Hawkeye (tv series)

I enjoyed the first two episodes and I agree the Avengers musical looked incredibly cheesey, they nailed that over the top very theatrical, musical style very well, but it would still be fun to see.

Lucky the Pizza dog is going to be a real scene stealer in this series.

I wonder if the watch the Tracksuit Mafia are after is a Stark Tech type watch that has a nanotech RT inside similar to the watch Tony flipped to protect his hand against Bucky in Civil War.

I loved seeing the 2012 NY battle again but from a new perspective.

Having read Matt Fraction's Hawkeye run it's great to see him credited as a producer and also the credits graphics clearly inspired by the art from his run is great.
Credit to Christophe Beck and his co-composer for the score. I've enjoyed his Agent Carter One Shot, Ant Man, Ant Man and the Wasp and Wandavision scores.
 
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Watched the first ep, am liking it, except that the pacing of the direction/editing is rather slow.
 
I really, really loved these first couple of episodes. Hawkeye is kind of weird character for me. I don't have any particular feelings about the character from the comics, and (acting talent aside) I don't care for anything I've heard about Jeremy Renner. That said... I really like that we're actually getting some much-needed development of his character here. There were several lovely moments that hit me squarely in the feels.

Also, I'm 1000% convinced his wife is a former SHIELD agent. She's too well-informed and too business-like about these shenanigans to be a regular vanilla civilian.
 
watched ep.2. At two or three points I was wondering if maybe this show isn't for me. Then it would win me back. So we'll see how it goes!
 
I enjoyed it. I've never read any Ronin (Ronan?) comics so I don't know much about what he did as that character, other than what was in the movie, but didn't he, like, kill a lot of people mercilessly? In Endgame he kept talking about what he had become. The Avengers just let him get away with all that? Does his wife know about all that? Does everybody know about it? Why does the girl never even ask him why he wants this suit back? Does she know? Just seems like some forgotten plot points going on here.

But, I did enjoy it. I really need some of that Christmas spirit right now.
 
Spoilers for the premier:

Watched the first two episodes. It's okay, I guess, but I had problems with it. I saw it's getting good reviews but I don't think it's that good so far.

First, I'm just not interested in the Kate Bishop character. So she's a rich girl who just decides to become a superhero, so I guess that's all it takes? I know Batman haa a similar premise, but I feel this is pretty flimsy. I don't care about the character at all. Poor little rich girl, mommy pays for everything, including all her training to be a superhero.

I saw one review saying it's the most "grounded" Marvel show yet. A rich girl that lives in a Manhattan penthouse has her dad die in an alien invasion, so she decides to become a superhero on the spot, grows up having her mom pay for everything, succeeds at becoming a superhero at the age of 22, and just randomly meets and begins working with her superhero idol is "grounded?" I get that the reviewer is probably referring to the family element of Clint and the use of human foes and more relatable situations, and maybe the fact that Kate doesn't have superpowers, but I don't think it's all that "grounded" in reality or relatable.

I also just don't believe Haley Steinfeld as some sort of vigilante bad-ass that can fight off multiple attackers twice her size, when she displays no muscle tone and can barely even run. Taking martial arts from the age of 5 doesn't mean someone can take on multiple attackers at the same time, and be able to shrug off injuries like nothing happened. There's tons of people that take martial arts from an early age, it doesn't work that way. I get there's a suspension of disbelief in the superhero/action hero genre, but give me something to help me out. Show some reason why she was trained to do that (like in Batman Begins) and get an actor that seems believable as someone who is supposed to have physically trained and honed their body their entire life to be an elite athlete and fighter, not just someone who looks cute and is famous.

There's also a lot of lazy writing. I get that it's based on a specific comic arc, so I don't know how closely it's following that, but there's a lot of dumb stuff. The character origin is, as I said, flimsy, as is the circumstances in which Kate meets and works with Hawkeye. She (unintentionally) wrecks a bell tower at her school on a dare or a bet, so she has to go home and attend a galla in which she just happens to be dressed exactly like the cater waiters, which enables her to pretend to be one (how many times have we seen that before) so she can easily walk right into the super-secret rich people's auction (attended by her soon-to-be step dad) where they auction off her personal hero's sword and costume. And how did the auction organizers get them? Maybe it'll be revealed plausibly later, but it hasn't been yet. Then she wears the costume (which fits, for some reason), stumbles upon a murder of a family friend and takes on a crime syndicate, and meets her personal hero that she's lived her whole life trying to be like.

