Glass (Unbreakable Sequel) (Post-release)

[SickleClaw]

I totally agree about the ambiguity of the ending, but based on what we've been shown, I believe the scales are tipped in favor of Elijah's plan working.

First, we have the prior evidence that every single plan he's set in motion has succeeded, & in the case of creating the Horde, even better than he first planned.

Secondly, I believe that Dr Staples reaction shows that her organizations forte was stopping widespread knowledge of supers from reaching the masses. Now that that info is out there, it could be more than they're prepared to handle. Although it wasn't explicitly stated in either UNBREAKABLE or SPLIT, I think the evidence of their machinations is apparent, with David commenting that there was no evidence of anyone else like him, the several news clippings that Elijah had that seemed like they didn't pan out, & the peers of Kevin's therapist trying very hard to persuade her to not present her theories about DID.

Lastly, we have the three 'survivors', if you will, continuing on, not as David or Kevin, who they were close with, but instead as true believers like Elijah. Maybe the footage gets suppressed, which I think the news report shows it wasn't, or the group tries to discredit it. The three have access & the ability to keep putting out the message, & the end result wasn't necessarily for the world at large to 'believe', but was too instead inspire those with abilities that they thought were handicaps or limitations, to realize they are powers that can be developed.

All this is just my opinion & how I saw the film. Thanks for discussing it with me.

Yeah I think the movie kind of tricks you a bit with the 'survivors' we are left to think originally at least like Casey or Dunn's son will continue on their legacy. But it turns out in a different way. They are meant to ensure the word will survive and they, along with Ms. Price have the original files of the message. Regarding Glass's plan, I believe he already knew of the possible existence of such an organization, remember how he was clever enough to remove the lens from the surgery the night before? He probably put together the pieces already and realized that it might answer for why the clippings that he had didnt pan out.

 

[CB2001]

Yeah I think the movie kind of tricks you a bit with the 'survivors' we are left to think originally at least like Casey or Dunn's son will continue on their legacy. But it turns out in a different way. They are meant to ensure the word will survive and they, along with Ms. Price have the original files of the message. Regarding Glass's plan, I believe he already knew of the possible existence of such an organization, remember how he was clever enough to remove the lens from the surgery the night before? He probably put together the pieces already and realized that it might answer for why the clippings that he had didnt pan out.

I noticed a funny detail from when Elijah finds an issue of Sentryman and calls David to talk about weaknesses from the first film in regards to the last one. Apparently, in that story he looked at, there's a group called The Coalition of Evil whose job were to "ascertain the weaknesses of every hero." I mean, a lot of people have hypothesized that the Active Comics comic book Elijah first gets may have been a foreshadow of the fight between David and Kevin just from the cover image. So, maybe the Coalition of Evil was a possible hint to the Clover Group (this would explain why Staple says that her group is neither good nor evil. Technically, a villain is the hero of their own story while the hero is the villain. The Clover Group wouldn't see their actions as evil). And it also explains why Elijah believed Staple was lying to them from the start. He had to figure out that they were the ones allowing comics to be made so to sell the idea of being superhuman as something out of fantasy.

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

I think the best detail I've had pointed out, that I totally missed, was the doctor's name. She says she's neutral, taking neither side, or 'in the middle' if you will.

What's in the middle of a comic book?

A Staple.

 

[JD]

The biggest flaw with the plan - and the movie is that just about anyone can fake video showing someone with superpowers with a home computer and a little training/experience.

 

[dascoyne]

MNS makes movies that are against the mainstream and I respect that. I respect that he finances his own films so as not to feel creative pressure from investors.

But I also think MNS is the most formulaic filmmaker in practice today. His formula is about building and defeating expectations. That is all.

Which is why I'm surprised that anyone is disappointed when he demonstrates no inherent affection for his characters. For MNS the characters function only as archetypes to serve the story formula. I will bet that any genuine depth brought to each role is entirely infused by the actor than the director/writer. Which is also why the characterizations in his movies always seem orthogonal to the themes, plot and even dialogue.

In writing MNS does have moments of genuine insight but they tend to be sparse and punctuated by vast chunks of incoherent writing and amateurish directing/editing. It's like a speech writer who is brilliant at slogans but has no idea how to build a cohesive speech. And, after decades of filmmaking, MNS demonstrates no interest in doing anything beyond "slogans."

I'm no fan of MNS and arguably it's a matter of taste. For me watching his movies is like hearing the exact same song on different instruments. To his credit I don't think he promotes himself as being some "great" auteur (... or does he?). I respect that decades of negative feedback don't drive him to become more conventional (wait - was "The Last Airbender" an attempt to make a conventional genre film?). I do applaud his longevity in the industry (but then again he funds his own movies ...) and his ability to market his name as a brand despite a career of amateurish movies.

 

[mattycsi]

The biggest flaw with the plan - and the movie is that just about anyone can fake video showing someone with superpowers with a home computer and a little training/experience.

