Hero trooper helmets...Green vs smoke tinted

[bigbaddaddyvader]

I agree and the smoked lenses seemed the simpler answer without concrete proof of green. As I kept insisting for several days the known lenses had to be tested as well for that to be seriously considered as proof.

I wasn't decided one way or the other, but I'm starting to lean towards green.
If the TIEs were made a month after the Heroes it could explain a lens material change. The apparent "eye" in the TIE shot also leads me to believe the smoked might not be dark enough for closeups.
Maybe they just tinted them with some green rather than replaced the lenses. They don't look as green as the background helmets.

The Hamill comment is not a slam dunk. I know where the doubt comes from, but considering the timing of the comment (Jan '77) I think we have more reason to trust it than not.
Do we know for sure that AA did not provide the stunt lenses? What's the story there? Did he only provide shells? Did he do the deco? (tube stripes, grey paint etc.)
If the Hero lenses were not vacformed than what was the process? I would assume it still involved heating thin sheets of plastic.

BactaReality - I'd suggest you lose the attitude. It's not going to win you any friends around here.

I'm a professional that uses Photoshop every day as well. As I noted in the same scene that was analyzed over and over - the black edges of the bodysuit and the shadow side of the MG-34 also turn green when the saturation is enhanced. Other black areas move towards magenta like the brow trim. We're also looking at reflected color from the set, warm toned set lights, and an already color enhanced Hi Def print. There's a lot of color manipulation going on there. Depending on all of these factors and the slight hue to grey lenses they would also take on some other color.

For everyone who says the color is obvious I ask... What color is Han's jacket on Hoth?
After 27 years Lucasfilm can't even decide between blue or brown.

The reason LFL cant make that decision is that the ESB Han jacket is in a private collection.I've seen this in very close detail and it's brown.:thumbsup

 

[BactaReality]

So a little manipulation or a LOT of mainpulation has the same result - it brings green out in black.

Actually, there is a huge difference between minimal and maximum color enhancements. They don't produce the same results, the computer gets to a point where distortions from dark and grainy film become inaccurate when trying to push the threshold. This is not the case when using minimal color or gamma manipulation. I say manipulation for lack of a better word, because likes it's already been stated, there is actually no real manipulation, just enhancement.

 

[defstartrooper]

Well first up i for one dont dismiss MH's comment but then if you read it he doesn't say the lenses are green.
Secondly im still waiting to see this unaltered screencap which shows green lenses the one you spoke of earlier bacta i agreed looking at it appears to have a slight green hue although upon checking it doesnt actually have any green in it check it yourself.
The gamma corrected ones also show green in other areas that are black.
Who are these tons of eye witnesses then ? im guessing you mean people that watched the film ? i'm willing to wager anything you like that the majority of people that have seen star wars would say the stormtrooper eyes are black most people take no real notice of things like that i wouldn't describe someone that has watched a movie an eye witness either and should their opinion be taken as gospel without any evidence ?
I'm sorry that i am the type of person that likes to form my knowledge on fact and not belief thats why i dont go to church on a weekend if that makes me sad in your eyes thats fine.
Lastly im still open to the bubble lenses being green i just want something that shows it conclusively

 

[BactaReality]

i agreed looking at it appears to have a slight green hue although upon checking it doesnt actually have any green in it check it yourself.

Ya, but if you admit yourself that these lenses have a green hue, then why would you need to check anything? Secondly, the color picker isn't exactly the most accurate tool, and for that reason alone, I can easily dismiss that method of confirmation.


Here's another pic, only this time, we just adjust the brightness a little, and lookiee what we have here.



Unless for some strange reason you think adjusting a picture's brightness changes it's color, it's.. still... green.

 

[lonepigeon]

Not even the same film, let alone same prop item. You're really reaching on this one, as it seems you're really just trying to cloud the issue with a whole other debate.

You're missing the point. They were trying to determine the color of a prop item by it's appearance in film because they did not have the prop in hand. They flipped flopped back and forth a few times. Lucasfilm even went back and recolored all photo stills to enhance the brown. Last I recall the Han Hoth action figure was produced in two colors so the fans could choose.

I really don't think any of you guys are bothering to actually watch any footage. Sad, really.

These type of condescending remarks is what I mean by your attitude.
I've been researching props for 10 years and I've been working with Lucasfilm professionally on Star Wars products for 12 years. I'm no newbie.
BingoBongo has probably held more real helmets than most of us and spoken with the people involved in making on several occasions.

The Photoshop color picker is extremely accurate if you know how to read it. Much more accurate than just eyeballing it. There is a slight green hue on the Hero lenses, the picker confirms it. It's not as evident as the background helmets, but I do see it. I'm just not that quick to consider it solved for certain because I've seen ideas overturned too many times over the years. Gino himself even admitted he's changed his mind on the color several times and he knows the trooper helmets extremely well.

I am leaning towards green now, but I'm far from 100%.
I also don't think it's the same shade of green as the stunts (less saturated and darker if I based my opinion solely on the screencaps).

 

[GINO]

That's correct Chris, the green color of the hero's bubble lenses is a much darker green than the thin flat lense for the background helmets.

 

[GINO]

Also, just as a side note. Snowtroopers had flat green lens in their masks too.:thumbsup
I know that has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but just wanted to share anyway.

