is it possible to upscale a general model kit?

Discussion in 'General Modeling' started by agliarept, Aug 9, 2015.

  1. agliarept

    agliarept Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    hi

    I'ts been my dream to build a large model of the lost in Space robot movie kit since seeing the film.

    my question is this, is it possible to take the model kit and somehow upscale the pieces say 100% larger using 3d printing? This would be a 1 off project i'd like to have done but not sure if its even possible. have any of you modelers ever done something like this?

    being a personal 1 off, not for sale project, is it something the community has seen done?
     
  2. IEDBOUNTYHUNTER

    IEDBOUNTYHUNTER Sr Member

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    It is possible. But to upscale the parts they first have to be drawn out in a CAD program. Then you can scale it to any size you want. But then you still have to have it printed. Alot of work if youve never done it before. Not to mention alot of money.
     
  3. minifig

    minifig Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The act of getting an existing kit and rescaling it would still be in breach of copyright, as I would expect the only real way of doing it would be to get the components scanned.

    Re-sculpting the model digitally is a different matter I think (provided the design isn't copyrighted), and would probably be less of an issue, though obviously more work for you.

    But I am not a lawyer...

    M
     
  4. agliarept

    agliarept Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    thanks for the great feeback guys. sounds like i have a lot more researching to do in order make my dream robot build.
     
  5. IEDBOUNTYHUNTER

    IEDBOUNTYHUNTER Sr Member

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    If it were a breach of contract this whole site would be shut down. last time i looked we all build things. I would nt buy a kit and cast it and sell it as your own. thats a No No. but using a kit to design your own upscaled version. i dont think theres anything wrong with that. stealing and recasting is what everyone has a problem with. we all use reference. i bought a battle ship kit and chopped the hull to upscale a model i was doing.

    So moral of the story. dont recast. dont steal. but lets see where this goes. im sure there will be more Opinions
     
  6. darth_myeek

    darth_myeek Sr Member

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    +1 for going for it.

    I am not sure how the detail bits will scale up visually so test!
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2015
  7. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    Often, kit makers will incorporate a minor 'flaw' or inaccuracy simply to provide evidence of direct copying of their products. Usually it is something that would be found if independent research & design was being done. That said, the state of the art in replication tech is such that the whole 'copyright infringement' or just pure 'intellectual theft' is only going to get worse. However, in this particular situation where you are using a kit as 'reference' to create your own work for your own use (and not for a commercial effort) then there should be no issue. After all, the maker would likely rather you buy one of their kits to use than not.

    The crux of all this hoo-yaa is whether you are going to be profiting financially from someone else' work, or otherwise not providing credit where it is due. IN short, don't steal someone's fame & fortune!

    One technical issue that bears on this question is whether you could actually scan directly from a smaller component and have it perform appropriately in a larger size. Some changes to the result would normally be required just to address fabrication issues that are size-dependent (wall thickness of injection molded components is a case in point.) With 3D printing, material usage concerns are particularly pertinent. Also, parts breakdown may be less efficient when changing over from one media to another: so the sage advice already given to create your own 'masters' using the original for reference would be the best (and probably most satisfying) method.

    Sometimes it is best to ask permission first in any case...

    Regards, Robert
     
  8. agliarept

    agliarept Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    cheers guys!

    just to re interate, i have no intention on profiting on this. I simply want to build a larger version of the robot for myself for display. Being an artists myself, i can't sell somebody else's work.
     
  9. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    Yeah, that was my impression. I've done some builds using smaller kits as '3D' references myself. If it were me, I'd simply scratch-build it. It really is easier than you'd think. Granted, the 2002(?) movie robot is quite complex but seems a lot of details are repetitive (like the track components) so candidates for casting from single masters. Definitely would be a challenge, though.
    R/ Robert
     
  10. d_jedi1

    d_jedi1 Sr Member

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    Years ago, I drew up plans for a 1:350 TOS Enterprise based upon upscaled measurements of the 1:1000 kit. At the time, the plan was that My father and I would use various materials and skills to translate my plans into an actual model.
    We never got further than the plans but when the 1:350th kit came out, I pulled out my plans and compared. Aside from a few minor differences, it was shockingly close.
     
  11. kruleworld

    kruleworld Well-Known Member

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    I'd suggest joining the groups that build 1:1 LIS robots. i'm sure they will have more specific ideas on the best ways to achieve what you want. (eg parts suppliers)
    www.b9robotbuildersclub.com
    they probably mostly do the old version, but i'm sure someone's considered building movie version.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2015
  12. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    I don't know, KW - the OLIS fans are kinda purists in general; many view the modern movie 'version' with derision. Plus, building a 1:1 of the 'new' Robot would be a trick...
    R/ Robert
     
  13. Galactican

    Galactican Well-Known Member

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    I fully agree. That would also open the door for improvements because you could put much more detail into the build and prevent crude details which would make everything look like a toy (a blunt edge does not get sharper after enlarging). In addition, you are able to correct any flaws in the original kit.
     
