GHOSTBUSTERS Pre-Release - film discussion only, no social commentary please!

As I've mentioned (I think in the other thread?), I don't see the Russo Bros. thing as a real "flip flop" exactly. My sense is that Amy Pascal wanted a stable of talent with proven track records of making money under her roof. Towards that end, she liked the idea of the Russo Bros. working for her, along with Chris Pratt and Channing Tatum. All of those names are associated with bringing in big bucks lately. They're all hot names. So is Paul Feig, for that matter. .


I would call it a flip flop, because in one of the emails, they stated they where worried about what public reaction would be if they reneged on the feig version so soon after announcing it.. they where like kids in a candy shop, salivating at one idea after another, with no real clear vision on where to go. although you might be right about the stable of talent idea because they also didn't want to insult feig, which they did anyway.

I think they care about public opinion only enough to make sure their film isn't a TOTAL 100% flop. hence why they probably abandoned the original idea of being totally different.


and yes, the city for a reboot doesn't matter. that's why I remember hearing nothing about new york, up until the idea that it would be set in boston got leaked. then, a few weeks later, feig did an interview somewhere saying 'of course it'll be set in NY.'. my guess is the idea leaked for public opinion and when it came up negative mostly, feig did damage control...

My guess is sony does care at least a little bit about what the core fans think (at least someone other than amy pascal)... and they flip flop instantly if they think an idea threatens the success of their film.

that's my convoluted, un educated theory anyway, and i'm sticking too it ;o).

- - - Updated - - -

If they cared an ounce about what the few really vocal fans of the old film(s) want (and they don't), we wouldn't be looking at a Feig reboot to begin with.

I'd correct that, only with 'if they cared about the PROPERTY we wouldn't be looking at the reboot to begin with. it's pretty clear they don't care about the integrity of either and just see a logo made of money ;o).
 
I would call it a flip flop, because in one of the emails, they stated they where worried about what public reaction would be if they reneged on the feig version so soon after announcing it.. they where like kids in a candy shop, salivating at one idea after another, with no real clear vision on where to go. although you might be right about the stable of talent idea because they also didn't want to insult feig, which they did anyway.

I think they care about public opinion only enough to make sure their film isn't a TOTAL 100% flop. hence why they probably abandoned the original idea of being totally different.


and yes, the city for a reboot doesn't matter. that's why I remember hearing nothing about new york, up until the idea that it would be set in boston got leaked. then, a few weeks later, feig did an interview somewhere saying 'of course it'll be set in NY.'. my guess is the idea leaked for public opinion and when it came up negative mostly, feig did damage control...

My guess is sony does care at least a little bit about what the core fans think (at least someone other than amy pascal)... and they flip flop instantly if they think an idea threatens the success of their film.

that's my convoluted, un educated theory anyway, and i'm sticking too it ;o).

I mean, you're welcome to your theory, but from reading through the emails, I think you're imputing a degree of intentionality and forethought that just...wasn't there. For them to flipflop or backtrack or whathaveyou, they'd have to have a clear idea of what they wanted to begin with. The email thread suggests that they didn't.

My sense is that there were sort of two camps involved. You had the Akroyd/Reitman camp, which wanted to do a sequel -- a real Ghostbusters 3. The thing is, they'd been in development hell for, like, 20 years with that, and had nothing to show for it. They couldn't get Bill back on board, and everyone knew you couldn't do a sequel without Venkman as a character in it. So, the film was in stasis for a while. When Harold died, my sense is that it took the wind out of the sails of everyone who was hoping for a #3. They didn't have the energy to fight for it anymore.

I think the idea of a reboot was never really fully formed. It was more like "we won't do a sequel the way Danny and Ivan want it." It's not like the decision was "We'll go SO FAR AWAY from the original" but rather "It won't be what those guys said...but I have no idea what it will be."

The decision-making process -- because it was coming from non-creative, business types -- was more focused around how to maximize profit. They knew that they had a solid brand they wanted to leverage. So, what else did they need? More "brands." More proven successes. Feig was having much success at the box office, and so they wanted him.

That, to my view, was where the intentionality ended. There was no plan beyond "Get Feig on board." But Feig wasn't interested in a sequel or in connecting to the old continuity. He just wanted to do his thing the way he usually does, because that's what he knows, that's what he's good at, and that's what he's comfortable doing. Pascal was perfectly happy to let him do that, once Reitman backed off, because...she didn't care. She just wanted Feig doing the film. If that meant doing a sequel, fine. If that meant doing a reboot, fine.

