Interesting article on new xbox

Why Sony did the opposite of Microsoft on used games

Sony Computer Entertainment of America CEO Jack Tretton explains why he thinks the company's new policy on used games is a winner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVYv6hr-CTs

I watch the way this man speaks and presents himself and do not get a used car salesman vibe from him.

Al
 
One of the pro microsoft financial groups on yahoo were talking about the DRM stuff for the ps4 but they acted like it's all new. It's the same as it's been with the ps3, if someone company wants to charge you to reactivate a game or something it's up to them not sony. Sony knows how to keep customers happy.
 
For some reason, Microsoft (and its most vocal supporters) seem oblivious to this simple fact.

Like I said - right up to and past point of sale. THEN the bleating will begin. :lol

I expect a rather high percentage of MS's customers this holiday season aren't going to understand how this works. Initial sales will be high, but I predict a HUGE number of returns within the first two or three months because people take the thing home only to find out that it doesn't work.

Which is why I'd really, really hate to work for their complaints unit right now. It is going to be hell. I know what it feels like to run a release where your customers fail to read the key details properly. It's sheer pain for everybody involved. You've met your legal obligations and strictly speaking the customer has no rights or recourse - but did you meet those obligations sufficiently well to pass a test of reasonableness in court? Etc.

That's just the online requirement we're talking about.. shall we discuss the Kinect and used-game situation as well?

Everything about this reeks of people trying to make 'brave' decisions. :lol ('Yes Minister'-speak for a bold decision that will **** off everyone and eventually be backed away from.)
 
My friend went to walmart and they tried to get her to preorder one of these yet they didn't offer it for the ps4 so either sony won't let them do preorders or they got a deal with MS. The launch version of the ps4 is already sold out on amazon, not sure what the difference is it's the same price either way.
 
Microsoft: PS4 won't make us 'change anything we've done with Xbox One' |

I have to agree with the article author. If MS were to change their policy, they wouldn't do it until closer to the launch date or after and they would never admit to Sony having any influence on it. I know MS is known for some bonehead moves but the Xbox and the rest of their gaming division makes up a significant portion of the money they bring in. It might even be bigger than Windows but i'm not sure. I can't see them purposely trying to tank the Xbox and i'm sure the execs and board members are freaking out over all this. I mean they obviously will take a hit on console sales but its the games and whatnot where they make their money but if they don't sell many consoles, they won't sell very many games. I'm thinking it's inevitable that they will change their policies regarding several things, but they don't want to change them right now because if they did, everyone would just say its because of the PS4 (which it obviously is) and appear even more weak.

Just a matter of time really.

Even the programmer guy in the other article I posted said he believe it will only be a matter of time as well.
 
I know you have to subscribe to PS+ in order to play multiplayer on the PS4 but I have absolutely no problem of doing so because of how the service is run.

AND you get free games for the PS4 :D

I just read an article on Forbes that has a source claiming the PS4 is outselling the XB1 two to one on Amazon, but it was not confirmed by Amazon.

PS4 is also outselling ten to one somewhere, forgot where they posted it

Sony knows how to keep customers

Could just end it right there ;)
oh and they easily gain new customers, but that's most thanks to Microsoft new way of doing business: ALIENATE EVERYONE, as fast as humanly possible!!!!!!!!!

I've heard reports that Steam has a kill switch type of program that in the event of Steam's ultimate demise you can continue to play the content you've downloaded.

You can already use Steam offline

Which means more xbox live, which means servers are still up

Uh no, since for example games like Halo 2 are very playbale on 360, except they took down those servers years ago, even though people still played the game.

eventually go away for this thing in 10-15 years

Not even close, unfortunately

There will be little tiny text at the bottom of the TV commercial that says "internet connection required", that will serve the legal (but not practical) purpose of notifying their customers of what their getting.

That's just the online requirement we're talking about.. shall we discuss the Kinect and used-game situation as well?

LOL so small people with SD-tvs won't be able to make out, same type of tv the xbone doesn't even support

Could talk about 80% of the features that won't be able at launch world wide(minus Africa. oh and Asia and a FEW other countries as well :facepalm), and if that article was real.. only 21 states :lol :facepalm
 
like that "unofficial" interview claiming that the download only game deal is meant to avoid finding the game your brother didnt put back where he was supposed to, what a crock.
 
As to used games, if someone buys a game they should be able to do whatever they want with it. Sell it, loan it, or give it away.

If I buy a car...

...then you're making an incorrect analogy.

This is the problem with the used game debate, and is a BIG reason why entertainment producers are shifting towards -- and will continue to shift towards -- a streaming-based approach to content delivery. It won't happen overnight, but in the next 10-20 years or so, your content will NOT arrive on physical media like discs.