 

[BactaReality]

You're missing the point. They were trying to determine the color of a prop item by it's appearance in film because they did not have the prop in hand. They flipped flopped back and forth a few times. Lucasfilm even went back and recolored all photo stills to enhance the brown. Last I recall the Han Hoth action figure was produced in two colors so the fans could choose.

No, I got your point, I just don't think it matters because were talking about two different types of materials with two different types of reflective qualities. I'd just put more faith in a translucent object's ability to reflect light better. You have to remember that light actually passes through lenses versus just bouncing off of it.

These type of condescending remarks is what I mean by your attitude.
I've been researching props for 10 years and I've been working with Lucasfilm professionally on Star Wars products for 12 years. I'm no newbie.
BingoBongo has probably held more real helmets than most of us and spoken with the people involved in making on several occasions.

Sounds to me like someone is a bit on the defensive side. I personally think that some of you guys might take your ideas and opinions way too seriously, so much to the extent that it prevents you from even enjoying the subject. When I say I don't think some of you guys have watched the thing, I wasnt being completely serious. It was more of an expression as to my own disbelief as to why its so hard for some of us to be able to see this color while watching that scene, not just looking at caps.

The Photoshop color picker is extremely accurate if you know how to read it. Much more accurate than just eyeballing it. There is a slight green hue on the Hero lenses, the picker confirms it. It's not as evident as the background helmets, but I do see it. I'm just not that quick to consider it solved for certain because I've seen ideas overturned too many times over the years. Gino himself even admitted he's changed his mind on the color several times and he knows the trooper helmets extremely well.

Like any instrument, it's all about who's playin with it. I've no doubt to the abilities of the color picker, I'm just more skeptical towards the user. Like you've pointed out, you'll find a green hue with the color picker, while someone else cant find it?

Now, if you ask me, when I look at this unaltered screen cap below, I see green, but obviously that's a camera trick.

 

[yakcam]

Here's a theory: what if the Hero lenses were the same as the TIE's above, but due to the problems of transparency with the smoke lenses they just slapped strips of the green acetate used on the Stunt helmets across the backs of the smoke lenses inside the helmet? Seems like an easier solution than forming new green bubble lenses.

Just another idea.

I'll buy that and I think it's the most logical answer.

Do I see MH's eye in the pic above where he's looking up at the elevator numbers (easier to see in the smaller pic) or is it just a reflection?

Cheers,

Kraig

 

[wannab]

After reading the quote by Mark H. "... you can see the inside of the helmet and it's all sickly green..." I started thinking (AHA!) he was talking about the color of the inside of the helmet and not how everything appears looking out of the helmet -- leading me to believe it was the green HDPE material used to make the helmets. Now after struting around like a peacock for a grand total of about one minute I realized (DOH!) I forgot that after months of digging up as much info as I can on ANH stormtrooper helmets I was led to believe that the Hero helmets were not the green HDPE and in fact white ABS (or similar), so that can't be what he was refering to -- (DANG!). So back to square one for me.:unsure

Now as to existing Hero helmets, I was also led to believe that Mark H. has the helmet he used in the film in his posession, now [IF] this is true maybe someone could be clever enough to get in touch with him and have him confirm? I know, big if.

Doug

 

[wannab]

Bacta,
I don't see green in those pics -- not saying they aren't, but I just don't see it.

Doug

 

[AnsonJames]

Since we don't have a Hero lid in front of us we should go with the available images.
BactaReality's last photo CLEARLY shows the lenses are green.
The Making of Star Wars clearly shows they're green.

What is there to argue about exactly?

 

[wannab]

No argument, I just don't see any green (clearly or otherwise).

Doug

 

[AnsonJames]

I think you need a new monitor.

 

[wannab]

Now for my personal hope -- I hope they turn out to be green, I think it would add more character to the helmets.

Doug

 

[wannab]

I think you need a new monitor.

Back at ya!

Doug

 

[defstartrooper]

I cant see green in that last photo either and yep you guessed it neither can photoshop i guess it's because i'm inept or my 2 month old monitor needs replacing

 

[AnsonJames]

It's because you're inept then

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

Here's a theory: what if the Hero lenses were the same as the TIE's above, but due to the problems of transparency with the smoke lenses they just slapped strips of the green acetate used on the Stunt helmets across the backs of the smoke lenses inside the helmet? Seems like an easier solution than forming new green bubble lenses.

Just another idea.

Given the slap-dash way they made the film this is actually VERY believable. It would be VERY funny to find out they were Grey.....and Green. Combined :lol :lol :lol

Seriously though guys we're debating what hue a piece of clear plastic was 30 years ago. We all want to get it right but there's no need for jibes just because people dont agree

Bottom line is there's very little physical evidence and imo manipulation of screen shots is always a recipe for disaster. Even Vader looks green :lol

Cheers

Jez

 

[AnsonJames]

Given the slap-dash way they made the film this is actually VERY believable. It would be VERY funny to find out they were Grey.....and Green. Combined :lol :lol :lol

Seriously though guys we're debating what hue a piece of clear plastic was 30 years ago. We all want to get it right but there's no need for jibes just because people dont agree

Bottom line is there's very little physical evidence and imo manipulation of screen shots is always a recipe for disaster. Even Vader looks green :lol

Cheers

Jez

Agreed - the inept thing was only joke though.

This thread is getting sadder by the post so I shall take my leave.

P.S. The lenses were GREEN!