Ghostbusters movie by Paul Feig

To be completely fair, I think that "crud" consists of at least as much uninformed, aggressive garbage as it does backlash against that garbage... If we could stem those inflammatory posts, as I've been saying for a while now, we could have a much more interesting discussion.

You've got a point in that there are some useless fanboy complaints in here. I don't get many of the more nuanced issues (non-issues) or narrative issues people are claiming with the pack. Yet, somehow, I resist the urge to quote them and use something irrelevant to burn down their complaints as has happened almost every time someone's posted something well-considered. It's the actual problems with this film that some members can't seem to abide...
 
These are fair points and I, for one, apologize for derailing valid discussion of what any of us know about the film so far. Expecting a thread about a movie to be optimistic at all costs is unreasonable.

I actually don't disagree with much of the legit criticism of the film or props so far - I agree things aren't looking great, especially considering the long and ridiculous road Sony has forced upon a film it seems nobody really wanted or needed in the first place.

That said, for my part, I don't think it's out of line to call out sexism on this thread. Hating the prop isn't sexist. Assuming the film will be filled with broken nails, synced menstrual cycles and glitter is absolutely, undeniably, offensively sexist. To be fair, it's also hideously outdated, cynical and, if you have seen any of Feig's movies or understand at all why a lot of great female comedians continue to work with him, preposterous.

It's 2015. We as a group and individuals should be above that. Period (pun intended).


Sorry, but the reason you look like a troll might be because you completely failed at reading comprehension in the post you're talking about. He wasn't saying that it will have hearts and glitter because it's women, he was actually blasting it for doing that. He was actually posting against what you are now calling him ignorant for supporting.

Also, not for nothing, but have YOU seen any of Feigs movies? Trying to pretend that he never goes for the cheap stereotype is like saying Mel Brooks wont include any Jewish jokes in his next film. For Gods sake he even had the blue collar cop character with the Irish accent (who we like, as opposed to the really shallow good looking rich guy who doesnt want a relationship). I actually liked that movie, but when you stand there on the same page as the heart sticker and say he NEVER goes for the cheap gag, it becomes hard to image how anyone could NOT consider you a troll.
 
Not at all. The casting of a film should follow its story.

That's not what you said. Even if it was, it doesn't apply here because the story was written yet when Paul decided this is what he wanted to see. When you write a story, you've got to start with ideas. Paul Feig's idea of having an all female team for his reboot of Ghostbusters was one of those ideas. A lot of writers will actually imagine specific actors playing certain roles for their stories WHILE they're still being written. Your argument doesn't work because stories, especially in Hollywood tend to be written with specific things in mind.

You can make anything into a sexist issue if you're willing to try hard enough.

I didn't even have to try. One more time with emphasis.

When a discussion about what should come next for GHOSTBUSTERS begins with "well, women are just as funny as men, let's start there" you know you're talking to the wrong guy.

You are not leaving much room for any other interpretation. The thing that made Paul Feig the wrong guy for you was "women are just as funny as men, let's start there". You even use the phrases "begins with" and "let's start there" as though the whole movie is Dead on Arrival for merely starting with the idea of having women as the leads. Great story? Great characters? Great fun? All Irrelevant if the director started out with women for their leads.
 
(for the record, I wasn't callin' Dak a troll! That Jlee guy is the first person I've blocked in fifteen years.)
 
That's not what you said. Even if it was, it doesn't apply here because the story was written yet when Paul decided this is what he wanted to see. When you write a story, you've got to start with ideas. Paul Feig's idea of having an all female team for his reboot of Ghostbusters was one of those ideas. A lot of writers will actually imagine specific actors playing certain roles for their stories WHILE they're still being written. Your argument doesn't work because stories, especially in Hollywood tend to be written with specific things in mind.

I'm trying to be patient because I recognize that you don't even realize you're twisting my meaning or taking it out of context, but this is becoming really frustrating. The problem is that we're starting from different places. My argument happens at a point when Sony can shepherd the project in any direction and have not yet hired Paul Feig, and people keep insisting that my approach wouldn't let Paul Feig be true to his creative vision. Why would it?

Again, Paul Feig is not wrong to say that women are as funny as men or that a story can be made with a primarily female cast. I would never argue against that. I simply wish that the shepherds of the franchise would have been thinking about the franchise at all when making decisions for it.