Why? Simple. When you have a disc, you own the disc. What you don't own is the contents OF the disc. People don't get this, however, and frequently resort to the car analogy. "If I buy a [car/house/dog/cheeseburger] I should be able to give it to whomever I want!" All of which would be perfectly accurate if ALL you're dealing with is a physical object. In fact, this still IS (mostly) accurate as long as you're still dealing with physical media AND they haven't gotten you to sign some license that waives that right. But what you're disposing of is actually two different things: the physical object, and the license to use it. You could NOT, for example, sell your book to someone and keep a photocopy of it.

What gaming companies want to do is make it clear that you are buying a license ONLY. That means you get, basically, temporary or conditional access to their game. You do NOT own it.


People thing this is an attempt to massively screw consumers (it is, to a degree), and that it's an attempt to take away some degree of ownership that always existed up to this point. It's the latter part of that which is the misconception: you don't own the game; you own the disc that the game sits on. It's not a car, and you can't do anything you want with the license you're give (particularly if the terms of that license are explicitly spelled out, you've agreed to them, and they say you can't do anything you want).

The guy actually brought up a good point regarding Steam, and that's the sales. I've got a LOT of content on Steam, and I bought almost all of it at ridiculously low prices during one of their sales. I would be VERY surprised to see Microsoft do something similar on XBL, in terms of having massive seasonal events with prices 75-90% off for major AAA titles. That's why people go to Steam, not because it's "DRM that works". DRM's an afterthought when you buy a game for five bucks.

Which is one of my points about the Steam model and potential future models for streamed/digital download games. It's ALL about the PERCEPTION of value. Value is DIRECTLY tied to DRM, in fact. You don't care about DRM that means you (1) can't trade, (2) can't loan, (3) can't sell the game...when the price point is low enough. What companies are going to be doing over the next few years (and what Steam already does) is figuring out the price points at which people will opt-in to a "no physical media" approach. Apple has done it with iTunes. Steam has done it with games. This will continue, and it will expand. Ubisoft and EA are both doing it with their native services now. I've gotten EA games directly from EA....because they made them dirt cheap and I figured "Hell, for $XYZ, who cares?" It's figuring out that "$XYZ" point that will make these kinds of systems work.

Speaking of which, Steam's Summer Sale should be starting here in a few weeks. Usually kicks off around July 4th. We can compare some of the sales to what those same games are selling for on Xbox Live. That would be a good comparison of the services that are "so much alike", shouldn't it?

Well, yes and no. I think XBL has sales from time to time, too, but not regular ones like Steam and usually not as deeply discounted. But comparing prices alone isn't really the point if the architecture of the DRM is identical. And it is, in many cases. You can put Steam into "offline" mode, though, and still (I think) play your single player games. THAT'S the biggest difference to me, not the price points. The fact that Steam has figured out an effective business model and price points at which product will move isn't really relevant for comparison to XboxOne or XBL other than to say "They give a better bargain, so I'm more willing to accept an almost identical DRM component." The value of Steam games is higher -- for you -- than the value of XBL games.

I have to agree with the article author. If MS were to change their policy, they wouldn't do it until closer to the launch date or after and they would never admit to Sony having any influence on it. I know MS is known for some bonehead moves but the Xbox and the rest of their gaming division makes up a significant portion of the money they bring in. It might even be bigger than Windows but i'm not sure. I can't see them purposely trying to tank the Xbox and i'm sure the execs and board members are freaking out over all this. I mean they obviously will take a hit on console sales but its the games and whatnot where they make their money but if they don't sell many consoles, they won't sell very many games. I'm thinking it's inevitable that they will change their policies regarding several things, but they don't want to change them right now because if they did, everyone would just say its because of the PS4 (which it obviously is) and appear even more weak.

Just a matter of time really.

Even the programmer guy in the other article I posted said he believe it will only be a matter of time as well.

Time and degrees, I'd bet. Plus you'll eventually see a PR pushback on how all of this really "isn't that bad." The real issue with this launch, as I see it, has been atrocious PR. The policies are controversial, but not insurmountably so. For example, the phrase "always on" was just idiotic to use at all, ever. Having "daily check-ins" would be bad enough, but "always on" implies that even if you checked in less than 24-hours ago, you won't be able to play your game AT ALL and the console is a brick if you don't have an internet connection 24/7. Likewise "always on" coupled with the "always on Kinect" evoked "Big Brother" fears at a time when we're seeing similar issues in the news.

I could see them doing something similar to what they did with the used game issue: kick it to the publishers, but make it clear that this is an option for them.


So, if Activision wants to release COD: Outer SPAAAAAAAAAACE, they can CHOOSE to require any level of connection they want. Constant connection, 24-hour check in, weekly check-in, one-time authentication, whatever. Or they could choose to do a "tiered" approach. You can play, say, the single player campaign, but there's additional content that unlocks for the online mode (beyond MP, I mean), or additional bonuses or whatever. But that's all up to Activision.

Likewise, if you want to get the most out of the XboxOne, you'll have a constant internet connection, but you can still do some of the stuff you want offline.


