Hero trooper helmets...Green vs smoke tinted
- Thread starter GINO
- Start date
Raffles
Sr Member
Could be that the Hero had the lenses removed to make a cast for some reason. his would explain the smaller protuding bubbles.
Or that it was reused as a different helmetr and had the lenses removed with the intention of putting them back in later only for them to get lost. (I know I've done it).
Or that it was reused as a different helmetr and had the lenses removed with the intention of putting them back in later only for them to get lost. (I know I've done it).
defstartrooper
Sr Member
It makes sense to make green bubbles in ROTJ as all the troopers had them including the background helmets/stunt obviously with action sequences vision is a little more important.
In ANH though only the hero helmets had bubbles no big action sequences so vision not a priority.
I'm not convinced that the TIE's were left grey and the hero troopers were changed to green because the grey lenses looked more asthetically pleasing on the TIE's as its already been pointed out both look black unless there is some light source from behind wether it be reflection or something else.
All the TIE helmets and the hero stormtrooper helmets were made at the same time Raffles so there was no difference in time constraints the stunts were more hurried as they were used first in tunisia which is probably a factor in going for flat lenses at that time i think not soley a vision thing IMO.
To be honest i dont think there is likely to be a definitive answer to this question without any physical evidence or more first hand accounts.
In ANH though only the hero helmets had bubbles no big action sequences so vision not a priority.
I'm not convinced that the TIE's were left grey and the hero troopers were changed to green because the grey lenses looked more asthetically pleasing on the TIE's as its already been pointed out both look black unless there is some light source from behind wether it be reflection or something else.
All the TIE helmets and the hero stormtrooper helmets were made at the same time Raffles so there was no difference in time constraints the stunts were more hurried as they were used first in tunisia which is probably a factor in going for flat lenses at that time i think not soley a vision thing IMO.
To be honest i dont think there is likely to be a definitive answer to this question without any physical evidence or more first hand accounts.
Star Wars Helmets
Sr Member
So to try and sum up the current position we have the following evidence....
1) TIE lenses are grey and were made at the same time.
2) The Ribbed neck Stormtroopers made after ANH by AA with "Hero" eye lenses were also grey
3) Inconclusive screen caps. No sign of green, just "dull" grey/black
4) The guy who made them said they were grey
5) A guy who wore one said they were green. However the 50 Stunts certainly were green so maybe theres some confusion?
Art Department - There's no evidence that the "Art Department" did any vac forming. None whatsoever. IMO you cant say "the Art Department did x, y and z" without any evidence to back this up.
Therefore my position has always been that without the lack of anything specifically indicating green, I go with the colour we KNOW lenses were originally made for and thats Grey.
Perhaps the most damning thing for the "green case" is what defstartrooper just said - Why change the colour of the lenses from grey to green if you don't want the audience to see that new colour?
However I'm still open to ideas
Cheers
Jez
1) TIE lenses are grey and were made at the same time.
2) The Ribbed neck Stormtroopers made after ANH by AA with "Hero" eye lenses were also grey
3) Inconclusive screen caps. No sign of green, just "dull" grey/black
4) The guy who made them said they were grey
5) A guy who wore one said they were green. However the 50 Stunts certainly were green so maybe theres some confusion?
Art Department - There's no evidence that the "Art Department" did any vac forming. None whatsoever. IMO you cant say "the Art Department did x, y and z" without any evidence to back this up.
Therefore my position has always been that without the lack of anything specifically indicating green, I go with the colour we KNOW lenses were originally made for and thats Grey.
Perhaps the most damning thing for the "green case" is what defstartrooper just said - Why change the colour of the lenses from grey to green if you don't want the audience to see that new colour?
However I'm still open to ideas
Cheers
Jez
lonepigeon
Master Member
I know. That's why I said the only ones left in the archives with lenses were background helmets.
So far you've listed many little reasons why they might make the lenses in green, but nothing to indicate they ARE green.