If you've inherited a property like Ghostbusters and you're meeting with directors, your interests should be in the long-term health of the franchise/story and the long-term investment of your shareholders (should you argue that Hollywood is only a business - I'd argue that making great films is a great long-term strategy). Your first question when you sit down should be "What would you do with GHOSTBUSTERS?" or perhaps to bounce off of them the directions that the creators/producers have been considering for it. Their answer should tell you if they might be right for your property. In this case, Amy Pascal had this interaction with Paul Feig and was told "I don't want to do Ghostbusters." By her account, he refused her three times. If you're the keeper of Ghostbusters and you've got any consideration at all for what you're building, at what point do you walk away? But gosh darnit, Paul Feig kept sitting atop the box office with his comedies and, well, Ghostbusters was a comedy. They decided they MUST have him. Ask again. Feig likes what he's doing, and tells them he'll do it if he can keep doing that thing under the Ghostbusters name - and insists that the previous iterations be thrown out with it. He MUST start from scratch. I don't care if that condition is an all-female ghostbusting crew, that it be claymation, or that they only hire European crew for the production - at that point, Amy Pascal should have said "we'd like to consider the story first, and probably keep continuity with the old films unless there's a great reason not to as we explore the story." They didn't.

Paul Feig's premise was a social commentary, not a plot idea. The fact that he's RIGHT doesn't mean that the people in charge of Ghostbusters should put that conceit ahead of the franchise. They were very concerned with what would appeal to Paul Feig, with virtually no consideration for what would be best for the franchise. Read the interviews, read the Sony emails, read the trades before you argue against that, please. It barely tok Sony any time at all to wish they could backpedal on the Feig arrangement. Really inspiring.

EDIT: Really, it's less than that. Feig wasn't fighting for feminism or anything. He kept saying no because he wanted to keep doing what he was doing. He liked his job. That wasn't just about female casts, that was about original stories. He was in the middle of something, wasn't done with that sandbox, and Sony kept bugging him to "come on Paul, just make us a quick Ghostbusters!" I want to be careful not to give Sony any feminist street cred through this project.

How about this? I believe women and men are of entirely equal comedic and artistic ability. Please, to anyone who would insinuate otherwise, you are presuming incorrectly and I've set the record straight. Do not continue to misconstrue my words, because if you find that meaning in them that's all you're doing. Keep turning it over until you can see past your projections, please.




You are not leaving much room for any other interpretation. The thing that made Paul Feig the wrong guy for you was "women are just as funny as men, let's start there". You even use the phrases "begins with" and "let's start there" as though the whole movie is Dead on Arrival for merely starting with the idea of having women as the leads. Great story? Great characters? Great fun? All Irrelevant if the director started out with women for their leads.

"Begins with, "Let's start there" both referred to studio negotiations looking for a director for Ghostbusters. Not Feig's resulting story/movie. Again, you can find sexism in anything if you'll try hard enough...
 
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(for the record, I wasn't callin' Dak a troll! That Jlee guy is the first person I've blocked in fifteen years.)

Like I said, if you really think I'm trolling - in violation of the RPF guidelines - go ahead and report me.

The irony is that you're guilty of exactly what you're accusing Jeyl of.

The problem IS that we're starting from different places. You just don't seem to recognize the validity of other people's opinion.
 
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Seriously, how do I get rid of this guy? Can I make it so he can't see my posts?

Feig was the one who insisted he MUST start from scratch. That was his condition, along with an all-female team, that allowed him to take the job. I respect him for sticking to his guns and for doing the work he wants to do. I think Sony is as stupid for giving it to him as they thought they were themselves about a minute after hiring him.

The only "opinions" I'll attempt to correct are others' opinions on what I mean by my words. If I say "Sony's development process was a mess!" and someone argues that it's the way they like to see movies get made, GREAT. If I say pre-production was a mess and someone says "you haven't even seen the movie yet, crybaby. No one raped your childhood," that's not an opinion. It's a waste of time.

You're a troll from where I sit, whether in violation of guidelines or not, because everything you post in response to me is a deliberate twisting of my words and intent, and you can't help but reframe rational discussion as "hurt feelings" when you run out of anything useful to say. Go away, troll.
 
Sorry, but the reason you look like a troll might be because you completely failed at reading comprehension in the post you're talking about. He wasn't saying that it will have hearts and glitter because it's women, he was actually blasting it for doing that. He was actually posting against what you are now calling him ignorant for supporting.

