:thumbsup Exactly my disspaointment with the show. I would have rather it been just cancelled then the way they ended it.
BTW: Larry,...it was really cool to meet you (though I never have, except in my dreams)
JJ Abrams wants to know how Guri would have ended LOST
- Thread starter Larry Young
- Start date
:thumbsup Exactly my disspaointment with the show. I would have rather it been just cancelled then the way they ended it.
BTW: Larry,...it was really cool to meet you (though I never have, except in my dreams)
Larry Young
Master Member
Any of you guys have the faintest idea just how surreal any discussion of LOST is for a non-LOST viewer?
Lapidus? Egyptian construction? Purgatory? Man, I used to think this thing was just another reality survival show.
Most discussions of LOST are surreal even for folks who've seen every episode.
Man, I have so much love for that show. Was I 100% satisfied with Season 6? Nah. But I loved the finale. And they gave me enough for me to cut them season 6 slack. That said, his statement is not needed. No one I know was "just upset that it ended". For 3 seasons we all praised them for setting end marker.
When I think back on it, it's really nothing but positive. I love me some Who and some Fringe...but nothing compares to the years Lost gave me.
Nah, Doctor Who is up there for me (old and new).
JJ needs to pipe down.
When I think back on it, it's really nothing but positive. I love me some Who and some Fringe...but nothing compares to the years Lost gave me.
Nah, Doctor Who is up there for me (old and new).
JJ needs to pipe down.
Larry Young
Master Member
Yeah, yeah. They all fell 38,000 feet and half of them lived, Jack saying for three episodes how they were all dead, the audience figured out they were in Purgatory by episode eight or so, what do you expect the writers to do?
Prop Collector
Sr Member
Island wasn't purgatory. It was just a cool island that was full of fantastical elements. But it still existed in this world. The "side world" in season 6 was purgatory.
Without even understanding the show, how are you supposed to appreciate the ending? Maybe re-watch it?
Without even understanding the show, how are you supposed to appreciate the ending? Maybe re-watch it?
Larry Young
Master Member
I understand the show, man. I'm just one of those guys who doesn't admit ALIEN is a horror movie. :lol
Go to
www.spectacularry.com
And click the LOST link and see how much I understand the show.
Go to
www.spectacularry.com
And click the LOST link and see how much I understand the show.
The truth is, by the time we got to the end, LOST was so convoluted and.... lost... that there was no way to end it with a satisfiable answer. As with many shows that have to suddenly stretch their story because of unexpected popularity, LOST simply went all over the place in an effort to maintain interest and you can't do that and then reel it all back in and tie it off with a neat bow that answers questions that were posed only for the purpose of intriguing you to watch the next episode.
nightrider
Sr Member
Think that pretty well sums it up.:thumbsup
Larry Young
Master Member
Well, it did and it didn't. On the macro level, the story structure is remarkably Bell-curved.
Season One: a disparate band of individuals learn to live together or die alone on a remote Island.
Season Two: introduces a new set of characters (The "Tailies"), plays up the theme of faith v. science, and the existence of Dharma Initiative is revealed.
Season Three: Alliances are swapped, war comes to a head. The middle point is reached, and the slide to the end starts. So much so that the fourth season premiere is called "The Beginning of the End."
Season Four: introduces a new set of characters (The "Freighter Folk"), plays up the theme of faith v. science, and the Dharma Initiative is ascendent as the Island moves.
Season Five: Alliances are swapped, "war" comes to a head, between the timelost and the spiritually lost.
Season Six: a disparate band of individuals learn to live together so they don't die alone.
TheDoctor
Sr Member
Well... no. Lost wasn't very convoluted. Yes it required you to think more than the average TV show and it asked you to keep track of things (how minor event A in season 1 affected Major event M in season 6), but it was pretty easy to follow if you didn't pop in and out. If you were a casual viewer, then it probably seemed too complicated.
Other than the "What do you mean I can't skip five episodes and still know what's going on" complaint, I think most people were just disappointed with The Answer. It would be like being a scientist, dying, then finding out you were wrong and everything is really just magic.
Overall it was a good show and an emotional ending that I enjoyed, but I did have a few problems with it.
In "Ab Aeterno," we found out that the Man in Black is the personification of evil who's greatest desire is to leave the island. The island functions as a prison and protects the outside world from his influence. Jacob is his jailer and in order for the Man in Black to escape, he must kill Jacob. Jacob can be replaced by another, thus keeping the Man in Black imprisoned.
That right there explained everything we needed to know to understand the story and the characters. If they had just stuck with that, it would have been great.
Then "Across the Sea" aired and promptly ****ed everything up. First we are told that Jacob and MiB started life as ordinary human beings, and MiB turns out to be a decent person. He is his mother's favorite and loves her, but eventually discovers that she has lied to them about everything and that she is a murderer, so he abandons her. As an adult, MiB has developed a natural curiosity about the world beyond the island and has decided to leave it. His psychotic mother shows up, tells him he can't leave for no reason, attacks him, destroys all his stuff and murders every one he knew after imprisoning them for almost 40 years for no reason. He kills her in response and feels remorseful afterwords, even though she was a dangerous murderer who could not be stopped by anyone other than her sons.
Jacob follows his mother like a lap dog, does whatever she asks without question or explanation, and has no problem with her lying or killing. He states clearly he has no desire to leave the island or even get his own place. He still lives with his mom well into his 30's.