We're talking what 5 helmets? That they went out of their way to make out of a green material that wasn't used anywhere else. If the stunt lenses were a material that could be formed to shape I might be more inclined to believe it. What I've heard was that they were thin green acetate.
The on set art department seemed to mostly do finishing and detailing - paint and found parts apparently.
I don't see any reason to believe they went out of their way to form lenses to replace existing ones.
If there was solid proof that the lenses were green - solid photographic reference or an intact Hero helmet was found - then I can see discussing how that happened.
Gino you're saying that AA did make the helmets with smoked lenses but the art department replaced them. That's a real stretch unless you already have a solid reason to believe they are green.
Is there more you're not telling?
Raffles
Sr Member
Looking at the pics on star wars helmets of the making of they definately look green.
Although I can see that the hero helmet with the removed lenses that was used for the pre release photos IS the one used for outside promotion in 77 having been fitted with flats for better vision in stores and then the originals were lost(probably, although its just as likely they were stolen by elves).
Although I can see that the hero helmet with the removed lenses that was used for the pre release photos IS the one used for outside promotion in 77 having been fitted with flats for better vision in stores and then the originals were lost(probably, although its just as likely they were stolen by elves).
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Star Wars Helmets
Sr Member
Another point worth noting.
There's a TIE helmet in the LFL archives with grey bubble lenses. The curvature on the lens isnt anywhere near as bulbous as "my" original TIE - in fact its pretty much the same as the Hero's.
All the bubble lenses were hand blown so the curvature would have varied from helmet to helmet - they just picked out the best ones for the "close up" helmets (Hero's)
Cheers
Jez
There's a TIE helmet in the LFL archives with grey bubble lenses. The curvature on the lens isnt anywhere near as bulbous as "my" original TIE - in fact its pretty much the same as the Hero's.
All the bubble lenses were hand blown so the curvature would have varied from helmet to helmet - they just picked out the best ones for the "close up" helmets (Hero's)
Cheers
Jez
Gino's grab as posted in the MR helmet thread (dunno why he didn't repost it here himself):
lonepigeon
Master Member
Those studio shots look very green all over. The white armor even looks yellowy green. The background/stunt helmet lenses look more green than the bubble Hero lenses.
The flat green lenses look pretty neutral in that outdoor shot.
The flat green lenses look pretty neutral in that outdoor shot.
Gino's grab as posted in the MR helmet thread (dunno why he didn't repost it here himself):
That's the exact screen cap I was thinking of (I didn't want to post it myself as I couldn't remember the source--done that before and got slammed for it). It's even more obvious when you watch the video in motion IMO. I'm not going to be betting any money on that shot, or switching any lenses either, but it's the only thing I've ever seen that even hinted that the ANH hero lenses may have been green. What struck me about it was the way the green seems to reflect evenly from the stunt lenses with a similar intensity as the hero. Lighting? Most likely. Plastic? I don't know. But it's still an interesting and fun question.
Dave C.
BactaReality
Active Member
You guys should do a little less yappin and more researching.:lol J/K, seriously though, how hard is it to take a little time and actually really look at some footage. Since Gino seems to be the only one who actually knows what he's talking about, I thought I'd jump in with some photographic evidence. And as far as the whole photoshop issue, when adjusting an image's saturation, you're not actually changing it's hue, or color, just bringing out existing colors within a image. As far as why some people have a hard time understanding that at least some of the hero bucket lenses were green can be summed up in one word. colorblind.:cool
Star Wars Helmets
Sr Member
...and I never realised that Chewbacca was day-glow Orange
:lol :lol :lol
I think you need to get bacta reality! (apologies for the pun)
Cheers
Jez
:lol :lol :lol
I think you need to get bacta reality! (apologies for the pun)
Cheers
Jez
lonepigeon
Master Member
We know all about Photoshop. I use Photoshop every day for a living.
It's already been discussed at length in the previous thread. I'm just not sure how dependable that method is though.
