Ghostbusters 2 Life size Vigo painting

[Art Andrews]

The content of this thread was split from the following thread as it was derailing the original purpose of that thread. Please keep the discussions separated and please keep your posts respectful.

http://www.therpf.com/f13/ghostbusters-2-life-size-vigo-painting-run-100853/

 

[AJ Quick]

Wow . . .nice and clean detail. Not the image used by me, but it looks like the one from GBFans. Have fun with that! I'm out.

Its not mine as far as I know since I never released highres versions of my production Vigo artwork. I will agree with you that it is much higher quality than yours.

I am NOT concerned with losing buisness, or having my toes stepped on. When I did these prints, it was a group effort, and my run was at cost.

Your run was done no where near "at cost" people just buy into that as an excuse to allow you to make them.. along with other printed props that you have made without permission from the current owners (IE.. OMNI Magazine). Of course if you print them without the owners permission just include it as a bundle extra "for free".

I am concerned with someone who's using an image that was created and collaborated on here on the RPF, by someone who has done NONE of the work on the image, or gone to the trouble to even get permission from the various sources to do a printing.

You did not get permission from the person who created the Vigo character, did all the composites and sketches that lead to the Vigo painting, and the guy who did the final print. (all the same person) In fact he was extremely upset by the fact that you were ripping off his work.

You may have gotten permission from one of the artists who did some brush work on the painting but not the guy that actually created it. That's like ripping off the design of a car and getting permission from the guy who installed the windshield wipers.

Your image was ripped off from Flickr on a photo with All Rights Reserved. You guys kept blowing it up until it was bigger and bigger and you can see the errors and poor photoshop effects layers on top. Not worth the approximately $400 you were charging, nor the $50 it actually costs to have them printed. "at cost"

That being said. You have no room to come into this thread and tell this individual he cannot do his prints. I don't think he should based on a ethical standpoint since it really is just printing something out and selling it. I would like to see these become available inexpensively from someone with a good track record and with permission from the original artist...

 

[tripoli]

Ectoman:
Without knowing the cost of what Hotshot paid for his production, shipping and else, it is not fair or rational to declare what his cost was. Your issue is an un-backed accusation based on assumptions.

I know there is bad blood between you two from other boards, you should not be bringing it here as Hotshot has been interacting with members here in an accepted and honorable manner on the RPF. No matter how much you have an issue, the moderators cannot police every other site on the web, they look at what happens here and Hotshot has not had issues here.

You had however threatened legal action which you never backed up on Hotshot's Vigo thread issue as well threatened to bring the studio down here which is a banning offense.

As for lecturing on the ethics of replica props in general is somewhat of a moot point.

I know you want to make a supporting point, but please don't make this into something more that leads to something much more than it should.

 

[Art Andrews]

AJ, I have to agree with tripoli on this one. What exactly is the purpose of your post if not to defame Hotshot? Do you have proof of your accusations or are you simply using this thread as an excuse to bring your external issues here?

 

[Crix]

I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but Hotshot came into this thread all but accusing the OP of stealing 'his' image in what seemed like an attempt to discourage buyers. Something like that should have been kept to PMs and not plastered all over his for sale thread. Considering AJ's (and all of the GB propping community's) troubles with Hotshot, I don't think the comments made were in any way inappropriate.

Superman, best of luck in your sale, if I had space to hang something so large, I'd pick one up in a heartbeat.

 

[AJ Quick]

Did you guys even see how Rhett tried to derail this persons efforts by purporting that he had rights to sell the Vigo prints and this person did not? He came in here demanding the source image to verify that it wasn't the one that Rhett stole off of Flickr. (You can view the progress thread of that image here on the RPF).

I have discussed this at length with Tripoli in the past. He is a known recaster, and is currently selling prints of images he does not own or have the approval to sell. The OMNI magazine is a good example of that, which I believe Tripoli was the moderator in charge of that one. He sold them anyways after all the heat died down.. despite the owner posting publically here on the RPF that he did not want his magazine's value diminished. Rhett sold a bunch of Ghostbusters paper props and included the OMNI cover "for free".

Without knowing the cost of what Hotshot paid for his production, shipping and else, it is not fair or rational to declare what his cost was. Your issue is an un-backed accusation based on assumptions.

They were being sold for anywhere from $200 to $400 for the bigger ones. How can others have theirs printed and sold for $150? I have received a quote from someone who prints on canvas. He said $50 each would be right. Even if I'm off by double or triple. He is making money.. and not selling them "at cost". (Not to mention the printing industrys bulk discount rates).

