Hero trooper helmets...Green vs smoke tinted

[BactaReality]

Yeah thats true you would think it would be logical although im not sure if any of the lenses flat or bubble were intended to appear green on screen the vast majority of people who dont scrutinise these things and just watch the movie would probably say stormtroopers have black eyes if asked.
It would be interesting to find out if there is any paperwork with a request for green lenses or a decription provided to the prop maker or art dept describing stormtroopers as having green eyes or black eyes.

If they did'nt intend to have these lenses appear green, then like others have stated, it would have to do with function over fashion. The same reason they'd use green in stunt helmets will also be true for hero's. It's all about lighting techniques and what works best for film.

 

[defstartrooper]

Yes but we also know that a great amount of materials and parts used in the production were simply used because they were at hand HDPE to form the stunt helmets for one
Also things were changed and swapped for a number of reasons ab-plate,sniper knee plate,drop boxes and helmet paint details for example all changed from the original armour design used for the sandtroopers when they finally made the stormtroopers.
Like i've said several times im not saying the bubble lenses arent green im just saying the evidence so far shown isn't completely conclusive.
I seriously doubt anything else can be gleened from the movie footage evidence needs to be dug up from other sources now like paperwork or behind the scenes photography or more first hand accounts.

 

[BactaReality]

Yes but we also know that a great amount of materials and parts used in the production were simply used because they were at hand HDPE to form the stunt helmets for one
Also things were changed and swapped for a number of reasons ab-plate,sniper knee plate,drop boxes and helmet paint details for example all changed from the original armour design used for the sandtroopers when they finally made the stormtroopers.
Like i've said several times im not saying the bubble lenses arent green im just saying the evidence so far shown isn't completely conclusive.
I seriously doubt anything else can be gleened from the movie footage evidence needs to be dug up from other sources now like paperwork or behind the scenes photography or more first hand accounts.

Is there any reason to think they could'nt manage to maintain 6 hero helmets consistently? We're talking about closeup oriented props of the two main characters, not background characters. They certainly managed to keep all the stunt helmets green didn't they?

 

[defstartrooper]

You're missing my point they changed the design of the original armour from the sandtrooper design to the final stormtrooper design which was made later also details were changed from the stunt stormtrooper to the hero stormtrooper also made after the stunts.
Frown
Bubble lenses rather than flat
Brow
Like you say the flat lenses were used in background helmets if they weren't made to look deliberately green on screen it makes sense that the close up helmets wouldn't use green material as with close up prolonged shots the lenses would look obviously green.
If indeed they werent supposed to look green it makes sense that black or grey material would be used.
It is possible that when the stunt helmets were produced whoever finished the helmets happened to have green acetate at hand so just used that it's cheap material and one sheet would do a number of helmets.
I'm not saying any of the above is true it's simply meant as a possible theory

 

[BactaReality]

You're missing my point they changed the design of the original armour from the sandtrooper design to the final stormtrooper design which was made later also details were changed from the stunt stormtrooper to the hero stormtrooper also made after the stunts.
Frown
Bubble lenses rather than flat
Brow
Like you say the flat lenses were used in background helmets if they weren't made to look deliberately green on screen it makes sense that the close up helmets wouldn't use green material as with close up prolonged shots the lenses would look obviously green.
If indeed they werent supposed to look green it makes sense that black or grey material would be used.
It is possible that when the stunt helmets were produced whoever finished the helmets happened to have green acetate at hand so just used that it's cheap material and one sheet would do a number of helmets.
I'm not saying any of the above is true it's simply meant as a possible theory

Your point is moot unless you can prove that the reason why there's green on film is anything other than green lenses. We all know they changed out parts, but that has nothing to do with why we'd see green on film bro.

 

[defstartrooper]

From what i see there are 2 or 3 frames that show green bubble lense in the entire movie and it happens to be out of focus and in the background whilst none of the close up shots show any "true" green elements
some show when adjusted what appears to the eye as a slight green hue although the eye is easily decieved and when checked there is actually no green there.
All the adjusted shots which do have green elements in the lense area also show the same green elements in other parts of the same shot which are known not to be green.
All of these reasons are what leads me to not believe conclusively beyond any doubt the bubble lenses are green.
They certainly could be green but without indisputable evidence i'm not going to claim they are or arent.

 

[Zenwalker]

From what i see there are 2 or 3 frames that show green bubble lense in the entire movie and it happens to be out of focus and in the background whilst none of the close up shots show any "true" green elements
some show when adjusted what appears to the eye as a slight green hue although the eye is easily decieved and when checked there is actually no green there.
All the adjusted shots which do have green elements in the lense area also show the same green elements in other parts of the same shot which are known not to be green.
All of these reasons are what leads me to not believe conclusively beyond any doubt the bubble lenses are green.
They certainly could be green but without indisputable evidence i'm not going to claim they are or arent.