I dont think that matters so much.
Take some footage from a satellite/shuttle of the world to a flat earth channel and they will claim its been manipulated by NASA.
There will always be people that will deny whats right in front of them.
Mr Glass doesn't care about those people or the general populace really. He is only looking to hit those that are different, to show them that they are not alone and are special.
This is highlighted when David has his face in the puddle and Staple asks him if she got close to convincing him he is normal. Clearly she didn't.
When one of the "specials" sees that footage, they would be convinced that they are something more and belong in that group.
That is Glass' plan, to reach them and make them rise up. He's not interested in the opinions or astonishment of the regular public.
He creates superheroes.

In the Marvel universe, how many people would have thought Hulk or Iron Man was video trickery and cgi when they emerged? Probably a hell of a lot, but we're not shown it and are led to believe that they are accepted as real as soon as they are outed to the public.

Also, there is nothing in any of the movies that suggests that universe is infested with the cynical, fake news conspiracist mentalities of our own reality.

 

[JD]

It mattered enough. I found it a huge gaping flaw that made what could have been a decent flick worse. Glass might've been trying to reach other people with abilities - but, saying footage like that made the news is bordering on absurd. We could probably find hundreds of YouTube clips with believable enough effects - those don't make the news.

This isn't the Marvel Universe - that universe isn't trying to convince us that superheroes exist, it isn't about that. Exposing people with powers isn't an aspect of the MU, it isn't the main goal of those movies (or comics).

 

[mattycsi]

It mattered enough. I found it a huge gaping flaw that made what could have been a decent flick worse. Glass might've been trying to reach other people with abilities - but, saying footage like that made the news is bordering on absurd. We could probably find hundreds of YouTube clips with believable enough effects - those don't make the news.

This isn't the Marvel Universe - that universe isn't trying to convince us that superheroes exist, it isn't about that. Exposing people with powers isn't an aspect of the MU, it isn't the main goal of those movies (or comics).

So, you have a serial killer, mass murderer and a vigilante break out of high security mental facility and fight to death in the car park with multiple fatalities and you dont think that would make the news?!!!
What the hell goes on where you live that would even come close to topping that story?
Even without potential super powers, that is going national.

 

[JD]

So, you have a serial killer, mass murderer and a vigilante break out of high security mental facility and fight to death in the car park with multiple fatalities and you dont think that would make the news?!!!
What the hell goes on where you live that would even come close to topping that story?
Even without potential super powers, that is going national.

That brings up another thing... why are these guys in a (not really high security*) mental facility? Part of the setup of this seemed to imply to me that they were brought here under the radar, not booked or charged with anything and given to the Staple for three days prior to anything formal. The water tank and and strobes might be considered cruel and unusual punishment.

This quote from Forbes echoes my thoughts about this:
"There’s also the fact that the footage Glass obtained was kind of underwhelming; if I saw a video of two guys fighting in a parking lot, shoving cars around, I would watch until the end, and scroll down to see the next gif.

Sure, the video indicates super strength, but doesn’t exactly prove it. Modern internet users would react with little more than a “surprised” emoji and then move on to whatever Trump said today."

I think that sums it up.

*No real guards. No guns. Glass easily managed to get around.

 

[mattycsi]

I think it was Staple's people that apprehended and took them there, it was the Clover group that responded when they got out. Probably their facility too.

The 3 day thing, she was always planning to kill them. They were just trying to learn what they could. I don't think the real authorities knew that David and Kevin were there and were never going to. There was no 3 day issue on Glass.

I agree on the security, could've been more guards possibly armed. But the locks, surveillance, controls etc were high end. The tank and lights probably not on the official records.

Glass could get around so easy as he's been there for 20 years and is super smart, he has it figured out. I don't need to be spoonfed the exact logistics of that.

A lot of people would just go past it and click the next one. A lot of people also wouldn't.
Again, we're not expected to believe the whole world is hanging on this footage, just that it got out there and potentially seen by a few people that need to see it.

 

[JD]

You seem to be contradicting yourself. On one post you say Staple's people apprehended and took them to their facility. Which suggests that it wasn't the police or anyone in real legal power as we know it - meaning that no one knows that The Horde or Overseer is there.

But, you also say "So, you have a serial killer, mass murderer and a vigilante break out of high security mental facility and fight to death in the car park with multiple fatalities and you dont think that would make the news?!!!"

Well, if the Staple and the Clover folks caught these guys, locked them in their facility and they are a clandestine organization - it makes sense that it would not make the news and would be covered up. The video on the news is the footage Glass put out there.

Again, I just don't think that footage is newsworthy. It's something you see online and scroll past or hear about on Art Bell.

I'm starting to wonder if this M. Night Shyamalan's reboot of Heroes? I mean, the Green Guard even saved the cheerleader at the beginning of the movie.

 

[mattycsi]

You seem to be contradicting yourself. On one post you say Staple's people apprehended and took them to their facility. Which suggests that it wasn't the police or anyone in real legal power as we know it - meaning that no one knows that The Horde or Overseer is there.

But, you also say "So, you have a serial killer, mass murderer and a vigilante break out of high security mental facility and fight to death in the car park with multiple fatalities and you dont think that would make the news?!!!"

Well, if the Staple and the Clover folks caught these guys, locked them in their facility and they are a clandestine organization - it makes sense that it would not make the news and would be covered up. The video on the news is the footage Glass put out there.

