Han Solo ANH Hero Blaster Flash Hider *FOUND*

Boba Debt

Master Member
...........in about 2 hours


Gotcha again :lol



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EDIT:



This thread is really cluttered so I am going to start a new thread so we can discuss the real flash hider


I have new information that proves all (I think) other ANH Flash Hider replicas are really inaccurate.

Anyone care to guess what major detail we ALL got wrong?


It will give you something to do while I process the pictures.
 

Reel Fakes

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Originally posted by Boba Debt@Oct 7 2005, 03:01 PM

Anyone care to guess what major detail we ALL got wrong?

[snapback]1092064[/snapback]​


You mean something other than the "notch"?
 

Darth Lars

Master Member
There are actually 15 scallops?
Then my flash hider I made from sculpey and plastic bottle caps would be über-accurate. B)

Edit: I saw in the other thread that there are 16 "scallops".. Oh well. At least it is more accurate than most other replicas in one aspect. :lol
 

Durasteel Corporation

Well-Known Member
So wha?......is it my understanding that no exact repro has emerged for high res photo inspection??? As I see it, two combined parts are still extraplotation....probably better than anything else but still technically an extrapolation if we are to assume the original was either one piece OR a base with the cone attached. The pics and explanations Ive seen seem like we are still dealing with two different parts and not the key prop we seek.

Am I wrong? :)
 

Boba Debt

Master Member
Yes you are wrong.

Martin is very knowledgeable about these, he owns 3 of guns.

He has confirmed that the a full flash hider with external locking lugs has the same cone as one with internal locking lugs.

He has also confirmed that the Booster with external locking lugs is the same as the booster section of a full flash hider with external locking lugs
 

Prop Runner

Sr Member
My source for the correct boster-hider just informed me that he will be able to loan me his part in early November. Please stay tuned for updates. :)

- Gabe
 

Durasteel Corporation

Well-Known Member
He has confirmed that the a full flash hider with external locking lugs has the same cone as one with internal locking lugs.


Got proof? Some money behind these projects.....its been a great thread so far but I think some pictorial proof is necessary for all.

Assuming he is right.....a two piece deal is, by its very physical nature going to have some differences than a one piece deal....that is why Im saying its necessary to show some proof or some hard explanation behind an extrapolation vs. specs off the actual, one piece deal.

Nothing personal BD. ;)
 

Prop Runner

Sr Member
Teaser pics of the booster-flash hider I'll be receiving on loan in a couple of weeks (the other smaller part is explained below):

IMG_1176.JPG


IMG_1177.JPG


IMG_1178.JPG


IMG_1179.JPG


IMG_1180.JPG


IMG_1181.JPG


Here are some collected excerpts from my source about these:

I understand it is one of the rarer parts to find for the already rare MG81 parts.  I have been fortunate enough to find two partial parts guns over the last year.  Unfortunately none had the flash hider only the regular booster.  There are 150-200 mg81 and mg81z (which is the duel version) in the hands of legal shooters or collectors.  The booster without the flash hider is what most collectors have.  There cannot be more than a few dozen original flash hider boosters with these guns. I have only seen the version with the outer lugs, with and without flash hider.  That is except for the two pieces with flash hider that you posted.

There is a booster cone that has to fit inside for a real one to function.  As an aside to real reason for wanting to copy mine there may be a small market with machine gunners for this piece.

As for the type of steel I will go through my German books and see if I can find exact hardness of steel used in these.  You also posted asking about how hot the gun gets.  It gets very hot.  My gun has been timed at 1830 rounds per minute.  I usually do not fire more then a 50 round belt at a time.  Giving the gun barrel time to cool down between firing.  The gun was made to operate with a wind of 200-300mph flowing over them with an air temp often below zero.
Here's a shot of my source's working MG81 with the above booster-suppressor, mounted on an anti-aircraft tripod:

IMG_0854_s.JPG


After I receive the part I'll take scaled close-up shots and post them, and hopefully by then would have an idea how much it would cost to replicate. Since these are so rare, I would like to see about having them machined in steel with the correct internal geometry and threading so that real MG81 owners could used them for shooting with the pictured internal booster cone. This would help protect and preserve their original boosters/hiders and the purist collectors among us would probably want one made of steel as well, especially if they're mounting it to a real Mauser.

Regarding finish, the part I will be receiving is painted, but the extreme temperatures of shooting have allowed the paint to sink into the steel and leave it somewhat blued. According to my source, original boosters and flash hiders were either blued or parkerized, given that they were manufactured by several subcontractors, as were other components of the machine gun. He also states that only German companies made the MG81. It was not licensed to or copied by other countries. Looking at the screen-used blaster suppressor, it appears to most likely be parkerized, however I recognize that some would prefer bluing. Parkerizing (sometimes called phosphating) is a method of protecting steel surfaces from corrosion and thus increasing their durability. It is commonly used on weapons as an alternative to bluing, and is considered more effective than bluing. It is ineffective on nonferrous surfaces such as aluminum, and on stainless steel. The word "parkerizing" is a trade name for phosphate deposition coating, usually black in color, that provides good protection against corrosion and abrasion.

