Is Palpatine Anakin Skywalker's father?

[thegreatgalling]

Right, but we were discussing how it was lame to include the droids in the prequel and make them seem more important than they may have been originally intended by connecting them. But were they? They are just as "insignigicant" in the PT as the OT, and maybe more so. In fact, if the PTs were anchored by the Droids presence a bit more, I think they would have seemed a little more like the OT. At the very most, the PT provided a plausible way for the droids to get where we first see them in ANH. Maybe a little corny, but I didn't mind it.

I don't think we're too far apart in our reasoning TMG, I think you're saying there significant because of their insignificance.

 

[Solo4114]

It's really a question of when you introduce them and the role they play at that point.

If you "reboot" the series and have TPM as the "first" film, then the way they're introduced is fine. But that's not how the films were done. The OT was where they were originally introduced and where their characters first developed. Same with the rest of the Star Wars characters. Everyone in the original films, with the exception of the Imperial characters and Princess Leia, and MAYBE Obi-Wan, were pretty much just otherwise insignificant people in the galaxy. It's part of what makes the story accessible -- these are regular folks who rise to greatness. People who all "didn't know they had it in 'em," including Luke -- the farm boy who turns out to be the last (or, I guess, one of the last) of a long-dead group of super-powered warrior-monks.

The prequels, essentially, undermine all of that. They "reintroduce" R2 as -- again -- an otherwise insignificant automaton who happens to be the one droid that didn't get hit by laser fire. 3PO is handled even worse. He's actually THE CREATION OF the central villain of the OT. That MAKES him important right there. Chewbacca's cameo shows that he wasn't just some wookiee living his life, but was already a war hero. I mean, showing Bail Organa, Mon Mothma, a glimpse of Tarkin, etc., those cameos make sense. These are the movers and shakers of the galaxy, but whereas Chewie was just the shaggy co-pilot of a smuggler, NOW he's that PLUS a war hero who also SAVED Yoda -- one of the most important figures in the galaxy.

Well. What a coinkydink.


I mean, I could go on here about the unevenness of focus in the PT, but it's not really the point. With respect to the "little people" from the OT turning out to not be so little after all, it's just another example of Lucas' inelegant way of meshing the PT with the OT.

BUT, to tie this back to the original focus of this thread...it's another example of how everything is an "incredible coincidence" in the Star Wars universe, almost to the point where you'd think some meddlesome god was involved...

 

[Too Much Garlic]

BUT, to tie this back to the original focus of this thread...it's another example of how everything is an "incredible coincidence" in the Star Wars universe, almost to the point where you'd think some meddlesome god was involved...

Or just Palpatine... :rolleyes

 

[thegreatgalling]

I def. like reading your comments Solo (you too Garlic), it's interesting to get another prospective. I just WANT to like the PT, so their might be a bit of denial going on, although I really did enjoy EP 3.

 

[CessnaDriver]

When Yoda said, there is another... Sky.. walk.... eerrrrrrr ahhhhhh. Poof!

Can we really say it wasn't 3P0?

 

[Shade88]

Or maybe Lucas just wanted to throw in his version of the birth of ***** ****** into his "Star Wars" mythology and thought that this was an acceptable attempt.

Yes.:lol

The prequels were horribly written wastes of time, (My opinion.) and I really am jealous of those who got to see the all of the original trilogy as they came out. I would have loved to be there... All I got instead for my first Star Wars movie in theatres was TPM... Ugh.:cry

Seriously the only thing I liked in all of the prequels was the Obi-Anakin fight. (Minus most of the dialogue...):angel

 

[KenKenobi2]

The Jedi Mind Trick theory works best, I think.

Let's face it, if you can dupe a Galaxy, why can't you mind wipe a single woman after an....encounter with her if you are a sith lord. In fact, it makes Palpy and even BIGGER heel since he'd have begun his reign of terror with stalking and sexual assault.

