Is Palpatine Anakin Skywalker's father?

[DaddyfromNaboo]

...
Not that this is the greatest form of storytelling but it would have given some definition to the whole Jedi are forbidden to love or take a mate. The ramifications of breaking this rule would take shape in Anakin's outcome.

cry:cry

It´s so beautiful because of it´s simplicity

cry:cry

Why oh why did George not get outside writers to come up with a really touching story? There would still have been plenty of room for a lot of toy designs ....

 

[Cobalt60]

Qui-Gon dies in EP1 anyway, might as well have his character contribute something lasting to the trilogy.

qui-gon was meant to be the seperatist leader.
but GL killed him off, in an effort to give EP1 more impact...
so he needed to create a new seperatist leader, enter:dooku. (quigon's old master)

just as GL kiled off obiwan in ep4 for dramatic impact..
so he needed to create a new jedi master, enter:yoda. (obiwans old master)

he has a habit of doing this. splitting the dramatic purpose of a single character into two, so he can kill one off for dramatic effect.



quigon was supposed to survive the Battle of Maul, become disillusioned with the Jedi, and quit the order.

(same basic backstory as doku).

instead we are given 'qui-gons old master' and we are told by the writer to heap everything we know about qui-gon onto dooku instead. as if one is as good as the other. as if we can sympathise with 'quigons master' as easily as we can sympathize with quigon.

(unfortunately Lee played count dooku like count freaking dracula, so it was impossible to sympathize with this character)



imagine the ROTS 'scissors' scene with qui-gon instead of dooku: "Do It! Do It NOw!". (as anakin kills his old master quigon)

imagine the AOTC 'ray shield' scene with quigon&obiwan instead of dooku&obiwan:
"Join Me Obiwan, and together we will Destroy the Sith!"

(etc).




it would have been a better Trilogy, with qui-gon as seperatist-leader,
instead of Count Dracula Dooku.

as it stands, people have a hard time finding the Link between TPM and the rest of the trilogy.
(most people, think that TMP is completely disjointed from the rest of the trilogy.
they beLIEve that TPM only existed to introduce characters (or something);
they see it as a stand-alone adventure)

in Truth(tm), TMP is the most important episode in the arc: it gives us the justification for creating the empire ..AND.. it shows us how THE EMPIRE WAS PADME"S IDEA!! :eek :eek :eek

-==========-



ie:

TPM showed us how a pacifist/unarmed society can suddenly find need of an army, AND suddenly raise one, on a moment's notice.
Jar Jar was the only person in the room when she made the decision to use the gungan army.
"..yousa people's gonna die? the gungans got a Grand Army..(etc)."
this is the most important scene in the movie.

later, in AOTC, palpatine's aide says "..if only senator amidala were here", and we are left to wonder: WWAD (what would amidala do?)

then we see the Mighty Gear in jar jar's head shift one full cog to the left (he REMEMBERS what padme did in TPM).

and so, he makes a motion in the senate, to accept the Grand Army of the republic
(note: same words used to describe the 'gungan army' in tPM).



---> the purpose of TPM was to show us the logic which would ultimately lead to the Empire..
AND..
to make the audience sympathize with this logic, BECAUSE it came from a sympathetic character. (padme).



----> the Empire was Padme's idea. this is why TPM existed.
(most people think it was unrelated to the rest of the trilogy)

it's actually the most important film in the trilogy:

it gives us the rationale for "Militarization of an unarmed society"

it explains the rationale for creating the Empire ..AND.. makes us agree with it(!),
BECAUSE it was Padme's idea. :confused :confused :confused

 

[Supa troop]

WOW GREAT posts their my friend, i forsee a bright future between you and the RPF

 

[Jet Beetle]

qui-gon was meant to be the seperatist leader.
but GL killed him off, in an effort to give EP1 more impact...
so he needed to create a new seperatist leader, enter:dooku. (quigon's old master)


imagine the ROTS 'scissors' scene with qui-gon instead of dooku: "Do It! Do It NOw!". (as anakin kills his old master quigon)

imagine the AOTC 'ray shield' scene with quigon&obiwan instead of dooku&obiwan:
"Join Me Obiwan, and together we will Destroy the Sith!"

I see where you're coming from but having Qui-gon go through a fall from the Jedi order would have taken away from Anakin's journey - which is basically the same thing you described. He served as a momentary framing device and IMO that's all you really needed the character for - any more and attention shifts from Obi-Wan, Padme and as i said Anakin.

And as for having Anakin cut off Qui-gon's head - a character who would by then have been with us since TPM - it would have played wayyyy too dark for a Star Wars movie. Dooku was introduced as a bad guy and ended AOTC by cutting off Anakin's arm. He was designed to die.