If replicas are made of steel rather than aluminum, I would probably not have them finished, but allow the collector to decide which finish he prefers. Steel replicas would be more expensive than aluminum, but the more orders placed, the less significant the difference will be.

Please don't PM or e-mail me about this part or any future replicas yet. David or I will make announcements when the time is right, but feel free to post any questions or comments here in the meantime. :)
 

Darth Lars

Master Member
How is the insert ("booster cone") mounted in the muffler? Could this have been used to attach the bull barrel somehow?
I guess you'll know better when it arrives.
 

Prop Runner

Sr Member
Originally posted by Darth Lars@Oct 17 2005, 07:34 PM
How is the insert ("booster cone") mounted in the muffler? Could this have been used to attach the bull barrel somehow?
I guess you'll know better when it arrives.
[snapback]1098378[/snapback]​
I believe the booster cone is simply inserted before the booster is threaded onto the barrel shroud and it acts as a sort of free-floating gas valve. It's used with both the flash hider boosters and the non-hider boosters, so it's a standard part on the MG81. Given what we know about the bull barrel length, diameter, and how the suppressor was attached, I don't see any reason or room for the booster cone to have been included in the prop, but I could be wrong. In these preproduction photos, the suppressor looks centered:

hero_suppressor.JPG


But in the Chronicles and other pics, It's completely off-center:

anh6.jpg


The way I see it, if the booster cone was glued to the bull barrel and the suppressor then secured onto it with the screw, it wouldn't have been so off-center

Maybe David can chime in on this too.
 

Prop Runner

Sr Member
Originally posted by Lordsandy@Oct 17 2005, 08:11 PM
Well Done .

;)  :thumbsup
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Thanks. :)

Here's an observation I can make even before I have the part:

Notice how the lug notches taper off, and the rounded end is not circular but oval:

IMG_1179.JPG


That implies that the ball tool that carved out the notches had a spline curve or radiused tool path, as opposed to a linear one:

ball_tool.JPG


This is similar to how the notches were cut on the master of the Obi saber grenade before it was investment cast for mass production: the cuts "bottom out" at either end of the grenade using a curved toolpath that takes the tool away from the part.

The oval taper is even more pronounced on this part than on the hero part, which leads me to believe they were either made by different subcontractors or the tool settings changed between one lot and the next.

I would recommend having the oval taper shape somewhere in between. Any thoughts on this?
 

bobasfett

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Nice job Gabe.....I vote for the steel version. It may be less expensive if we can get some MG81 owners in on the run. That and it would be much more accurate. :) Can't wait to see some better pics too......
 

Serafino

Sr Member
Originally posted by Prop Runner@Oct 17 2005, 12:32 PM
Notice how the lug notches taper off, and the rounded end is not circular but oval:

(image)

That implies that the ball tool that carved out the notches had a spline curve or radiused tool path, as opposed to a linear one:

(image)

This is similar to how the notches were cut on the master of the Obi saber grenade before it was investment cast for mass production: the cuts "bottom out" at either end of the grenade using a curved toolpath that takes the tool away from the part.

- Gabe
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I didn't imagine I'd have something to say in this thread, but now you touch on the Obi, I do. :)

The 'curved tool path' is simply the end of cut of a large-radius cutting tool. I doubt they even had the ability to create a curved tool path of a ball end mill back then, that's a CNC trick.

This is how grenade experts think the Obi grenades were made, and this has been borne out in the making of some replicas through the use of such a cutter.

The concept regarding the cutter path is discussed here:

http://www.inert-ord.net/rod02h/no3/cutdetails/index.html

If you need the password to get in, it's name 'open', password '1945'. Please note that not all of his conclusions or generalizations are correct, but the ganged cutter idea is dead on as an explanation for how most (but not all.) grenades look.

Grenade experts have also confirmed the fact that original rifle grenades were all made by machine, they are not cast. Fresh originals show crisp machine marks and none of the usual signs of casting.
 

Prop Runner

Sr Member
Andres, I stand corrected. :D ( I didn't imagine you would have anything to say here either :lol )

However, since the cutter ROLLS as opposed to MILLS, the curvature of the blade accounts for the same groove tapering off on the ends (imagine the ball-end bit mounted to a wheel as it travels along the outside of the booster cylinder). The CAD demo from the site you cited does bear this out:

no3bodycutter.jpg


In this case, the wheel descends onto the cylinder and THEN starts to roll, as opposed to taking a curved or linear path. That initial descent and pressure is akin to a stamping operation on the ends of the grenade body. Same result, same principle, just different process. :)

If anything, it goes to show that machining individual ordenance and firearm components even during and before WWI was commonplace. Just imagine the outrageous government and industrial resources that went and still go into military production... And all BEFORE CNC. :confused

- Gabe
 
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