Han Solo ANH Hero Blaster Flash Hider *FOUND*

[Durasteel Corporation]

Why dont we find out what MGs surfaces were coated with first, before assuming it was blued steel?


If these things were indeed a non-standard part, or eastern manufacture, there is a range of possible techniques that 'darkened' the metal.

Lets see if we can get an upclose shot first.

 

[Prop Runner]

Originally posted by Durasteel Corporation@Oct 2 2005, 07:43 PM
If these things were indeed a non-standard part, or eastern manufacture, there is a range of possible techniques that 'darkened' the metal.

Why Eastern? We've already established that the MG-81 is a German Mauser-manufactured machinegun. Check out this link and scroll down:

http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust5.htm

Lets see if we can get an upclose shot first.

[snapback]1088438[/snapback]​

How's this for upclose:

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

Why Eastern? We've already established that the MG-81 is a German Mauser-manufactured machinegun. Check out this link and scroll down

Have we really??? We seem to have found the right path to go down (firearm vs. firehose) but I dont see any affirmed and absolute proof that it was made specifically for the MG81, or in any quantity, or who actually made it.

The guys I spoke with were very adamant that gazillions of these guns were shipped to and replicated in dozens of countries other than germany. Even the chinese and japanese apparently used them.

I dont think its wise to bank on any more specifics until we have a verifiable part number and affired location....which may never happen.

As for that piece shown above with the enlarged photo....looks damn good. But that doenst prove its origin any more than a verbal claim or 'expert claim.' Facts being 100% verifyable I think we are on the right track....but I dont see any solid facts other than what appears to be the correct flash hider on that particular gun.

Can the owner of that piece take an upclose profile picture?

Also, the Chronicles cannot be said to represent the exact coloring or true world color fidelity. Just like the debate as to what color vaders gun metal paint is.....same idea...I would be careful before assuming it was 'blued' as in 'dark blue' as there are many approaches to darkening. Linseed oil when applied and heated will open the pours of a ferrous metal and produce a dark brownish black. Paints, after all, are made of pigments and can also be 'melted' into the pours.

Not trying to bust anyones bubble here, just a reminder not to jump to conclusions. Eg: was medieval armour bullet proof...yes, some of it was. Was every single piece of a shot proof suit, shot proof....no. Was a single piece entirely shot proof....no. Was the metal entirely homogenous in content OR thickness....no. Ergo, wouldnt the entire thing oxidize or decarburize at the same rate...no. Lots of details to think about. I take the same approach to this piece...we must be careful not to jump to any conclusions.

EDIT, when something that is darkened (I am intentionally not using the term blued for good reason) and it oxidizes or rusts, the effect can change the look of the piece. Also, rust, even in very thin layers can reflect light. Taking that into consideration along with the photos coloration....go easy on any fast assumptions. Note that the fluted area is discernably browner than the other parts of the gun. Id bet thats because human finger oils were left on that area, producing more rust. I get the same affect on areas of my suit of armor that are more frequently handled like areas around buckles and latches.


D

 

[Prop Runner]

Originally posted by Durasteel Corporation@Oct 2 2005, 09:51 PM
We seem to have found the right path to go down (firearm vs. firehose) but I dont see any affirmed and absolute proof that it was made specifically for the MG81, or in any quantity, or who actually made it.

*sigh*

Drew, didn't you already see this:

That's a GERMAN MG81 manual with GERMAN text next to what is undeniably the Han Solo ANH hero flash suppressor.

As for that piece shown above with the enlarged photo....looks damn good.  But that doenst prove its origin any more than a verbal claim or 'expert claim.'    Facts being 100% verifyable I think we are on the right track....but I dont see any solid facts other than what appears to be the correct flash hider on that particular gun.

Uh... Drew, newsflash: that's the pre-production Lucasfilm photo of the screen-used hero prop, and yes, you're looking at an MG81 flash suppressor on a real Mauser. So THAT'S the finish we should be interested in duplicating.

Also, the Chronicles cannot be said to represent the exact coloring or true world color fidelity.

There's no Chronicles picture here - that's a a scan of a photograph, not a scan of a printed image from a book. ANY photo somebody posts will lose some color due to whatever light source illuminates it (flourescent? incandescent? natural? direct? diffused? polarized?) In this case, the green tint suggests a flourescent light.

Here's one I just took of my Greedo Killer M9 LFC flsh hider:

Can you tell me what kind of finish it has? It seems to more closely resemble the hero MG81 flash suppressor in the LFL photo than the blued Mauser and scope beside it.

 

[Matsuo]

Thats parkerizing..

I'll wager the MG81 muzzle devices were blued, as was the fashion back in those days.

I'll check at knob creek in a few weeks, but I'm not holding my breath, it seems a fairly obscure/rare part.

Matt

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

Yeah yeah I know. Im suggesting that there may have been virtually identical variants as made elsewhere, not necessarily Germany. A machine shop could replicate that piece pretty easily.....so connecting the original to a german specific piece seem very plausible, just not provable. Im anal like that Gabe....you know that.

The green look of my M9 is surely not bluing.

 

[lonepigeon]

Originally posted by Durasteel Corporation@Oct 2 2005, 09:51 PM
...but I dont see any affirmed and absolute proof that it was made specifically for the MG81, or in any quantity, or who actually made it.

The guys I spoke with were very adamant that gazillions of these guns were shipped to and replicated in dozens of countries other than germany.  Even the chinese and japanese apparently used them. 

I dont think its wise to bank on any more specifics until we have a verifiable part number and affired location....which may never happen.

The part number is C14. Check the manual.
The variation without the cone is C11.
Drew, these "experts" you spoke with sound like they're full of crap...