 

[Zykotec]

qui-gon was meant to be the seperatist leader.
but GL killed him off, etc... another great post that explains the prequel trilogy

I love this. Tbh, the first time I saw TPM, i hated it, apart from the pod-racing. And TCW, I fell asleep watching it. But years later, watching the whole series with my daughter, while trying to explain parts of it for her it occured to me that it's a great Trilogy, hurt by a few mis-castings and some flawed cgi. And the 'last' one (ROTS) really gave it all a hart-crunching meaning. I don't care much if Anakin was born directly out of the force, or if the force somehow 'made it happen' by 'natural means' (palpatine or qui-gon?). It was the force who did it to bring balance, and I guess letting Anakin have two children, one girl and one boy, may have been part of the same plan.

 

[terryr]

Have you seen the latest cartoon episodes? Anakin land on a planet high in the force, and the 'caretaker' asks Anakin to replace him and says if he leaves the universe will suffer. And he leaves.
So he didn't follow his destiny. I would guess the story was GL approved.

 

[Cobalt60]

yeah. the caretaker's son shows anakin a vision of the future, (anakin killing younglings),
and anakin turns to the dark side in order to prevent it.

but in the end, the caretaker wipes anakin's memory of this vision .. SO THAT anakin will fulfill his destiny and kill the younglings.

he says its the only way to bring balance to the force. (implying that the jedi order must be destroyed, in order to bring balance).

this is because the jedi order are not following the will of the force anymore..
they are following the will of the people via democracy.

and the will of the people has been corrupted by the politics of Fear,
until it matches the will of the sith lord.
--> which means the jedi are following the will of the sith lord. (IMBALANCE!)

(see previous post).

the Jedi Order, being created to serve the senate, was the very mechanism by which the sith took over the galaxy.
(the sith need only control the senate, to control the jedi -- to control both sides of the force)

Balance was restored when the Jedi were no longer sworn to the will of the Senate, over the will of the Force:
when the 'very mechanism' which allowed this to happen, was dismantled.

Balance was restored when (a) the jedi order was destroyed in ep3, when (b) the senate was abolished in ep4,
and when (c ) the sith were finally destroyed in ep6. ((when Luke is free, to follow the will of the force)).

--> anakin was spawned BY the Force .. to destroy the Jedi Order and kill off all its younglings.
(THIS is the ONLY way, for The Force, to restore its own balance).

in the end, the caretaker ensures that anakin WILL leave the planet, destroy the jedi, and kill the younglings.

he aknowledges that this is anakin's true destiny. :/

 

[SARKLEGACY]

as most mightve explained it was probubly darth plagues the wise who "created" anikin by trying to do his "life creation" thing and just tried to see the powers procees so in a long story short no palpatine knew the "father" of anikin (being that palpatine studied under plageus)

 

[LeelooMinai]

I'm not sure I have anything to add to this discussion that hasn't already been said, however, I quit reading the EU books at "I, Jedi". I know the PT books have a little bit more information in them which makes some things clearer, but the only one I have read so far is TPM and that was waaaay back in 1999.

I got the impression from RotS too that Palpatine planted the idea that Anakin could have been "made" via midichlorian intervention, but as I haven't read any of the books past RotS I can't say which way my opinion might be swayed knowing anything different. I just know it used to be that the books were not considered canon (except for Coruscant and possibly Mara Jade as Skywalker's bride), so I probably wouldn't take any of the EU as canon either...But that's just me.

Also, I thoroughly enjoyed RotS myself, so you won't find any hate here. AotC, on the other hand....:angry

 

[jediezekiel]

So, looking at it like that, he probably went to Tatoonie, knocked up Shmi and then Jedi-mind-trick on her and then headed back so that not only he could have a heir and an future Sith apprentice, but not have to worry about anyone in the council finding out about it.

That Jedi Mind Trick saved him a bunch of child support!:lol

My thoughts on the topic of the thread are that is was a Virgin Birth.
Now I still have mixed thoughts on how? MidiChlorians? Sidi? That is what Shmi called him when they would take long walks on in the sandy' beaches of the dune sea!! Jokes aside, Plagius no, his time was up and Palpi was to smart, I think he may have really stole Shmi from him , had a affair and to Avoid the press getting involved he had some goons cover it all up, bury the body (plagy boy) in a sandy grave, and like I said used the Jedi mind trick to avoid child support. Later on found out that Quigon had learned to communicate through the force and had talked to Shmi, she confessed, so Palpi had her wacked :lol Hard to stay away from the jokes on this subject as some parts of the PT were just total jokes! But I liked something in all of them. I was lucky enough to see the OT in the theaters as a kid, so even though I wanted to shoot myself after 2 minutes of Jar Jar, the pod racing scene made up for it. AOTC, well I actually loved it, and hated it. Was so greatful for a little less jar jar, and loved the Bounty Hunters, and Ani's lightsaber, in my eyes is the best of all the sabers, PT and OT. That's just me though. Now, ROTS almost did it, Lucas almost pulled it off, but then I think him and Jar Jar had a few drinks and wrote the dialouge. The Battle of Hero's was priceless, so I would have to say that was my Fav of the PT. Im glad this is still an unanswered topic though. Maybe for 7, 8, 9 the truth will be told. Guess we'll have to wait and see! Wonder what his child support payments would have been, though? That's why he was in a hurry to take over the senate, and he knew if he stood trial it would come out that he was Ani's dad, and by then he would have owed a lot of back child support! I love this thread. Read every post, great one, very deep conversations, so I had to throw in funny one!
MTFBWY

 

[Hecubus114]

Lucas is far past "implying" anything - if he was his father someone would have flat out said it.