Also, Hawkeye just walks into a police crime scene/fire undetected, even though it's been established that people know who he is on sight, can't find his Ronin costume, but he does find a major clue of a sticker for a LARP group on the fire engine (what? Why is that even a thing, putting personal stickers on a fire engine?) which takes him into a LARPing event - again, people recognize him instantly, but don't really get that excited. I mean, if Tom Cruise or LeBron James showed up at your event, do you think people would give them **** about following the rules? No, they'd be let in immediately, fawned over and be swarmed by fans, not talked down to. Also, I'm pretty sure LARPing events don't just give you a character and costume when you register, but whatever. Also, Clint is choosing to go on this little adventure to get his costume back (we don't really have a good reason why as of yet) instead of being with his family at Christmas time, who are such an important part of his life that he was devastated when he lost them to Thanos, but I guess the costume and protecting a girl he just met are more important now.

Sorry for the rant, I'm just tired of lazy writing. Maybe my disbelief is just getting harder to suspend the more I see things like this.
 
Bloop said:
First, I'm just not interested in the Kate Bishop character. So she's a rich girl who just decides to become a superhero, so I guess that's all it takes? I know Batman haa a similar premise, but I feel this is pretty flimsy. I don't care about the character at all. Poor little rich girl, mommy pays for everything, including all her training to be a superhero.

I also just don't believe Haley Steinfeld as some sort of vigilante bad-ass that can fight off multiple attackers twice her size, when she displays no muscle tone and can barely even run. Taking martial arts from the age of 5 doesn't mean someone can take on multiple attackers at the same time, and be able to shrug off injuries like nothing happened. There's tons of people that take martial arts from an early age, it doesn't work that way. I get there's a suspension of disbelief in the superhero/action hero genre, but give me something to help me out. Show some reason why she was trained to do that (like in Batman Begins) and get an actor that seems believable as someone who is supposed to have physically trained and honed their body their entire life to be an elite athlete and fighter, not just someone who looks cute and is famous.
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I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and not call this sexist right out of the gate, but please go back and re-read that first paragraph again and realize how it can really come off that way. "It's almost the exact same origin as batman (losing a parent/parents) and spending their money to become a superhero", but somehow it's more believable that Michael Keaton would be that guy than Hailee Stanfield?

Okay.

Bloop said:
There's also a lot of lazy writing. I get that it's based on a specific comic arc, so I don't know how closely it's following that, but there's a lot of dumb stuff. The character origin is, as I said, flimsy, as is the circumstances in which Kate meets and works with Hawkeye. She (unintentionally) wrecks a bell tower at her school on a dare or a bet, so she has to go home and attend a galla in which she just happens to be dressed exactly like the cater waiters, which enables her to pretend to be one (how many times have we seen that before) so she can easily walk right into the super-secret rich people's auction (attended by her soon-to-be step dad) where they auction off her personal hero's sword and costume. And how did the auction organizers get them? Maybe it'll be revealed plausibly later, but it hasn't been yet. Then she wears the costume (which fits, for some reason), stumbles upon a murder of a family friend and takes on a crime syndicate, and meets her personal hero that she's lived her whole life trying to be like.
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This is literally not even close to the most ridiculous set of coincidences the Avengers have had and made use of.

Bloop said:
Also, Hawkeye just walks into a police crime scene/fire undetected, even though it's been established that people know who he is on sight, can't find his Ronin costume, but he does find a major clue of a sticker for a LARP group on the fire engine (what? Why is that even a thing, putting personal stickers on a fire engine?) which takes him into a LARPing event - again, people recognize him instantly, but don't really get that excited. I mean, if Tom Cruise or LeBron James showed up at your event, do you think people would give them **** about following the rules? No, they'd be let in immediately, fawned over and be swarmed by fans, not talked down to. Also, I'm pretty sure LARPing events don't just give you a character and costume when you register, but whatever. Also, Clint is choosing to go on this little adventure to get his costume back (we don't really have a good reason why as of yet) instead of being with his family at Christmas time, who are such an important part of his life that he was devastated when he lost them to Thanos, but I guess the costume and protecting a girl he just met are more important now.