KK2

 

[CB2001]

The Jedi Mind Trick theory works best, I think.

I agree. I mean, why would Palpatine need to manipulate the Force to get a "virgin birth", when all he'd have to do is tap it, and then wave his had in front of Shmi and say, "I'm not your baby's daddy... In fact, there is no baby's daddy!"?

 

[CTF]

The guy manipulated others into making him an army. Yet he couldn't get some lady to carry his kid? I mean, c'mon, there are some hot blue-headed chicks in his part o' the galaxy, I'm sure. No offense to Ani's mom.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

The guy manipulated others into making him an army. Yet he couldn't get some lady to carry his kid? I mean, c'mon, there are some hot blue-headed chicks in his part o' the galaxy, I'm sure. No offense to Ani's mom.

Love works in mysterious ways... and then he got tired of her, dumped her, had her killed and stole her child. Way to go to make it dark, George. :rolleyes

 

[terryr]

But why her? If Palpatine wanted a son he could have had thousands of women impregnated by many means. He could have himself cloned by the Cloners. Why her? Some nothing out in the sticks. It's like Clinton going to the Australian outback to get laid.

But if it was maybe he told him one day and Vader went 'NOOOOOO!!! That's impossi... Actually that makes sense.'

He was Vaders Father. He created him.

 

[CessnaDriver]

He's his own granpa.


Lucas is all about myth and fairy tales.
That is the heart of Star Wars.

It's a virgin birth.

 

[CB2001]

But why her? If Palpatine wanted a son he could have had thousands of women impregnated by many means. He could have himself cloned by the Cloners. Why her? Some nothing out in the sticks. It's like Clinton going to the Australian outback to get laid.

The thing is this: Do we really know anything about the politics of the Council? Maybe it's frowned upon for a single guy to just get his groove on with a woman unless they're married in the point of view of the politics. The funny thing is this: If Clinton had went to Australian outback to get laid, we'd least likely would have heard about it unless she came forward. So, looking at it like that, he probably went to Tatoonie, knocked up Shmi and then Jedi-mind-trick on her and then headed back so that not only he could have a heir and an future Sith apprentice, but not have to worry about anyone in the council finding out about it.

 

[terryr]

Yeah well, I bet it's frowned upon secretly trying to take over and become Emperor as well. He didn't seem to let that bother him.

So why not cloning? Get a docile clone that had his powers but no will.

Of course you could say Shmi was on a different planet, got pregnant, and was shipped off to slavery.
That does sound like the Emperor. An abortion? No that would kill his child. His ego wouldn't allow it. Keep her around? Just a big nuisance. Ship her off, destroy her life, and let the kid toughen up on a hostile planet. YEP.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Too lame.

 

[Cobalt60]

the answer you seek, is in the prophecy of the chosen one.





follow:

the jedi caused imbalance in the force, when the Jedi Order was created, as an arm of the galactic senate.
from this moment, the jedi stopped following the will of the force. they followed the will of the people.

they defined "Good" as the Common Good (as per the opera scene in EP3), and anything 'selfish' as "Evil".
they swore to uphold the "will of the people" through democracy and the galactic senate....

(( note: eventually, the will of the people was corrupted by politics until it matched the 'selfish' will of the Sith Lord;
the jedi found themselves using the force to fight a never-ending war for national security, driven by the people's Fear.
they were "using the force" AGAINST ITS WILL -- this causes imbalance in the force ))

....and the Force responded, by spawning its Chosen One, to wipe out ALL force users who were NOT following the will of the force.
Jedi AND sith, alike.

