qcfoundry
Sr Member
well put w'chimp. i was going to use the flux capacitor if moviefreak stuck around, but it seems he was only interested in actually complaining, and not listening/discussing/learning.
Lost season 6 with spoilers beware
- Thread starter BIKERFETT
- Start date
well put w'chimp. i was going to use the flux capacitor if moviefreak stuck around, but it seems he was only interested in actually complaining, and not listening/discussing/learning.
ghostryder
Legendary Member
http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2010/05/23/lostwatch-all-of-this-matters/
http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/reviews/2010-05-24-lostreview24_ST_N.htm?csp=hf
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/05/lost-finale.html
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/24/lost-watch-embracing-the-white-light/
http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/reviews/2010-05-24-lostreview24_ST_N.htm?csp=hf
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/05/lost-finale.html
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/24/lost-watch-embracing-the-white-light/
maboot38
Well-Known Member
Not only that, he's complaining about it on MULTIPLE threads. At least he's consistent.
ghostryder
Legendary Member
Buddy of mine sent me this:
:lol
Bobtherocker
Well-Known Member
Its not often a television show will make me feel emotional enough to well up and actually have a wee tear roll down my cheek in fact I'd say thats a first.
I got all the answers I need and feel I can also let go and move on.
Brilliant!!
I got all the answers I need and feel I can also let go and move on.
Brilliant!!
GroundskeeperWillie
Well-Known Member
I was fine with the afterlife-limbo-construct resolution. I had accepted that a long time ago, when Sayid made his deal with MIB because MIB promised that Sayid could 'see' Nadia again. Well, his sideways life took a bad turn there because, in siding with the Enemy, even briefly, he got exactly what was promised--he saw Nadia again, but she was married and out of reach. Sayid turned good again and sacrificed himself, so he gets to be in the church and reunited with Shannon, a 'consolation prize' of sorts, but it was clear that what happened in the afterlife, good or bad, seemed to be a consequence of how life was lived on the island, good or bad.
I was very moved by the scenes of reuniting/rediscovery among the Losties in the sideways world, and to the extent that this particular aspect of the story wasn't overtly explained sits fine with me because ambiguity like that fuels debate for years to come. Good stuff.
My issue, and it's a biggie, was the UTTERLY inadequate resolution of the MIB/smokey story. As stated, I'm all for ambiguity, but when you set up an true nemesis for a group of characters, you have an obligation to EVENTUALLY explain the stakes and provide an adequate resolution. Was anyone really satisfied with the way the final conflict with MIB went down? That showdown deserved a ROTJ ending where Luke (Jack) ultimately gets under Vader's (MIB's) skin and forces him to resolve his issue once and for all. If the creators wanted to go with a 'good is good and bad is bad' characterization for Jacob and MIB, they should NOT have done an episode devoted to their backstory, establishing them as human beings who BECAME immortal incarnations of good and evil. If you humanize, you have to provide motivation, point of view, and ultimately closure. Smokey warranted a much better ending than a wordless fistfight with Jack punctuated by being shot by KATE of all people (should have been Ben, in my opinion, if it had to end that way at all). It felt VERY cheap to me. And don't justify it by saying 'oh but the mystery of what made him smoke monster is best left ambiguous' etc etc. I get what you're saying, but for the purposes of the story, they needed to resolve that CORE CONFLICT better than they did. I don't need to know what the island is, what the light is, where Mother came from, any of that. I need to know what the smoke monster is and why it came to be and what it embodies and what exactly was the nature of MIB's wager with Jacob. It's the defining concept of the show--free will versus predetermination/destiny/fate--and it is embodied by NUMEROUS pairs of characters. To give it such shoddy treatment in the finale in favor of a protracted happy-afterlife-death-is-not-the-end sequence is not up to the high standards set by these writers for the last 6 years.
In my opinion.
I was very moved by the scenes of reuniting/rediscovery among the Losties in the sideways world, and to the extent that this particular aspect of the story wasn't overtly explained sits fine with me because ambiguity like that fuels debate for years to come. Good stuff.
My issue, and it's a biggie, was the UTTERLY inadequate resolution of the MIB/smokey story. As stated, I'm all for ambiguity, but when you set up an true nemesis for a group of characters, you have an obligation to EVENTUALLY explain the stakes and provide an adequate resolution. Was anyone really satisfied with the way the final conflict with MIB went down? That showdown deserved a ROTJ ending where Luke (Jack) ultimately gets under Vader's (MIB's) skin and forces him to resolve his issue once and for all. If the creators wanted to go with a 'good is good and bad is bad' characterization for Jacob and MIB, they should NOT have done an episode devoted to their backstory, establishing them as human beings who BECAME immortal incarnations of good and evil. If you humanize, you have to provide motivation, point of view, and ultimately closure. Smokey warranted a much better ending than a wordless fistfight with Jack punctuated by being shot by KATE of all people (should have been Ben, in my opinion, if it had to end that way at all). It felt VERY cheap to me. And don't justify it by saying 'oh but the mystery of what made him smoke monster is best left ambiguous' etc etc. I get what you're saying, but for the purposes of the story, they needed to resolve that CORE CONFLICT better than they did. I don't need to know what the island is, what the light is, where Mother came from, any of that. I need to know what the smoke monster is and why it came to be and what it embodies and what exactly was the nature of MIB's wager with Jacob. It's the defining concept of the show--free will versus predetermination/destiny/fate--and it is embodied by NUMEROUS pairs of characters. To give it such shoddy treatment in the finale in favor of a protracted happy-afterlife-death-is-not-the-end sequence is not up to the high standards set by these writers for the last 6 years.
In my opinion.
Noeland
Master Member
Kate said it. How much she missed Jack. As in, she died many years after him. Then she walked around an ethereal plane (ha!) looking hot in a tight black dress waiting for him. Worse ways to "move on".