Sorry for the rant, I'm just tired of lazy writing. Maybe my disbelief is just getting harder to suspend the more I see things like this.
Click to expand...
Hawkeye may be recognized if people are paying attention/HAVE HIS NAME (like the guy who comped his dinner, since Clint probably made a reservation), but he doesn't go out of his way to get attention. He's always been the most low-key of the Avengers, shying away from the spotlight (yet he gets mildly salty about not selling as many toys). Also.. he's kind of a dick to the majority of people, so why would they be nice to him? Even celebrities get pushback if they're consistently a dick.

Context recognition is huge. Who would expect to see a freaking Avenger at a random fire in New York? Also, he's literally working to avoid being noticed and doing what a lot of people do "walk with purpose and pretend you belong there". Random lookee-loos on the sidelines don't know what a fire investigator look like. I probably would have assumed that's what he was since he just strolled right in and made himself at home.

I don't know what the regs for personalizing things on NYC first responder vehicles is, but I don't think it's that out of line to assume it might happen.

As for the Ronin costume... just because the Track Suit Mafia is a bunch of morons doesn't mean everyone is. It could wind up in the hands of someone who actually has a brain (like Echo, who was shown at the end of episode 2) and they might have resources to get DNA or something from it that might lead them to him/his family. Echo, in the comics, works for Kingpin, so it's entirely possible she could have those resources. That's just off the top of my head.

If you don't like the show, that's cool. Not everyone has to like the same things. But it's not necessarily lazy writing. It might be something that just hasn't been addressed yet.
 
firesprite said:
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and not call this sexist right out of the gate, but please go back and re-read that first paragraph again and realize how it can really come off that way. "It's almost the exact same origin as batman (losing a parent/parents) and spending their money to become a superhero", but somehow it's more believable that Michael Keaton would be that guy than Hailee Stanfield?

Okay.


This is literally not even close to the most ridiculous set of coincidences the Avengers have had and made use of.


Hawkeye may be recognized if people are paying attention/HAVE HIS NAME (like the guy who comped his dinner, since Clint probably made a reservation), but he doesn't go out of his way to get attention. He's always been the most low-key of the Avengers, shying away from the spotlight (yet he gets mildly salty about not selling as many toys). Also.. he's kind of a dick to the majority of people, so why would they be nice to him? Even celebrities get pushback if they're consistently a dick.

Context recognition is huge. Who would expect to see a freaking Avenger at a random fire in New York? Also, he's literally working to avoid being noticed and doing what a lot of people do "walk with purpose and pretend you belong there". Random lookee-loos on the sidelines don't know what a fire investigator look like. I probably would have assumed that's what he was since he just strolled right in and made himself at home.

I don't know what the regs for personalizing things on NYC first responder vehicles is, but I don't think it's that out of line to assume it might happen.

As for the Ronin costume... just because the Track Suit Mafia is a bunch of morons doesn't mean everyone is. It could wind up in the hands of someone who actually has a brain (like Echo, who was shown at the end of episode 2) and they might have resources to get DNA or something from it that might lead them to him/his family. Echo, in the comics, works for Kingpin, so it's entirely possible she could have those resources. That's just off the top of my head.

