what changed. This is him here, a stubborn, independent creator, for good or bad.

Oh. Hmm. Point!

What I find interesting is that he responds to the criticism quite this way. "They think you're a terrible person." I don't think he's a terrible person, I just think he's not anywhere near as good a storyteller as we all thought him to be prior to about, oh, 1997.

1997? Er...Howard the Duck. Just gonna leave that there. :lol

Actually, Last Crusade, too.

What he said he was hurt by was the 'horrible things people call you', the personal attacks

And fair enough. For the record, I hate the product, yes. The man, no.

 

[ShadowX81]

And I mean, really and truly, as much as I dislike the stuff he is doing right now, they are HIS movies. As much as fans feel ownership over the stuff, it's not ours. It's his, and he owes us nothing.

Then why did Lucas himself campaign against directors trying to colorize thier old black and white movies; publicly taking the position that they are part of our cultural heriage and should not be altered?

 

[spectre_general]

Then why did Lucas himself campaign against directors trying to colorize thier old black and white movies; publicly taking the position that they are part of our cultural heritage and should not be altered?

I was wondering about this myself. I've seen that video, and it really clashes with what he's doing now.

It's been a while and I might be recalling it wrong, but does he say "directors" trying to alter their movies? Or does he say something like "people" altering movies, or more tellingly, "studios" altering movies?

Again, after reading that article, this totally gels with the Lucas of 1977 and the Lucas of today. It's the same impulse; independence and freedom from interference, but depending on the result (good movies or not) it's an aspect to him that's either celebrated or reviled.

-

To respond to rodneyfaile's point, the very problem with the PT is that he didn't make them like the original trilogy.

In the original, he created the script and the world, then gathered a bunch of like-minded artists to make it happen. He only directed the first one, and he had co-writers credited on each script because, as he said on numerous occasions himself, he can't write dialogue.

It's a skill in itself to build a group like that and create genius with it, and Lucas has it. With the PT he just said "I'm going to do it all myself" and forgot about that.

I have high hopes for Red Tails for this reason, because he seems to be adopting a lot of his old methods of collaboration to make it, hiring great writers and artists to, under his guidance, execute his vision.

 

[jlee562]

Then why did Lucas himself campaign against directors trying to colorize thier old black and white movies; publicly taking the position that they are part of our cultural heriage and should not be altered?

I get why this criticism of Lucas so resonates with fans who are angry with him over the various changes.

But the situation is slightly different. The colorization thing was going on without the consent of the original directors (as far as I know). The colorization of film changes the entire composition of the film. Lucas' changes, for better or worse, are better thought of as "revisions" than a complete re-do.

 

[Psab keel]

With all of the backlash and debate over the prequels and the changes to the OT, it makes me wonder if given the chance, would one of us be able to calmly sit down and talk with Lucas about his films?

All of the petitions in the world, and I've signed several to get the unaltered OT release, all of the debate, and all of the frustration from fans will never change his mind unless Lucas chooses to change it himself.

Lucas has EVERY right to change his work. But in the context of film HISTORY, I feel he has an obligation to preserve it for future generations. I've heard the following scenario brought up over the last several years. If Leonardo DaVinci was alive today, and decided to destroy the Mona Lisa, would we allow him? Would he have the right? Of course. But shouldn't he in some way be responsible for preserving it in some way for the future?

Films are very much a product of the time in which they were made, and ultimately say a LOT about the era in which they were released. Star Wars was released in a time when films were downbeat and gritty. It was a breath of fresh air that reinvigorated audiences around the world. The idea that fans somehow have "ownership" of the films is preposterous, but Lucas doesn't seem to grasp the concept that his work was so important in the grand scheme of cinema history and pop culture at large.