Also, not for nothing, but have YOU seen any of Feigs movies? Trying to pretend that he never goes for the cheap stereotype is like saying Mel Brooks wont include any Jewish jokes in his next film. For Gods sake he even had the blue collar cop character with the Irish accent (who we like, as opposed to the really shallow good looking rich guy who doesnt want a relationship). I actually liked that movie, but when you stand there on the same page as the heart sticker and say he NEVER goes for the cheap gag, it becomes hard to image how anyone could NOT consider you a troll.

I think the heart sticker is more analogous to "Hi There" written on the bomb in Dr. Strangelove - an ironically cutesy addition to a deadly nuclear weapon. The post you're referring to bothered me because it only assumed that the heart was an unironic gesture made purely to "girl" up the film.

While I did and do understand that that post was meant to blast that creative choice, I think that the rest of the post was, in essence, saying "This movie will be full of girly BS," which I think is a) a fallacy and b) assumes that a female-centric GB film will necessarily be worse, cheaper and stupider than a film that is not female-centric. That's sexist and I don't think it's true.

I don't know how taking issue with that makes me look like a troll at all, and it wasn't my intention. I think the assertion that "girl jokes bad, man jokes better" is pretty trolly as well, and his reply to my reply, "wah wah wah," is, how do you say, textbook troll behavior. Which is why I summarily ignored it.

I've seen several of Feig's films, and while I think he mostly tends to just flip the gender roles in standard movie tropes (like Bridesmaids and The Heat), I think he does it with, at the least, respect to the women in his cast and in his audience. The idea that he would go out of his way to make this movie stupid and girly for the sake of making it stupid and girly is, yes, ignorant.

I never once said Feig "never goes for the cheap laugh." He does that all the time. But he doesn't do it at the expense of women in general, which is what the post you're referring to was, at best, accusing him of.

(for the record, I wasn't callin' Dak a troll! That Jlee guy is the first person I've blocked in fifteen years.)

Thanks man.
 
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I'm trying to be patient because I recognize that you don't even realize you're twisting my meaning or taking it out of context, but this is becoming really frustrating. The problem is that we're starting from different places. My argument happens at a point when Sony can shepherd the project in any direction and have not yet hired Paul Feig, and people keep insisting that my approach wouldn't let Paul Feig be true to his creative vision. Why would it?

Again, Paul Feig is not wrong to say that women are as funny as men or that a story can be made with a primarily female cast. I would never argue against that. I simply wish that the shepherds of the franchise would have been thinking about the franchise at all when making decisions for it.

If you've inherited a property like Ghostbusters and you're meeting with directors, your interests should be in the long-term health of the franchise/story and the long-term investment of your shareholders (should you argue that Hollywood is only a business - I'd argue that making great films is a great long-term strategy). Your first question when you sit down should be "What would you do with GHOSTBUSTERS?" or perhaps to bounce off of them the directions that the creators/producers have been considering for it. Their answer should tell you if they might be right for your property. In this case, Amy Pascal had this interaction with Paul Feig and was told "I don't want to do Ghostbusters." By her account, he refused her three times. If you're the keeper of Ghostbusters and you've got any consideration at all for what you're building, at what point do you walk away? But gosh darnit, Paul Feig kept sitting atop the box office with his comedies and, well, Ghostbusters was a comedy. They decided they MUST have him. Ask again. Feig likes what he's doing, and tells them he'll do it if he can keep doing that thing under the Ghostbusters name - and insists that the previous iterations be thrown out with it. He MUST start from scratch. I don't care if that condition is an all-female ghostbusting crew, that it be claymation, or that they only hire European crew for the production - at that point, Amy Pascal should have said "we'd like to consider the story first, and probably keep continuity with the old films unless there's a great reason not to as we explore the story." They didn't.

Paul Feig's premise was a social commentary, not a plot idea. The fact that he's RIGHT doesn't mean that the people in charge of Ghostbusters should put that conceit ahead of the franchise. They were very concerned with what would appeal to Paul Feig, with virtually no consideration for what would be best for the franchise. Read the interviews, read the Sony emails, read the trades before you argue against that, please. It barely tok Sony any time at all to wish they could backpedal on the Feig arrangement. Really inspiring.