If you don't like the show, that's cool. Not everyone has to like the same things. But it's not necessarily lazy writing. It might be something that just hasn't been addressed yet.
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My opinion is not sexist. My point was that we've seen a rich person become a superhero in part by using his wealth with Batman (among others). But in Batman Begins, Bruce left everything behind and risked his life and fortune to learn how to be a one man army. Kate just stayed in her privileged life and was enabled by her mother. You can argue his decions are also childish at times, and that his privilege allows him to bankroll his obsession, but his character is presented as flawed, and far more nuanced than what has been shown from Kate Bishop. We've already had two episodes to give some backstory to Kate, so while I get that it's a series and more may be coming, I'd like more than just a cartoon credit sequence that shows her training at this point. I understand that the series is called "Hawkeye" not "Kate Bishop," so we're splitting our time between two leads, but they introduced her character to the audience for the first time in this series, so maybe they should give us some more reason to care about her. I can't connect with a spoiled rich girl - she destroys an entire building and her mom just cancels her credit cards and makes her go to a galla? Maybe the writers actually want us to dislike her so she has some redemption as a hero later, but it doesn't seem like it. I get that they wanted a lighter tone for this series, but if someone is going to be a vigilante who smashes in people's faces, I think we can also do with a little better background and a more believable lead.
 
Batman CHOSE to train in private to become GOTHAM'S protector & remain anonymous. Kate trained in SEVERAL different disciplines, archery, gymnastics, fencing, martial arts, etc, with the intention of simply protecting herself & her mother.

At the time of the Chitari attack, she was totally helpless & lost a parent. She decided that wouldn't happen again. SHE WAS NEVER TRAINING TO BE A VIGILANTE. I'm failing to see how you watched the show at all & didn't see that. The opening credits animation did more to show a realistic advancement of a character's skills & personal arc than some films spend 2 hours on.

As far as Clint, did you just forget that he's a trained SHIELD agent? I'm pretty sure that blending in, remaining anonymous, & infiltration in chaotic situations would probably be covered during first day orientation.
 
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Regarding how the auction got ahold of the stuff from the Avengers compound, I'm betting that they've got someone inside at Damage Control, the government division that we first saw in Homecoming, screwing up Toomes' (the Vulture's), lucrative contracts to clean up the damage done in the attacks.
 
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Bloop said:
so she decides to become a superhero on the spot, grows up having her mom pay for everything, succeeds at becoming a superhero at the age of 22,
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I really have to take issue with this one. She has not succeeded at becoming a superhero yet. She's pretty good at hand to hand but gets overwhelmed when she has to fight more than one person at a time. And she's over her head with everything else.

Also the ninja costume is clearly too big for her.
 
Bloop said:
My opinion is not sexist. My point was that we've seen a rich person become a superhero in part by using his wealth with Batman (among others). But in Batman Begins, Bruce left everything behind and risked his life and fortune to learn how to be a one man army. Kate just stayed in her privileged life and was enabled by her mother. You can argue his decions are also childish at times, and that his privilege allows him to bankroll his obsession, but his character is presented as flawed, and far more nuanced than what has been shown from Kate Bishop. We've already had two episodes to give some backstory to Kate, so while I get that it's a series and more may be coming, I'd like more than just a cartoon credit sequence that shows her training at this point. I understand that the series is called "Hawkeye" not "Kate Bishop," so we're splitting our time between two leads, but they introduced her character to the audience for the first time in this series, so maybe they should give us some more reason to care about her. I can't connect with a spoiled rich girl - she destroys an entire building and her mom just cancels her credit cards and makes her go to a galla? Maybe the writers actually want us to dislike her so she has some redemption as a hero later, but it doesn't seem like it. I get that they wanted a lighter tone for this series, but if someone is going to be a vigilante who smashes in people's faces, I think we can also do with a little better background and a more believable lead.
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You also go into that with years more info in your head on Bruce/Batman than you do Kate.

If Batman Begins was called Vigilante and the character was name Fred Smith, I doubt it comes off quite as nuanced. They also spend a good chunk of their 2.5 hours on that aspect of his life, where as we've had what? 90 minutes of Hawkeye that is split between two characters and not focused on just one of them. You also got their entire story from that 2.5 hours. We've seen 1/3 of Hawkeye.

The only bit that really stuck out to me as weak was the destruction of the bell tower from ringing the bell. Unless that arrow had a propulsion system that kicked in after it gripped the rope, there's no way it had the juice to ring that bell, let alone as much as it did. And if ringing it that much caused that much damage, the school has a terrible maintenance program who should be on the hook for most of the damage. But, that's the absolute definition of nit-picking :)

Oh, and those were some seriously stout wine bottles!
 
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