And I think some folks just wanted an action movie ending, or a darker more brutal ending. Some people just respond very badly to happiness.
And I think some folks just wanted an action movie ending, or a darker more brutal ending. Some people just respond very badly to happiness.
tgreco
Sr Member
having given up on the show a long while ago, but getting to hear about the "finale" aftermath from my wife and her friend here's what I can take away from it
when you have a show based on mysteries, you should really try to explain them
when you have a show based on questions you should really answer them
and when you have a show based on a concocted mythology, you should really tell it
apparently the Lost finale did none of this
to them it was like reading a Sherlock Holmes story, and when you get to the last chapter with the resolution, their were pages missing. So somewhere between, "I know who did it" and" Lady Hampshire being acquited and living happily ever after" the explanation of what happened and why would have been nice.
The catch phrase I keep hearing today it "I watched 6 years for that"
I can't blame either of them for wanting answers, and if you're okay with not getting answers, that's fine. But it doesn't mean that those who wanted and expected answers are wrong. And sorry, but you're not likely to convince them that they are. To me, it justs seems like laziness, or they just had no way of tieing it all together because they got sloppy.
I still haven't forgiven BSG for that "finale", but I remember a lot of gushing over when it happened, and then it sank in, and now, it's just there. The squandering of a brilliant 4 year story arc. This kind of seems the same to me
Westies14
Master Member
And please be careful with the BSG references in this thread! I'm just starting the show and I avoid BSG threads so as not to ruin it. I don't know if you guys have posted spoilers or not because I keep averting my eyes at the initials, but try not to give anything away (please!)
maboot38
Well-Known Member
EXACTLY!!! I'm not trying to start anything, and I know people who haven't watched the entire series are entitled to an opinion, but there seem to be a LOT of opinions coming from that camp.
The show wasn't based on mysteries, questions, and mythology. It was based on a set of characters thrown into a situation in which they were surrounded by mysteries, questions, and mythology, and addresses how they dealt with those situations. If you lost interest and stopped watching, it is probably because you didn't see it that way.
Capn_Jack_Savvy
Sr Member
There was much mention in the promos about alternative endings! Where are they? Do they answer many of your questions or not? Were the alternative endings just the cr@p discussed with the creator interviews or did they really film them?
I agree with the MIB/Smokey unresolved issues not being closed. To provide the clues throughout the season and an entire backstory episode as to the conflict I thought it ended rather campy especially with Jack's "slow-mo" jump of the rock to attack Not Locke Monster and cut to commercial!
I agree with the MIB/Smokey unresolved issues not being closed. To provide the clues throughout the season and an entire backstory episode as to the conflict I thought it ended rather campy especially with Jack's "slow-mo" jump of the rock to attack Not Locke Monster and cut to commercial!
maboot38
Well-Known Member
That was just Jimmy Kimmel schtick and had nothing to do with the show itself.
cpltony
Sr Member
I forgot about this portion of the story....it does make you think though and I think it could be possible. He didn't want people coming to the island and staying.....too much of a risk having a permanent population there.
Both he and smokey (formerly his brother) spoke about it saying 'they come, they fight and they leave' (or something to that effect):sleep
Both were carved in stone and had a symbolic, almost temple like feel to them......again not 100% but I'd like to think so.
I don't think he could. They went into the church to 'move on' into heaven. Eventhough Locke forgave Ben....I do not believe he could go in...just didn't want to admit it. He had to pay for everything he did.
Capn_Jack_Savvy
Sr Member
Boy all these posts and various online articles mention of crying and tears and being weepy!!! I hate to say it but I didn't find it THAT moving to cause me to well up! I looked over at my wife and handed her a box of tissues and said, "OMG! You gotsta be kidding me!" Buy of course she cries at everything!!!
wackychimp
Sr Member
Good point. This is my main unanswered question. I did feel like the death of MIB was a lot like the death of Darth Maul. "Yay! The bad guy's gone!" we shout, "But why was he doing these bad things?"
All of the other "little things" I think have been explained or could be explained - Walt, polar bears, infertility, even the Light was explained to a degree (you're left to decide for yourself exactly what the light was). But, you're right, I think a death speech was needed from the MIB.
I think maybe he was was waiting for or not ready to leave because he didn't think he had attoned for Alex. But that's just me.
I watched all 6 seasons as they happened and I would disagree that the show wasn't based on mysteries... Hell the producers themselves fueled the whole mystery aspect with their Dharma/Hanzo storylines and the amount of ARG material they created... the videos, pictograms, messages, notes, etc.... Is everyone suddenly forgetting about all of that crap?
I get the very end. To have the afterlife storyline end the way it did is fine (I won't call it a flash-sideways since it DEFINITELY isn't one), with the hugging, and moving on. It was a nice way to have a happy ending where everyone is reunited with their love.
But it's everything BEFORE then that the writers set up as pretty big questions, and then didn't give ANY kind of answers to (and I'm not talking about what we've all speculated are the answers... I'm talking about spoken-on-screen answers) is why quite a lot of people have not shined onto the ending as some have here.
In a non-scientific poll here at the office I've asked everyone I know that's watched the ending to find out their take on it... none have really cared for it.
oblagon
Sr Member
I agree with you and others thoughts here; if the show wasn't about the mysteries they shouldn't have posed the questions in the first place or egged us on with this magical island. It's like watching Twin Peaks all the way to the end and never finding out who killed Laura Palmer because all the characters will die someday anyway.
kibosh
Sr Member
Maybe I'm more dense than most here, but I still can't grasp this concept. So if Kate, and presumably Hurley, Ben, and others died AFTER Jack, why were they waiting for him to move on? This seems to imply he was the last to die.