Feig's idea, at least on paper, had some different aspects. Different plot points, slightly different origins for the characters and for the team as a whole. They wanted him on board enough to just say "Sure, Paul. Whatever you want." It's not like they said "We're gonna do a reboot, so we need Paul and his idea." It's more like "We need Paul. Give him whatever he wants, as long as the numbers match what we're comfortable with." With Reitman not opposing things, the wheels went into motion.

The Russo thing came after that point, and from the emails, it looks more like "Ooh! More money-making people! Let's get them, too. Oh, crap. They want to do something different from Paul. If we appease them, we lose him. Crap."

I see no flip-flop, because the consistent thread in all of this is grabbing money-making talent, and Pascal never wavered on that point, at least. There was no real consideration for the creative, story-telling side of things, except insofar as it applied to making these creative types happy enough to work for her. If the Russo bros. had showed up first, Pascal might've gone with them and we'd be seeing something different. Maybe a reboot, maybe a sequel. Who knows. But Feig was already signed at that point, so they couldn't very well tank his project by signing these other guys who'd do a conflicting project.


Now we're seeing the callbacks and referential aspects. Whether that was also part of Feig's original vision, I can't say. The emails don't say one way or the other. I could see it being in there, but I could also see the studio saying "We want to reference more back to the original film. Throw in more of that." We can guess at that one, but we have no real info on it, at least not that I've seen.
 
Was it not Reitman that was pushing for nods to the original film? That's the way Feig describes it after their meeting.

https://wikileaks.org/sony/emails/emailid/47409
Yeah, we had a nice meeting with Ivan. I’m open to everything and heard all his ideas. I didn’t commit to any but took away his headlines, some of which I agree with and others that I don’t. But he gets the reboot and that this movie will take place in a different world from the original. He just is looking for nods to the old movie, which Katie has been wanting to do anyway. Will there be as many nods as Ivan would like? Probably not. But at this point, I just want to see how our first draft shakes out and what it can hold and what it can’t and then we’ll take it from there.
(emphasis added)
 
Now we're seeing the callbacks and referential aspects. Whether that was also part of Feig's original vision, I can't say. The emails don't say one way or the other. I could see it being in there, but I could also see the studio saying "We want to reference more back to the original film. Throw in more of that." We can guess at that one, but we have no real info on it, at least not that I've seen.

yeah, I can't remember seeing that in the emails either. all I do remember seeing is them saying they didn't want it connected at all to the original movies....and reitman wanted it all connected. but now we are getting a similar plot, and lots of nods, it might as well be the same movie...so something changed along the way. I can't imagine they did it to appease Reitman. they showed so little regard to what he thought it'd seem odd to start listening to him for just that.

It's probably in there somewhere, or i've forgotten about it.....it was a chore going through all those emails. lots of duplicates I eventually grew tired looking for new info because everything kept repeating itself.

the one thing I do remember though, is that pascal was willing to drop feig in an instant if they could figure out a way to do it without sony looking bad. I was so incredulous that they would actually consider that, after just having made a big announcement like that, that it stuck with me.....i'm amazed it even crossed their minds. it's a wonder anyone wants to work with sony after reading those emails.
 
Even bearing in mind that I have more creativity in my little fingernail than Sony have in their entire executive level, and thus answer my own question... If they were filming in Boston, why not just embrace it and have it set in Boston, with Boston-y stuff that's relevant to the story? It's easy -- just do a find-repalce of "Boston" for all instances of "New York" in the script. :p

--Jonah
 
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/07/ghostbusters-scary-ghosts

all of this sounds like it was paid for by sony. 'you should be in awe of feig'........yeah, that he's such a dip crap to all the old cast members and the idea itself. i'm in awe no one could show that level of disrespect toward a beloved franchise. I can't believe how many people are starting to think 'maybe this could be good'.....and maybe it can be. but as solo said, the whole process of how this got started will forever leave a sour taste in my mouth. all mainly thanks to bill murray. both savior and destroyer of the franchise.

I guess the brand really does trump principal over all.
 
the whole process of how this got started will forever leave a sour taste in my mouth. all mainly thanks to bill murray. both savior and destroyer of the franchise.