EDIT: Really, it's less than that. Feig wasn't fighting for feminism or anything. He kept saying no because he wanted to keep doing what he was doing. He liked his job. That wasn't just about female casts, that was about original stories. He was in the middle of something, wasn't done with that sandbox, and Sony kept bugging him to "come on Paul, just make us a quick Ghostbusters!" I want to be careful not to give Sony any feminist street cred through this project.

How about this? I believe women and men are of entirely equal comedic and artistic ability. Please, to anyone who would insinuate otherwise, you are presuming incorrectly and I've set the record straight. Do not continue to misconstrue my words, because if you find that meaning in them that's all you're doing. Keep turning it over until you can see past your projections, please.






"Begins with, "Let's start there" both referred to studio negotiations looking for a director for Ghostbusters. Not Feig's resulting story/movie. Again, you can find sexism in anything if you'll try hard enough...

I agree with this 100%. This appears to be a very calculated movie, which sucks.

It's also frustrating that apparently Feig is the only guy anyone trusts to direct a comedy with women in it, and that apparently it's the only kind of movie anyone trusts Paul Feig with. That sucks too.
 
Seriously, how do I get rid of this guy? Can I make it so he can't see my posts?

Feig was the one who insisted he MUST start from scratch. That was his condition, along with an all-female team, that allowed him to take the job. I respect him for sticking to his guns and for doing the work he wants to do. I think Sony is as stupid for giving it to him as they thought they were themselves about a minute after hiring him.

The only "opinions" I'll attempt to correct are others' opinions on what I mean by my words. If I say "Sony's development process was a mess!" and someone argues that it's the way they like to see movies get made, GREAT. If I say pre-production was a mess and someone says "you haven't even seen the movie yet, crybaby. No one raped your childhood," that's not an opinion. It's a waste of time.

You're a troll from where I sit, whether in violation of guidelines or not, because everything you post in response to me is a deliberate twisting of my words and intent, and you can't help but reframe rational discussion as "hurt feelings" when you run out of anything useful to say. Go away, troll.

That's not what you said before you edited it, but whatever. You said "he MUST start from scratch," as if to imply he has no 'right' to the intellectual property of Ghostbusters (a theme that carried through with the logo). That was my original point of contention, mind you, not anything related to sexism.

I don't want to make my posts about you, but you seem to want to keep commenting about me.
 
I think the heart sticker is more analogous to "Hi There" written on the bomb in Dr. Strangelove - an ironically cutesy addition to a deadly nuclear weapon. The post you're referring to bothered me because it only assumed that the heart was an unironic gesture made purely to "girl" up the film.

While I did and do understand that that post was meant to blast that creative choice, I think that the rest of the post was, in essence, saying "This movie will be full of girly BS," which I think is a) a fallacy and b) assumes that a female-centric GB film will necessarily be worse, cheaper and stupider than a film that is not female-centric. That's sexist and I don't think it's true.

I don't know how taking issue with that makes me look like a troll at all, and it wasn't my intention. I think the assertion that "girl jokes bad, man jokes better" is pretty trolly as well, and his reply to my reply, "wah wah wah," is, how do you say, textbook troll behavior. Which is why I summarily ignored it.

I've seen several of Feig's films, and while I think he mostly tends to just flip the gender roles in standard movie tropes (like Bridesmaids and The Heat), I think he does it with, at the least, respect to the women in his cast and in his audience. The idea that he would go out of his way to make this movie stupid and girly for the sake of making it stupid and girly is, yes, ignorant.

I never once said Feig "never goes for the cheap laugh." He does that all the time. But he doesn't do it at the expense of women in general, which is what the post you're referring to was, at best, accusing him of.

I think everything you're saying in this post is perfectly reasonable. And I do apologize for implying that you're a troll. Maybe I was out of line there. But I do still take issue with the accusations of sexism. I don't think it's sexist to call out heart stickers. It's cheap and while I get your point, to me it does smack of being at the expense of the women. To the point where I'm willing to predict right now that at least one of the other characters tells the heart sticker to "man up". I think that's cheap. It's been done

No one can reasonably claim that there are not sexists. But I think in this thread at least, there are almost as many false accusations going around. To the point that every single criticism has been blamed on sexism. There's no nefarious intent...some of us are just naysayers. I've actually been very kind to this movie compared to how I usually am. You should see the venom I throw at tattooed joker and JJTrek.