 

[clancampbell]

No, he's not his Father....doesn't even look like him!

Rich

 

[The Rock-a-who]

I seem to remember an interview with GL shortly after Ep1 came out addressing a number of 'problems' people had with the movie (Jar Jar - stereotype; Anakin - the messiah, etc) and Lucas said about the virgin birth something to the effect of there are a number of myths where the hero was immaculately conceived - not just Christianity.

I know he's a HUGE buff for mythology and reads about it a lot, so my guess is - this is one of the times where it is what it is, a virgin birth.

 

[Krull]

Wanna know my take? JEDI SUCK! :lol I always had problems with them and all the crap they espouse from the first three films,and when I watched the new three all I can note is the only thing they accomplished is getting their heads in a noose really well.

Sith are a bit better,only problem is they tend to be power mad little psychos.


After all these years I find I prefer what the SW cannon calls "gray Jedi" or one who uses both the light and dark side equally-that's real life,it ain't all nice.

I hope if we get more SW we leave the last six behind and ether get a series that takes place far before or long after the six,with a gray Jedi as the lead :thumbsup

 

[CB2001]

Sith are a bit better,only problem is they tend to be power mad little psychos.

That and they've got a good tactic at getting more people on their side.

 

[Krull]

:lol Yea who doesn't like cookies??

 

[dcv]

Lucas puts alot of personal things in Star Wars, so the virgin birth thing was either grabbed from mythology, like alot of other things, or he reflected it because he was sterile.

I never really cared for the explanation of things in the prequels, most of it didn't really mesh with the OT story or style for me...from the 2 times i've seen ROTS, I got the impression Plaguis used the force, and Anakin spawned up because of it...too fan fiction like for my taste...just like the midiclorians thing (however it's spelled).

 

[Egon Spengler]

The constant effort to make everything related... makes things more retarded. Soon we'll learn that Chewbacca is in fact Yoda's long lost love child or some crap like that.

QFT as they say.

 

[CB2001]

I would not be surprised if the next DVD/Blu-Ray/Whatever new format is released has this scene:

INT.: Shmi Skywalker's Hut

Palpatine is pulling up his pants and doing up his belt. Shmi sits in bed.

Shmi: Now that that we've shagged, are you going to keep your promise to take me away from Tatooine?

Palpatine turns around and waves his hand, using the Jedi mind trick.

Palpatine: I am not your baby's daddy.

Shmi: (in a trance) You are not my baby's daddy.

Palpatine: You have never seen me before.

Shmi: I have never seen you before.

Palpatine: There is no father for your unborn child.

Shmi: There is no father for my unborn child.

Palpatine: Move along.

Shmi: Move along! Move along!


Just kidding, of course. This kind of scene would just be wrong and I bet Lucas would drive away even more fans for including such a scene. But then again, I'm surprised there's any SW fans left with all the freakin' changes he's made to the films over the years.

 

[Cobalt60]

I see where you're coming from but having Qui-gon go through a fall from the Jedi order would have taken away from Anakin's journey - which is basically the same thing you described. He served as a momentary framing device and IMO that's all you really needed the character for - any more and attention shifts from Obi-Wan, Padme and as i said Anakin.

And as for having Anakin cut off Qui-gon's head - a character who would by then have been with us since TPM - it would have played wayyyy too dark for a Star Wars movie. Dooku was introduced as a bad guy and ended AOTC by cutting off Anakin's arm. He was designed to die.

yeah. after a bit more thought, I don't think quigon-as-separatist-leader would have worked.

just as jar jar showed us what a slippery slope padme's Militarization stance was from TPM,
when he used padme's idea from TPM to Militarize the entire galaxy..

(ie: padme used the 'grand army' of the gungans to save the day;
jar ajr used the 'grand army' of the republic to save the day,
after considering "what would amidala do?")

..DOOKU showed us what a slippery slope "qui-gon's defiance" was from TPM,
when he used this position to start the separatist movement.



in a way, the entire conflict which consumed the galaxy came from inside the jedi order,
as "Qui-gon's Defiance" spilled out into the galaxy via Dooku..
..in the same way that padme's "Militarization of Naboo" spilled out into the republic via jar jar.

jar jar was padme's foil (taking her position to Unwanted Extremes),
just as dooku was quigon's foil (taking "quigon's Defiance" to unwanted extremes).

so in the end of III, what we have is: separatist vs republic ; "quigon's-slippery-slope" vs "padme's-slippery-slope".
and anakin must choose.

(figuratively, he's choosing padme over quigon --
-- but these positions are so far askew from what padme and quigon wanted, (via dooku and jar jar),
that, in choosing padme.. he loses her)

this wouldn't have worked with qui-gon-as-seperatist-leader. you need dooku to illustrate the slippery slope. :cool
(and jar jar to illustrate the other one) :unsure