I really can't comprehend that. I mean, how hard is this:

EXEC: "Bill doesn't want to do anothe rGhostbusters."
CREATIVE PERSON: "Okay." *proceeds to ignore Bill Murray and write a script that doesn't involve Venkman*

--Jonah
 
I really can't comprehend that. I mean, how hard is this:

EXEC: "Bill doesn't want to do anothe rGhostbusters."
CREATIVE PERSON: "Okay." *proceeds to ignore Bill Murray and write a script that doesn't involve Venkman*

--Jonah

It's not Murray's fault. I think he might have had some creative control over the franchise, but I'm guessing he wouldn't really care as long as the check is in the mail to him.

It's more like Akroyd and Reitman -- guys whom we know had creative control -- were the holdouts. They were pushing various sequel ideas for decades, and the studios weren't interested.

People couldn't see beyond their ideas, apparently, probably because there was no point in entertaining ideas beyond theirs if it'd just end up torpedoed by Dan and Ivan. Why solicit other ideas when you know they're dead on arrival, ya know?

It was only after those two backed off that the real notion of a reboot came into play, and apparently that was largely due to Feig saying "I don't wanna do a sequel."


The blame/credit can be spread around.
 
Even bearing in mind that I have more creativity in my little fingernail than Sony have in their entire executive level, and thus answer my own question... If they were filming in Boston, why not just embrace it and have it set in Boston, with Boston-y stuff that's relevant to the story? It's easy -- just do a find-repalce of "Boston" for all instances of "New York" in the script. :p

--Jonah

If you're going to say that then all movies shot outside of where it's supposed to be set should just do that and say replace X with Y because that's where we're shooting. Face it, tons of productions shoot outside of where they're supposed to be set because, more often than not, it's much cheaper to shoot elsewhere and that's probably the case here, they wanted the story to be set in NY (for whatever reason) but NY was deemed too expensive to shoot in and Boston was offering them a good deal to shoot there. So what do you, as the producer and/or director, with an eye on the budget, do? Do you go with shooting at the locale where your film is set despite the cost and risk going over budget, or go elsewhere that's offering you a much. much better deal and keep within your budget, if not save money?
 
It's not Murray's fault. I think he might have had some creative control over the franchise, but I'm guessing he wouldn't really care as long as the check is in the mail to him.

It's more like Akroyd and Reitman -- guys whom we know had creative control -- were the holdouts. They were pushing various sequel ideas for decades, and the studios weren't interested.

People couldn't see beyond their ideas, apparently, probably because there was no point in entertaining ideas beyond theirs if it'd just end up torpedoed by Dan and Ivan. Why solicit other ideas when you know they're dead on arrival, ya know?

It was only after those two backed off that the real notion of a reboot came into play, and apparently that was largely due to Feig saying "I don't wanna do a sequel."


The blame/credit can be spread around.

Ivan and dan tailored scripts to fit bill murray. seems they where more than flexible. it was bill who was the hold out, claiming to care so much about the franchise that he didn't want to do another lack luster one.

yet, he gave us two garfield movies...so...

it was also bill who, rumored, got the original voice of peter venkman, lorenzo music, fired. oddly enough.
 
trainwreck.gif
 
If you're going to say that then all movies shot outside of where it's supposed to be set should just do that and say replace X with Y because that's where we're shooting. Face it, tons of productions shoot outside of where they're supposed to be set because, more often than not, it's much cheaper to shoot elsewhere and that's probably the case here, they wanted the story to be set in NY (for whatever reason) but NY was deemed too expensive to shoot in and Boston was offering them a good deal to shoot there. So what do you, as the producer and/or director, with an eye on the budget, do? Do you go with shooting at the locale where your film is set despite the cost and risk going over budget, or go elsewhere that's offering you a much. much better deal and keep within your budget, if not save money?

Yeah, plenty of cities and states offer tax breaks for filming there, too. Philadelphia has an actual office within the city government dedicated to promoting film and television development in the Philly area. And the Philly skyline has been used for background shots in TV shows, too (e.g., Arrow season 1). How I Met Your Mother supposedly took place in New York, but it's more like it took place on the studio backlot (which happens to include sets of brownstone walkups similar to what you'd find in Brooklyn and other boroughs in NYC).

That said, I think when a city has a very distinctive, familiar look to it, shooting elsewhere can be tricky. But a lot of that can be hid with 2nd unit stuff, helicopter shots, etc. to kind of put the viewer in the mindset of "Oh, we're in [city] now." That way, when you shoot in close for some scene or other, people won't really be paying attention to the fact that the streets look a lot more like Boston than NYC.

Ivan and dan tailored scripts to fit bill murray. seems they where more than flexible. it was bill who was the hold out, claiming to care so much about the franchise that he didn't want to do another lack luster one.

yet, he gave us two garfield movies...so...

it was also bill who, rumored, got the original voice of peter venkman, lorenzo music, fired. oddly enough.