Maybe we're wrong about the hearts. Maybe it's just an ironic thing, or a character quirk as someone else said...like collecting molds spores and fungus. It's perfectly reasonable to point that out, but going straight to "You hate women!" is unjustified.
 
That's not what you said before you edited it, but whatever. You said "he MUST start from scratch," as if to imply he has no 'right' to the intellectual property of Ghostbusters (a theme that carried through with the logo). That was my original point of contention, mind you, not anything related to sexism.

I don't want to make my posts about you, but you seem to want to keep commenting about me.

If I must - what's not part of what I said before I edited what? My post up there still says "he MUST start from scratch," in its original context. Just like the first time you twisted it. Please block me.
 
A few new pics of the pack surfaced today.
ghostbusters-protonpack-specs1.jpgghostbusters-protonpack-specs2.jpg
 
If I must - what's not part of what I said before I edited what? My post up there still says "he MUST start from scratch," in its original context. Just like the first time you twisted it. Please block me.

How exactly did I "twist" what you said?

I asked you what in the world says Feig "MUST" start from scratch? What magical rulebook of canonicity is this?

Y'all have imagined up a version of this thread that doesn't even exist. Who got called sexist for complaining about the heart stickers?
 
"we'd like to consider the story first, and probably keep continuity with the old films unless there's a great reason not to as we explore the story."

There is a great reason. We introduce audiences to a new take on Ghostbusters that involves a team of women who create the Ghostbusters business when Ghosts start showing up for the first time in this new continuity. Remember, Dan Aykroyd wanted to start the original Ghostbusters movie with the team already being a thing and the film opening with the Ecto-1 rushing out of their headquarters. Ivan Reitman wanted to have the team build up to starting the company from scratch because it would help introduce audiences to the world, the characters and their abilities before they even catch their first ghost. THAT was a crucial element to the film's success which is why it didn't really work if when they tried to repeat it for the second movie. They didn't want to do a movie where they could take the Ghostbusters in a new direction, they wanted to repeat the story from the first film almost verbatim even though it was a sequel.

Paul Feig wanting nothing to do with the originals in terms on continuity? I don't see why that is a bad thing. Read the emails. You'd probably hate every movie coming out to the end of time if you read emails between top studio execs that were never meant to be seen by the public. Making movies is a nasty business, so excuse me for wanting to wait till I see the movie to decide if Feig's direction does the franchise any justice.
 
I agree with this 100%. This appears to be a very calculated movie, which sucks.

...How do you define 'calculated' as a negative when it comes to movie making? Movies have budgets, schedules and time pressure. Any movie that has no calculation is a movie made by a filmmaker with the attention span of a cockroach.
 
...How do you define 'calculated' as a negative when it comes to movie making? Movies have budgets, schedules and time pressure. Any movie that has no calculation is a movie made by a filmmaker with the attention span of a cockroach.

I mean in regards to an existing, beloved franchise. There are too many recent examples to name, but I think in general the imperative of getting the most butts in seats, combined with an existing property that is not exactly begging for a sequel, is often a losing proposition when it comes to the integrity and creative punch of the finished film, especially where the fans are concerned.

I'm with you that consideration for what makes the best film is also calculation, which of course is good. I'm reserving my judgement as I've said many times, but I hope that the executive drama so oft referred to in this thread doesn't end up biting it in the a**.

And again, I hope I'm wrong.
 
I'm trying to be patient because I recognize that you don't even realize you're twisting my meaning or taking it out of context, but this is becoming really frustrating. The problem is that we're starting from different places. My argument happens at a point when Sony can shepherd the project in any direction and have not yet hired Paul Feig, and people keep insisting that my approach wouldn't let Paul Feig be true to his creative vision. Why would it?
.

Anything you say at this point will instantly be twisted around, my friend. it's best if someone bugs someone else, we all put them on the ignore list, and just ignore the quotes you see them in. your lives will be that much better off. you are only feeding the sick jollies people like that get from causing someone to have an aneurism trying not to offend anyone. It's one reason why I totally left one or two message boards myself.
 
I asked you what in the world says Feig "MUST" start from scratch? What magical rulebook of canonicity is this?

:wacko It's not my rule! Feig told Amy Pascal that in order for him to participate, Sony MUST allow him to start from scratch (reboot).
 
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