((the jedi were doomed by their connection to the galactic senate -- which was introduced as "corrupt" in TPM --
they should NEVER have allowed this corrupt body to "guide their actions"))




only qui-gon used the force to enact the will of the force, even when it went against the council (and the senate).
he did not define "good" as the Common Good, as determined by popular vote.
he allowed a higher power to define his concept of "Good", and he was rewarded with Immortality.

in the end, the only one left is Luke, who was taught "let go your conscious self" and "let the force guide your actions".
this is a FAR CRY from the prequel jedis "..we will do EXACTLY as the council has instructed".

the message of SW is not "good" vs "evil", but rather, dynamic morality vs static morality:
if we allow Morality to change according to politics, then eventually good becomes evil.
(its a cautionary tale, re: separation of church and state)




the Jedi Order, being created to serve the senate, was the very mechanism by which the sith took over the galaxy.
(the sith need only control the senate, to control the jedi -- to control both sides of the force)

Balance was restored when the Jedi were no longer sworn to the will of the Senate, over the will of the Force:
when the 'very mechanism' which allowed this to happen, was dismantled.

Balance was restored when (a) the jedi order was destroyed in ep3, when (b) the senate was abolished in ep4,
and when (c ) the sith were finally destroyed in ep6. ((when Luke is free, to follow the will of the force)).

--> anakin was spawned BY the Force .. to destroy the Jedi Order and kill off all its younglings.
(THIS is the ONLY way, for The Force, to restore its own balance).


-========================-


short answer: "Teh FORCE" is anakin's daddy.

he was spawned BY the force, to "...end the destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy".

(to wipe out the JEdi, abolish the senate .. and destroy the sith)

 

[Cobalt60]

re: midichlorians.

everyone hates midichlorians because (they say) it changed the force,
from something Spirtual, to something Genetic.



point: the force ceased to be a mystical and spiritual force...
...when the hereditary aspect was introduced in ROTJ.

"my father has it.. I have it.. my sister has it"

(...when george took full creative control of a franchise which he didn't fully create)
(I'm not sure he really understood the implications of introducing a hereditary aspect -- he just wanted han to get the girl)




midichlorians were the ONLY way to have an Hereditary component to the force..
WITHOUT relying on the DNA of the actual force-user.

this maintains the spiritual aspect of the force, while still explaining how luke and leia could have "inherited" it, like a mutant gene.

(ie: if it was simply a mutant gene, then they would be X-MEN not Jedi;
and if it were simply a spiritual life-force, then there's no way it can be passed from father-to-son, like genetic material)

enter: midichlorians




---> midichlorians didn't change the force from a mystical/spiritual life-force,
to a genetic/biological disease -- ROTJ did that on its own, some ~20 years before we heard the WORD 'midichlorian'.

('midichlorians' was simply the only explanation that fit, with the mistakes of ROTJ)

(the only way to explain a hereditary aspect of the force,
while still maintaining a spiritual connection to the actual force-user)

(the only way, for a careless writer, to have his cake and eat it too)

 

[Spoddy]

...he allowed a higher power to define his concept of "Good", and he was rewarded with Immortality. ...

And the first thing he did was spill the beans to Yoda, who then yapped his mouth... Sheesh.. can't trust anyone these days!! :lol

 

[thegreatgalling]

That def got my gears going Cobalt, GREAT posts.

My only issue is that I'd hate to think the force would will the death of so many.

 

[Jet Beetle]

I'd always wished TPM would have taken the route that the Sith were rounding up new forces, searching the galaxy for those who had the force but were untrained - Anakin would be a great addition to their revolt against the Jedi - but, Qui-gon goes to Tatooine to get to Anakin before the Sith. Anakin is secretly Qui-gon's son - but he never revealed it because he (like Anakin one day) had a secret love affair with Shimi and she never wanted her son to leave her. But now that there is a threat, the safest place for him to be would be with the Jedi. Qui-Gon dies in EP1 anyway, might as well have his character contribute something lasting to the trilogy. This also would explain why Qui was sooo determined for Anakin to become a Jedi and leaves him in the care of Obi Wan.

Not that this is the greatest form of storytelling but it would have given some definition to the whole Jedi are forbidden to love or take a mate. The ramifications of breaking this rule would take shape in Anakin's outcome.