By doing that you're basically bringing out all the primary colors in everything. Note the yellow and magenta everywhere in those "enhanced" pics too.
Does that prove the rubber brow trim was purple?
Chewie's a redhead?
Death Star walls were violet?
The more you mess with the saturation EVERY shade of black will turn to a primary color. Adjust the Hi Def screen caps and you get just as much green in the shadows of the MG-34's and trooper bodysuits.
I just don't think that's definitive.
You need to run the same tests on background helmets and TIEs to see what the known lenses come out like under the same enhancements (a control group).
It's already been discussed at length in the previous thread. I'm just not sure how dependable that method is though.
By doing that you're basically bringing out all the primary colors in everything. Note the yellow and magenta everywhere in those "enhanced" pics too.
Does that prove the rubber brow trim was purple?
Chewie's a redhead?
Death Star walls were violet?
The more you mess with the saturation EVERY shade of black will turn to a primary color. Adjust the Hi Def screen caps and you get just as much green in the shadows of the MG-34's and trooper bodysuits.
I just don't think that's definitive.
You need to run the same tests on background helmets and TIEs to see what the known lenses come out like under the same enhancements (a control group).
BactaReality
Active Member
Gino is absolutely right in saying that it all depends on the angle of the light.
Here's that last pic completely unaltered.
Hmmm, I still see green, I don't know about you guys. BTW, this was taken from the latest DVD release (unaltered version).
Here's that last pic completely unaltered.
Hmmm, I still see green, I don't know about you guys. BTW, this was taken from the latest DVD release (unaltered version).
defstartrooper
Sr Member
Agreed there appears to be a green tint there but i wouldn't go as far as saying that is proof the lenses are green.
More a point towards the possibility that they were green.
It could be down to a number of things though including a reflection.
More a point towards the possibility that they were green.
It could be down to a number of things though including a reflection.
BactaReality
Active Member
Uh, can we say "denial"? :confused
After reading this thread, and the other one, and looking at all the pics, and picture manipulations...I have to agree with Gino and others and say at least some if not all of the Heros were green.
I'm sold.
I'm sold.
defstartrooper
Sr Member
Certainly can :lol
Guess my definition of proof is a little different from others :unsure
Anyhoo heres a whole bunch of screen grabs i've taken from the HD version make what you will of them i haven't enhanced these in any way.
http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/6.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/5.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/4.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/3.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/2.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/1.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/25.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/24.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/23.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/22.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/21.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/20.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/19.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/18.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/17.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/16.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/15.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/14.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/13.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/12.jpg
http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/11.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/10.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/9.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/8.jpg http://www.gigafiles.co.uk/files/3699/HeroTK/7.jpg
superrune
Well-Known Member
For those who haven't seem them, I would like to post my "photoshop trickery" screencaps I had in another thread:
These have just have a gamma applied - which does not change any relation between the colours at all. There is an obvious green tint inside the eyes in several shots - and this is a tint that isn't present on any other element in the same image. Anyone who know anything about colour should at least consider that the lenses could be green.
This version of the images have been saturated up around 50% to make my point clearer:
I am a VFX/computer graphics professional, I've worked with digital imaging for over 16 years. I have had lectures on compositing and colour work. Believe me when I say that this is not just some "photoshop trickery"! Please, be a little bit more open and respect what other people might have of knowledge...
Rune
These have just have a gamma applied - which does not change any relation between the colours at all. There is an obvious green tint inside the eyes in several shots - and this is a tint that isn't present on any other element in the same image. Anyone who know anything about colour should at least consider that the lenses could be green.
This version of the images have been saturated up around 50% to make my point clearer:
I am a VFX/computer graphics professional, I've worked with digital imaging for over 16 years. I have had lectures on compositing and colour work. Believe me when I say that this is not just some "photoshop trickery"! Please, be a little bit more open and respect what other people might have of knowledge...
Rune
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