Why is MiB the series' villain and not Jacob? Jacob and his mother imprison innocent people against their will. They require and reward mindless obedience to their authority. MiB is a decent guy who thinks for himself, believes killing is wrong, and his only crime (prior to becoming the smoke monster) is that he wants to escape from a prison he doesn't deserve to be in in the first place.
In the final episode, MiB becomes a man again after the cork is removed by Desmond. Yet he still can't be allowed to leave. Why?
Why can't MiB leave even as a man? Plenty of other characters have left the island, why not him? Why is it so important that he not leave that dozens of other people be murdered in order to prevent it?
Another problem was the island's purpose kept changing. At first it was a prison to contain evil, but then they decided it was actually "the source" and had to be protected from the MiB and the world at large. Yet it seems pretty easy to protect:
A ton of stuff in the final three episodes doesn't make sense or have any logic to it at all.
What it really is the writers coming up with a ton of plot devices and rather than making an effort to have them makes sense, they just cover it with a lot of meaningless psycho-babble and pseudo-philosophical BS about how its all metaphor, it's really about the characters and the plot and story don't have to make sense, blah, blah, blah.
In "Ab Aeterno," we found out that the Man in Black is the personification of evil who's greatest desire is to leave the island. The island functions as a prison and protects the outside world from his influence. Jacob is his jailer and in order for the Man in Black to escape, he must kill Jacob. Jacob can be replaced by another, thus keeping the Man in Black imprisoned.
That right there explained everything we needed to know to understand the story and the characters. If they had just stuck with that, it would have been great.
Then "Across the Sea" aired and promptly ****ed everything up. First we are told that Jacob and MiB started life as ordinary human beings, and MiB turns out to be a decent person. He is his mother's favorite and loves her, but eventually discovers that she has lied to them about everything and that she is a murderer, so he abandons her. As an adult, MiB has developed a natural curiosity about the world beyond the island and has decided to leave it. His psychotic mother shows up, tells him he can't leave for no reason, attacks him, destroys all his stuff and murders every one he knew after imprisoning them for almost 40 years for no reason. He kills her in response and feels remorseful afterwords, even though she was a dangerous murderer who could not be stopped by anyone other than her sons.
Jacob follows his mother like a lap dog, does whatever she asks without question or explanation, and has no problem with her lying or killing. He states clearly he has no desire to leave the island or even get his own place. He still lives with his mom well into his 30's.
Why is MiB the series' villain and not Jacob? Jacob and his mother imprison innocent people against their will. They require and reward mindless obedience to their authority. MiB is a decent guy who thinks for himself, believes killing is wrong, and his only crime (prior to becoming the smoke monster) is that he wants to escape from a prison he doesn't deserve to be in in the first place.
In the final episode, MiB becomes a man again after the cork is removed by Desmond. Yet he still can't be allowed to leave. Why?
Why can't MiB leave even as a man? Plenty of other characters have left the island, why not him? Why is it so important that he not leave that dozens of other people be murdered in order to prevent it?
Another problem was the island's purpose kept changing. At first it was a prison to contain evil, but then they decided it was actually "the source" and had to be protected from the MiB and the world at large. Yet it seems pretty easy to protect:
- No one even knows the island exists unless the Protector brings them there.
- Even when they know it exists and where it is, the island/Protector must allow them back to the island.
- With few exceptions, everyone who comes to the island wants to leave.
- No one knows that the heart of the island exists unless the Protector tells them about it.
- No one can go to the heart of the island unless the Protector allows it.
- The MiB cannot kill Jacob himself, he needs someone else to do it for him.
A ton of stuff in the final three episodes doesn't make sense or have any logic to it at all.
What it really is the writers coming up with a ton of plot devices and rather than making an effort to have them makes sense, they just cover it with a lot of meaningless psycho-babble and pseudo-philosophical BS about how its all metaphor, it's really about the characters and the plot and story don't have to make sense, blah, blah, blah.
Larry Young
Master Member
At first blush, I'd guess because Carlton and Damon slept through the Paradise Lost lecture as undergrads and had one bong hit too many listening to "Sympathy for the Devil."
Thinking for yourself is Satan's path, after all. :lol
Yeah, I got that. I know that Lost extensively rip's off the Christian mythology. That's the problem I have with it. Lost' apologist's will claim that it's "tapping into mythology" much like Star Wars did. The difference is that the original Star Wars trilogy charted it's own story and characters and stood on its own two feet.
I mean "Across the Sea" is basically a remake of the The Fall. The forbidden fruit is replaced by the light. Jacob is Adam, MiB is Eve, etc. It's this heavy handed symbolism that I tire of. I once read a review calling it "Decoder Ring Filmmaking," and that's exactly what it is.
Just tell a good story with strong characters that make sense. That's hard enough as it is and its more important. Your philosophy and themes will emerge on their own and be much more effective.
Larry Young
Master Member
Rotwang
Sr Member
I would have ended with the biggest cliffhanger ever. Then fade to black, bring in the writers who open a box full of cash, start playing with it until somebody notices the camera, points at it and then starts to laugh at the audience and everybody else joins in, waving the cash at the audience and making fun of them.
At least it would have been honest ...
At least it would have been honest ...
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