Not a one could figure out what it where it came from. Although a few ideas kept popping up.
1] it was an asian made piece or eastern european piece with very little reference for us to go on in the west
2] it was an extremely small experimental run--There were apparently a zillion modified parts for these guns.
3] or it was a combination of two parts, base and cone

They have never seen or heard of a piece that's listed in the MG81 manual?

We know it's German made, at least as much as a Sterling is British made.
Sterlings have a few minor variations depending where they came from so I think I see what you're getting at.
The thing is the part is listed in the actual gun manual. The diagram matches the piece we're looking for. We have several pics of the thing on MG81's and even MG81's with these suppressors mounted on German planes. Several other gun experts confirmed the piece and even own the actual things. They were even helpful enough to describe the known variations.

We also have nice full color pics of the suppressor on the actual prop.

What further proof or facts do you think we're lacking?

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

Drew, these "experts" you spoke with sound like they're full of crap...

whoa, hold on their Chris, ease up a bit. Remember you were pretty convinced the other direction so dont jump on me for wanting to be absolutely sure about this thing. This is where I went. http://www.brpguns.com/ I dont know the extent of their knowledge, they seemed to know a great deal about 34, 43, 81....etc

Several other gun experts confirmed the piece and even own the actual things.

We all know that "confirmations" can be a slippery slope. This is NOT to say I doubt the existance of the original flash hider...just a little maintained wisdom throughout the process.

Sterlings have a few minor variations depending where they came from so I think I see what you're getting at

Yes Im speaking of variations. A part might look identical but until you hold it up close there is always a doubt...


I mean....didnt this thread start with a healthy does of firenozzle skepticism? Im just holding onto a hair of skepticism until I see these originals and very high res photos against the known prop.

Chill guys....I DID work with yall on finding this thing....no need to bust my balls for wanting to maintain a uber thorough screening of this thing.

 

[gavidoc]

WWII:

Most US made rifles were blued. Machineguns were blued. US made pistols were blued till mid 1942. After which they were parkerized. At some point in 1943 rifles were also being produced with parkerized finishes.

What am I getting at? Most of the world's militaries used blued firearms till mid-years of WWII. The only one that used parkerized finished weapons with any sort of regularity during WWII was the US (AFAIK).

All the firearms I have ever seen that were of German manufacture were hot blued. I have never seen a mauser M98, k98 (or any country variants) with anything other then a blued finish. I have never seen an MP39 or an MP40 in anything other then a blued finish.

I have never seen an MG34 or an MG42 in anything other then a blued finish.

Looking at the pre shot, that is a blued suppressor that has had the bluing patina over the years and a nice layer of rust has developed under the bluing.

Want an example of a similar finish to that suppressor to show that it is patinaed blueing? Here you go.

Here is what the typical green-gray parkerizing of WWII US firearms looks like.

Drew, you might be very knowlegable about medieval armor, but I know quite a bit about US issued pistols from WWI and WWII and what their finishes look like. That is a rusted blued flash suppressor. It looks too damn smooth to be a parkerized item.

 

[gavidoc]

Other countries that manufactured firearms for Mauser.

Czech: Blued

Turkey (post WWII): Blued

German: Blued

Norway and Belgium also made Mausers after they were taken over by the Nazis. Yugoslavia also made them after WWII. They were all blued firearms as well.

Everything Mauser ever made was blued.

 

[phase pistol]

I did my standard color-correction job to the aforeposted pic, if that helps at all.

k

 

[Prop Runner]

No. It didn't. Go away.

:lol

- Gabe

 

[phase pistol]

 

[Prop Runner]

Aw, Karl - you know I'm messing with ya.

Thanks for the hue correction - always hated that flourescent sheen.

- Gabe

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

Thanks Gav. Good points.

There are LOTs of metal darkeners often called blueing

Okay, let me get super anal on ya....what type of blueing and/or finishing? How about:

Bone Charcoal Case Coloring
Cyanide Case Coloring
Carbonia & Charcoal Blueing
Slow Rust Blueing
Nitre Blueing
True Bluing
Cold blueing


Bluing is known to have been used as early as the 14th century, probably before. Best known case is probably the Edward IV, known as the Black Prince....presumably because he wore blued armour. In case anyone is interested: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jhsy/chaucer-ppp-bp.html

 

[phase pistol]

Yeah I know.

(that was directed at Gabe BTW... the interposition of the factual posting by Durasteel makes me look like I was being a smartass. :lol )

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

interposition of the factual posting by Durasteel

oh please, now I feel important....

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

okay, if the flash hider is blued....what then, was done to the scope or gun???

 

[robstyle]

I think the flash hider has seen more action/weather/massive heat than the Mauser and scope. The scope is a different metal that the flash hider so it will wear differently over time with its finish which was probly painted. The Mauser would have been cared for as it was owned by a prop house. Flash hider was probly in a box of parts rotting away uncared for, poor guy.

Just my take on it.

 

[Prop Runner]

Rob,

Actually, if it's simply a blued part with mild rust underneath, as Gav has postulated, then back in 1975 that would have been a 30+ year old part - damn good condition for one, if you ask me.

Just because Bapty stored and cared for its weapons between productions doesn't mean they didn't get thoroughly punished on the set - look at the Naked Runner Mauser - it's in the grass, on the ground, probably gets knocked around (haven't actually seen the movie) and the "Sitting Target" prop also probably got manhandled a bit - actors don't have enough respect for guns, I'm sure... By contrast, most service pistols usually only come into contact with a padded box, a lined drawer, a leather holster, a cleaning matt, or a firing range pillow.

But you're right - blueing will look different on different kinds of steel and will be lighter, darker, shallower, or deeper depending on the heating temperature & duration and thickness of the coat.

I don't own a hero scope, but is it all brass, or only the outer barrel rings and windage/elevation knob?

- Gabe