Or I could see them offer an "offline" model of the XboxOne at some point, which has dramatically diminished features, but still lets you play whatever "offline" games are created for the system.


At any rate, I agree that they'll likely have to walk this back, but the industry will shift to the streamed approach at some point. It's gonna happen. I think the real problem is that XboxOne mismanaged it's launch, and may have been a bit too ambitious in shifting things online too soon, before the market is fully ready for it.
 
They're going to have to offer some damned cheap games to make me accept DRM on a regular basis like steam. I only have a few games on there that i never play. I think MS is pushing too much too fast. Americans don't like being told that they can't own something just lease it and have to be eased into it. I agree that i get games on steam because 1) they're out of print or not compatible with the latest windows 2) they're amazingly cheap at times. I prefer the GOG system though. DRM is going to drive a huge wedge between gamers, hell you bring up DRM anywhere and it turns into a war.
 
I say people in general don't like that, they don't care, all they care about is to alienate as many as possible

Yes, I'm quite sure all the suits were sitting around a big table at the office, wringing their hands and laughing maniacally, whilst batting around news idea on how to screw you over.
 
To be fair, they want to do things that many perceive as "Screwing us over" like transitioning to a pure licensing model rather than a mixed ownership/licensing model. But I don't think they view it as "MWAHAHAHAHA!!! AND NOW TO IMPLEMENT OUR PLAN TO SCREW THE CONSUMER!!!!! I EXPECT YOU TO DIE, MR. BOND!!!"
 
I was over dramatizing for effect. Term's quotes seem to imply he's taking the whole thing a lot more personally than I'd think is warranted.

I don't think the new model is much different at all to tell you the truth.

Going back to NES days, swapping carts with a buddy was easy and legal. With Xbox One all you do is sign in at your friend's house and your whole collection is available.

The used game issue is a non issue. They are leaving it up to the dev's to implement any kind of program on that. Yes they had an abysmal PR week following the initial announcement where no one knew what the message was.

The connectivity thing is a non issue for many people and that number will continue to grow. Yes, they held up a big sign that said they don't care about your business if you don't have solid broadband. It sucks and seems like a dick move. But this is part of what they've been pushing for since the beginning. The OG xbox had an ethernet jack for ******'s sake, well before broadband was as prevalent as it is today. Yes people will get left behind and that will suck. To be honest I'm kinda surprised they're not allowing a disc in the machine to be used as verification that you are the correct owner as a way for people to avoid the 24 hour phone to home base.

As far as spying with kinect goes, I reject those ideas out of hand and won't even bother to argue about it. Suffice it to say, the hacking crowd will be all over what gets collected and sent back with that thing, I doubt very much that anyone has anything to worry about on that end.
 
I was over dramatizing for effect. Term's quotes seem to imply he's taking the whole thing a lot more personally than I'd think is warranted.

I don't think the new model is much different at all to tell you the truth.

Going back to NES days, swapping carts with a buddy was easy and legal. With Xbox One all you do is sign in at your friend's house and your whole collection is available.

The used game issue is a non issue. They are leaving it up to the dev's to implement any kind of program on that. Yes they had an abysmal PR week following the initial announcement where no one knew what the message was.

The connectivity thing is a non issue for many people and that number will continue to grow. Yes, they held up a big sign that said they don't care about your business if you don't have solid broadband. It sucks and seems like a dick move. But this is part of what they've been pushing for since the beginning. The OG xbox had an ethernet jack for ******'s sake, well before broadband was as prevalent as it is today. Yes people will get left behind and that will suck. To be honest I'm kinda surprised they're not allowing a disc in the machine to be used as verification that you are the correct owner as a way for people to avoid the 24 hour phone to home base.

As far as spying with kinect goes, I reject those ideas out of hand and won't even bother to argue about it. Suffice it to say, the hacking crowd will be all over what gets collected and sent back with that thing, I doubt very much that anyone has anything to worry about on that end.


You mark my words. when it comes to real consumer interaction and people are stuck with bricked systems due to whichever of the many reasons the XB1 will brick. You will see just how much of an issue it is. Whether its the bull crap always on kinect or the game license or the too many bodies watching for this size of a room deal. There are too many reasons not to buy it and not enough reasons to bother. Just wait until the first time the network crashes for more than 24 hrs (and it will) or when someones internet provider crashes (and they definitely will). You're going to see some serious complaining. Or what about the uninformed relative that buys one as a gift and they don't know that you MUST be connected to the internet at least once every 24 hours?? What if that poor kid has little to no internet access?? This is just the tip of the ice burg.

All of that and more will become major issues..
 
You're right, there will be lots of complaining. But the issues will be worked through, just like the red ring was. I don't expect we'll see system killing errors this time around though, just the same as we don't see sony telling people to get a second job so they can afford their new console anymore.
 
Bottom line:

MS' bad press and questionable policies will cause it some pain, but won't cause the XboxOne to be, say, the Virtual Boy of this generation.
 
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