Huh. I've never heard that about the Lorenzo Music thing. But as far as the Garfield thing goes, caring about one franchise's integrity doesn't mean caring about all of them. I think, basically, that Bill wasn't interested in doing a sequel for the sake of doing a sequel. He'd done that. I suspect that, in theory, he would've gone back for a really good sequel, but my guess is that his definition of "really good" gradually shifted farther and farther from what the guys were coming up with, while he simultaneously shifted more towards doing more serious indie film roles or the odd fun cameo here or there. In other words, his sense of "really good" changed to a point where basically it was impossible to come up with anything that he'd like, because, deep down, he just wasn't all that interested in doing the project. I don't think that necessarily means he viewed himself as a stalwart custodian of the franchise. More like he didn't want to do a crappy cash-in sequel...again.

VO work for a cartoon Garfield or the GB game, though, is easy money, so why wouldn't he do it? He can show up in pajamas, smelling like last night's taco dinner, and nobody cares as long as he nails his dialogue. And, truth be told, he didn't even really "nail" his dialogue in the GB game. He sounded pretty uninterested most of the time. Less sardonic, more bored.
 
True - his video game lines sound like the first take each time.

For what it's worth, in defense of Venkman: Bill does claim to be very proud of and impressed by the first film and seemed to want there to be a quality entry if he were to be involved in another sequel. He claims he thought Garfield's director Joel Cohen was Joel Coen (of the Coen brothers) and that convinced him to sign on. That certainly would have been an interesting film... And as far as the original Garfield voice actor (Lorenzo Music) being released from RGB, the way Murray tells it he simply asked "why does Harold's guy sound exactly like him and my guy sounds like Garfield?" That led the producers to hiring Dave Coulier for a closer impersonation the following season.

The Coen thing sounds ridiculous, but with a guy like Murray, who knows? In any case, there are versions of each of these events that could make him sound like a control freak, a tyrant, an elitist, a particular artist/eccentric aging comedian with immense talent. I've never seen any hard reason to believe he's anything but the last, and he's earned the right to pick and choose his interests regarding his work.
 
True - his video game lines sound like the first take each time.

The Coen thing sounds ridiculous, but with a guy like Murray, who knows? In any case, there are versions of each of these events that could make him sound like a control freak, a tyrant, an elitist, a particular artist/eccentric aging comedian with immense talent. I've never seen any hard reason to believe he's anything but the last, and he's earned the right to pick and choose his interests regarding his work.

yeah, his video game lines where a dissapointment. like he slept them in.

and no one says he hasn't... but if he cares so much, he could have at least tried to help things along rather than hinder. either that, or sold his rights and they could have done a movie without him. it's really that simple.
 
yeah, his video game lines where a dissapointment. like he slept them in.

and no one says he hasn't... but if he cares so much, he could have at least tried to help things along rather than hinder. either that, or sold his rights and they could have done a movie without him. it's really that simple.

I don't believe Murray's ever been said to have tried to hold up a single Venkman-less Ghostbusters project. Dan and Ivan were happy to write around him, too. Sony didn't think a sequel without him would be bankable enough, so they kept trying to come up with one he'd be up for. Much like I don't criticize Feig for sticking to the movies he wants to make, Murray's earned the right to be selective in his career. The problem, as usual, lies with Sony.
 
I personally blame the second Ghostbuster film.

it.
was.
HORRIBLE.

After that I can see not wanting to touch the idea again with a 20ft pole,all the big wigs see are $$$$ with tie ins to a cartoon and more $$$ from kids so it turns into the titanic.
problem is two is there so whatta you gonna do? me I'd ignore it and start after the first one again and see if it could be done right this time.

You have to realize a lot of the movies from the 80's and 90's got exploded that way...look at Batman for gawds sake,they wasn't ANY reason for it to get that stupid but it did sell toys....
 
yes, he has. but you can't argue that he's chosen to do terrible projects before....he could have at least helped ghostbusters pass the torch, even if he was only in it for a few minutes.

Ithink he's as much to blame as sony. only he's earned a little more respect from all the great projects he's given us from the past.
 
This thread is more than 7 years old.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. This thread hasn't been active in some time. A new post in this thread might not contribute constructively to this discussion after so long.
If you wish to reply despite these issues, check the box below before replying.
Be aware that malicious compliance may result in more severe penalties.
Back
Top