That is what I'm saying. General public dont know they were caught until the footage is released, hence its news worthy for a couple of reasons. I'm not seeing a contradiction there at all.

Where my theory does fall down, is the school principle/counsellor telling Casey about the Horde's apprehension. Even if the school person is part of Clover, i think that clouds things up a fair bit.

I'm starting to wonder if this M. Night Shyamalan's reboot of Heroes? I mean, the Green Guard even saved the cheerleader at the beginning of the movie.

Now that made me literally laugh out loud. Brilliant

 

[Bigdaddy]

Echoing JD's post, if Clover has them in a secret facility and nobody knows they are locked up, then it's not headline news if they breakout, even once the footage is posted on the internet. I kind of assumed the facility was run by Clover, why would a REAL doctor install the water system in David's cell? Staple was obvious as a villain from the start, she was played a little too creepy so the reveal was sort of a given at the end. Ironically the fake plan that Glass proposed would be much more effective to reveal super humans, in a public place with hundreds of independently shot videos and likely thousands of eyewitnesses (that's why the Avengers are known to exist in their universe, thousands of eyewitnesses). Glass tells David he's only used a small portion of his power so far and the Beast will require David's full potential. That build up fell flat, we didn't see him do much other than dent a door, bend a bar and push 4 guys around. All of it easy to fake in a video, unlikely to convince anyone that super humans exist and even less likely to go viral on the internet today. MAYBE, if they had an actual super human fight it would have gotten more exposure and convinced other dormant or unknown supers to come forward but not the less than spectacular fight MNS shot. It felt like McAvoy and Willis weren't on set together and it was edited with body doubles to make it vaguely look like them fighting.
Kevin's origin was the same twist as David's in Unbreakable, that felt like lazy writing to me and made the universe "small" which takes away from the " real" world feel the films set up.
That final scene in the train station was rediculous, that's not how a viral video gets around, again pulled me further out of the story and at a point with no chance to bring me back in.
I wanted to love this movie, even though everything I've seen from MNS after Unbreakable has been at best amateur and at worst crap. My daughter saw Split last year and kept begging me to watch it (mainly because of the end), I didn't bother until I heard I read about Glass (spoiled the end of Split but still a decent thriller) I'm a little irritated with myself for having shelled out $85 to take the family to the theater, this was definitely a Redbox movie.
Making a quality sequel is tough enough but picking up the story 15 years down the road is even harder. Especially when it's a story that doesn't NEED a sequel. Unbreakable is a great movie and self contained story, easily in my top 5 superhero movies and head and shoulders above any of the Marvel movies in terms of originality, acting and story. It stands alone on my movie shelf and will continue to.

 

[mattycsi]

I agree that sitting in the train station waiting for a video to go viral is lame, and confusing, it took me a moment to figure out what was going on there.

Regardless of who runs the facility, or why they are there or who knows theyre there, you will never convince me that footage of a "wanted" lunatic serial killer fighting a local legend vigilante whilst a mass murderer watches on is not news worthy!

If no one knows they are there it actually becomes more news worthy because now there is a massive integrity of justice and conspiracy angle to go with it.

 

[JD]

Regardless of who runs the facility, or why they are there or who knows theyre there, you will never convince me that footage of a "wanted" lunatic serial killer fighting a local legend vigilante whilst a mass murderer watches on is not news worthy!

That's unfortunate. The footage could be anyone - a legend is just that, a legend... while there was other footage of Dunn, he's still an unknown. Likewise, since Clover would have disposed of the bodies, there's really nothing to tie Kevin to the scene except for security footage leaked on the internet.

So we have a superhero legend and alleged murderer. Perfect fanboy fodder. There's nothing credible that would suggest anything but a few cosplayers having fun. This is the type of footage that's on Reddit and sites like that - not the local news.

Don't get me wrong - I'm glad it worked for you. I loved Split and Unbreakable; but, Glass was just a disappointment that gets worse the more I read and look into the story. I think there was a stronger story to be told here. For the most part, I'm a big fan of MNS and think his strengths outweigh his weaknesses.

 

[mattycsi]

It's strange how things work out. I'm not really a fan of his, Unbreakable was the last MNS film I liked until Split.

If nothing else, you have to agree, Hedwig was funny.

 

[CB2001]

Apparently, there was more to Glass that was cut. As to if we'll ever get to see the cut scenes, we'll never know. SPOILER WARNING, BTW.

Also, apparently, the original ending would have had it where the footage may have been dismissed as a hoax due to the change in who the Clover Group really is.

 

[dascoyne]

... so you're saying the studio cut Glass?














I'm sorry. It's late.

 

[CB2001]

... so you're saying the studio cut Glass?

I'm sorry. It's late.

First off, shame on you. XD

From what the video explains, M. Night filmed the entirety of his script and he was the one who edited it and he went back to do reshoots as well. So, the choices made were his.

 

[annanake]

Good flick .
definitely a fantasy movie as a viral video would not change the world . It would be forgotten as soon as the next farting car video pops up .
But I don't go to the movies to watch documentaries so I rather enjoyed it .