The reason there are some green areas that are known not to be green has already been explained earlier in this post by superrune. The scattered green areas are caused by video noise. Yes, there will be some 'scattered' green areas in the image when the saturation is boosted. But, as was expalined earlier, if you look the eyes have heavily concentrated areas of green, not scattered. That is because that area is actually green not black. There is no other part of that image that has as heavily concentrated area of green as the eyes. I suggest you go back earlier in the thread and look again at his screen grabs.

 

[defstartrooper]

I have looked at them a number of times very carefully if you look you will see that the green areas on the images on the lenses and other parts of the image just happen to be concentrated around where reflections are.
Given that the lenses are obviously much more reflective than other parts of the image it isnt totally surprising that they would show a higher concentration of green.
there are parts of these images that show green where we know it isn't that are too large to be explained by noise or stray grains

 

[BactaReality]

I have looked at them a number of times very carefully if you look you will see that the green areas on the images on the lenses and other parts of the image just happen to be concentrated around where reflections are.
Given that the lenses are obviously much more reflective than other parts of the image it isnt totally surprising that they would show a higher concentration of green.
there are parts of these images that show green where we know it isn't that are too large to be explained by noise or stray grains

One thing you fail to understand is that it's not merely a reflective surface we're looking at. Light is actually passing through the material. The areas that are green are not where the light is being reflected, but rather where the light is being cast through the lens and bouncing off of the face of the person underneath. The areas that are darker are where there is no light passing through and since we're talking about more than just a reflective surface, you're looking at cast shadows around the corners of the eye socket. If what we're looking at is what you state, then the results would be quite different. You'd see a more uniform level of distortion in all dark areas of the film. If the lenses were showing green from the reflective properties of that material, you'd get a different shape green area. You also can't include overly saturated image enhancements in this debate, as that is where you're going to find levels of distortion that become unrecognizable, which is where you're mistakingly thinking is the same as normal unaltered footage. You really just need to trust the imaging experts on this one guy.

 

[defstartrooper]

The saturated images are the only images that show any green though so if we cant include them then there are no green bubble lense images except for that one out of focus in the background frame of Han.
Aside from that no other frame has been shown that is unaltered and actually contains green elements in the lenses.
As for the light bouncing off the face of the actor being the reason for the green showing up surely light travels through the entire lense ?
Is it mere coincidence that the ramped up images showing green just happens to be where unadjusted we see light reflecting ?
The facts are that in this thread so far we have seen one picture(the one of Han in the background) that actually contains green elements.
The rest are all very questionable now i cant speak for others but for me when something is still questionable then it hasn't been proved,
for me proof is unquestionable.

 

[AnsonJames]

BactaReality, you'll never be able to convince the doubters and obviously defstartrooper won't believe they were green unless someone posts him at least two original hero lids.

At this point this thread is probably about 12 pages too long as it is but...

Photo's from Jez's site.

Hero lenses were green.

 

[yakcam]

unless someone posts him at least two original hero lids.

Interested, depending on price :lol

Cheers,

Kraig

 

[defstartrooper]

Anson i am not doubting anything i'm fully prepared to believe the lenses are green but what i believe is neither here nor there.
What i'm actually interested in is evidence not opinion.
I am simply pointing out the evidence given so far is not 100% conclusive proof that's all.
If the lenses are proved to be green then that is great if they are proved to not be green equally great i just want to know for sure either way.
I'm not out to prove anyone wrong i just don't think the evidence so far is concrete proof.

 

[AnsonJames]

:unsure

 

[defstartrooper]

What scene from ANH would that be then ?

 

[AnsonJames]

Behind the scenes footage - your point?

You're right - you are flogging a dead horse...

One last point - all the ROTJ lenses were green too for some strange reason - continuity would make perfect sense .

 

[BactaReality]

Is this what they call Irritainment? :confused

 

[defstartrooper]

That was filmed after production wasn't it ?
And funnily enough when you actually check the image no true green element.
Infact there are suggestions of colours to the eye all over that image which arent true,
Green, magenta, yellow and blue to name a few in the caps and faces of those troopers does that mean the helmets had a pearlised paintjob ?

 

[superrune]

Check this out. Here are some footage of Hamill walking out of the elevator:

http://www.superrune.com/offsite/2007/trooper_luke_walking.mov
(17mb file, cropped from the HD version)

Notice how the background has a swimming, dirty kind of green-blue - while his eyes have a deep green that's clearly defined and looks like refracting light. Also notice that nothing else on the trooper goes towards green, another evidence that there's nothing green contaminating the foreground element.

This sequence only have a gamma of 2.0 applied - which is nothing. It's about the same gamma difference you find between a mac and a PC.

Rune

 

[BactaReality]

That was filmed after production wasn't it ?
And funnily enough when you actually check the image no true green element.
Infact there are suggestions of colours to the eye all over that image which arent true,
Green, magenta, yellow and blue to name a few in the caps and faces of those troopers does that mean the helmets had a pearlised paintjob ?

Funnily indeed.