  14. agliarept

    agliarept Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    good advice, i think i am going to plan it out and do it by hand. i agree it will be a lot more fun to do it by myself. :)
     
  15. jarroth

    jarroth Well-Known Member

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    i swear it was me who invented the wheel. hand on bible. only found out later someone else had, before me.

    i think no company would have a problem if you buy one of thier items and upscale it to make a larger copy for yourself.
    problems WILL arise if you start selling them commercialy.
     
  16. minifig

    minifig Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I have to disagree jarroth, I think a lot of companies would have a problem, but it all depends on how that 'up-scaling' was done.

    In my eyes scanning a model is just mouldmaking/casting, and changing the scale is no real arguement in a 'but its not the same' situation (after all, if i remould and recast any kit, it's not going to be exactly the same size...thank you shrinkage).

    Using the kit as reference is probably a bit of a greyer area ( the company might lay claim to the design of the KIT as well as the final model's aesthetic).

    I do understand COMPLETELY that we are not talking about this project being offered for sale, but that doesn't really change the morals behind copyright infringement. It does mean that it shouldn't be frowned upon as a 'recasting' issue though.

    All that being said, I still think agliarept should go ahead with the project, especially if your planning on making drawings and building it from scratch. Being part of this forum I think anyone who has scratchbuilt anything (myself included) is probably in breech of copyright...

    ...technically...

    Minifig
     
  17. TazMan2000

    TazMan2000 Sr Member

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    I'm just being the devil's advocate here, but technically, most of us are recasters.How many of us have recast a part out of a model kit to replicate it? Its only a part of the whole model, but each piece was engineered by one or more people. So each piece can be viewed as a piece of art. Its an issue of degree. The person who does this, and profits from it is much worse than a person who casts and incorporates kit parts into their models. Just because you mistakenly take a pen from the bank, it doesn't make you a bank robber,...but "technically"...you are.

    However, at some point everyone gets tired of looking at their creation, and might decide to sell it. If so, does that make it wrong because they are profitting from it?

    :lol:facepalm

    TazMan2000
     
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  18. jarroth

    jarroth Well-Known Member

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    that would mean a shedlaod of lawsuits against most of the modelbuilders. even if they dont realy like it, there aint much to do against hobby modelers. all the replica builders of delorean time machines, general lee chargers, enterpise builders and so on. ow, bet Disney will love all the han solo blasters and ligtsabers :p
    before interweb i made different sorts of lighfixtures out of car an bike parts. (still make them even) never thought anything about it. than internet came on and i posted pics. some company i never heard of or seen work of started claiming i copied their designs, wich arent even for sale in europe. they threatend me with lawsuit, i dared them. well he did try to but it never got into any court.
    its illegal to copy DVDs/Blurays, but perfectly legal to make one copy to watch at home. kinda same thing to me

    so they might dont like it but what can they do?
     
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  19. batguy

    batguy Sr Member

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    As if there is any difference in principle between copying a prop, versus copying a product? A prop is just a product they never sold to the public. The IP is still owned.
     
  20. asalaw

    asalaw Sr Member

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    Legally, there's no difference between scanning a model and re-sculpting it digitally or otherwise. How you make a copy is irrelevant. What's relevant is whether your resulting copy is "substantially similar" to the original protected work.

    Having said that, I'd be astonished -- nay, stunned and agape, even -- if you got into trouble for one-offing a kit for your collection, regardless of how you did it. Yes, it's technically infringing, but I've never, ever heard of copies for personal use being litigated. This entire forum is a Mecca for people making one-offs for personal use. In fact, it's arguably fair use. Of course, by "arguably," I mean "you get to argue that in court, or rather the lawyers you're paying thousands of dollars to get to argue it."

    I should add that none of this should be construed as legal advice for any particular case. You rely on the above at your own risk. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
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  21. JediMichael

    JediMichael Sr Member

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    With all this legal talk going on, wondering about this. Say someone builds a scratch built star destroyer and sells it. Would then ILM/Lucasfilm be able to sue you if they wanted being their original design? Also saying you used photos from the real models themselves.
    I wonder this because how many people make star destroyers....a whole lot, even if not for profit.
     
  22. minifig

    minifig Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The crux of it is, I guess, that yes... Disney could take you to court for copying their design, but it is very unlikely that they would. The act of selling stuff for a lot of profit is what they would be interested in, as I would think that all they would be interested in is claiming for damages. So although you are infringing on copyright, the chances that you were actually damaging the company by scratchbuilding a model as a hobby would be slim.

    M
     

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