You had however threatened legal action which you never backed up on Hotshot's Vigo thread issue as well threatened to bring the studio down here which is a banning offense.

I am friends with the creator of the Vigo character. He did the sketches of the character, he did the sketch of the painting.. and he was the one who oversaw the final composite of the Vigo painting (and made the painting itself). Credited in Ghostbusters 2 as the "Vigo Wrangler". I casually informed him that copies of his work were being made and he was upset. If you call that "bringing a studio down here" that's just silly. It is no place of mine to perform legal action, however it was inferred on to me that possible legal action could be taken. You are aware of it as much as I am, should you be banned for mentioning it? I didn't think so.

Knowing that he does not have the approval of the original artist, even though he makes claims that he does is hardly an unbacked accusation. Its a fact. That fact alone has had him get shut down on the OMNI magazine and others like him stopped.

I just don't want to see him here trying to step on this guy who has: a lower price, higher quality source image, no claims of legal right to print these. Its Rhett trying to assert dominance over something that makes him money. He can try to spin things all he wants.. At cost, Free Bonus.. etc. I'm not going to accept that BS. Why the moderators choose to freely ignore it is beyond me.

 

[Art Andrews]

Did you guys even see how Rhett tried to derail this persons efforts by purporting that he had rights to sell the Vigo prints and this person did not?

I am not privy to the entire history you guys have and am more than willing to admit Hotshot came on a bit strongly, and that it could have been handled via PM, but I would say the same of what you are doing. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I don't see Hotshot claiming that he has any rights, only pointing out that as a community, we aren't keen on people taking the work of other community members and using it for financial gain, which it would seem clear that the OP is not doing.

He came in here demanding the source image to verify that it wasn't the one that Rhett stole off of Flickr. (You can view the progress thread of that image here on the RPF).

RPF Link, please. Flickr link, please.

I have discussed this at length with Tripoli in the past. He is a known recaster

By whose definition and in what sense? I am not familiar with Hotshot being a recaster (although I am not denying it either), so if you have some proof, please share it.

despite the owner posting publically here on the RPF that he did not want his magazine's value diminished.

Link?

They were being sold for anywhere from $200 to $400 for the bigger ones. How can others have theirs printed and sold for $150? I have received a quote from someone who prints on canvas. He said $50 each would be right. Even if I'm off by double or triple. He is making money.. and not selling them "at cost". (Not to mention the printing industrys bulk discount rates).

While you may be right, this is an unfair conclusion. Prices vary widely on printing and while one person may be able to gets prints done for cheap, someone else may not. You are making an assumption here on what Hotshot paid but are posting your accusation as fact.

I am friends with the creator of the Vigo character. He did the sketches of the character, he did the sketch of the painting.. and he was the one who oversaw the final composite of the Vigo painting (and made the painting itself). Credited in Ghostbusters 2 as the "Vigo Wrangler". I casually informed him that copies of his work were being made and he was upset. If you call that "bringing a studio down here" that's just silly. It is no place of mine to perform legal action, however it was inferred on to me that possible legal action could be taken. You are aware of it as much as I am, should you be banned for mentioning it? I didn't think so.

Just so we are sure that I am not off base here... you are the guy who runs gbfans.com right? A site, like most prop and costume based sites, that allows or at the very least turns a blind eye to massive copyright infringement, but you have decided to make a copyright infringement stand on this issue with this one person, yet at the same time are encouraging someone else to make the prints. Have I got that right?

Knowing that he does not have the approval of the original artist, even though he makes claims that he does is hardly an unbacked accusation. Its a fact. That fact alone has had him get shut down on the OMNI magazine and others like him stopped.

So, by stopping "others like him", you referring to the hundreds of Ghostbusters fans who are making and selling suits and packs and ghosts traps that are unapproved by the original artists? Again, am I correct in understand the strong stance you are taking against people selling unapproved items?

 

[Crix]

http://www.gbfans.com/Rhett.pdf

I've always found it odd that Hotshot is allowed to run so rampant over here, after all the evidence against him.

Again, sorry Superman for derailing your thread here. Mods, should this Hotshot discussion take place in a separate thread?

-Kris

 

[micdavis]

Wow, those are some lousy parts.

 

[Boomerjinks]

This one time Hotshot saw a thread about a kettle, and he decided to post about how it had black aaaall over it.

 

[Art Andrews]

Crix,

Thanks for the link. Will be looking over it!

http://www.gbfans.com/Rhett.pdf

I've always found it odd that Hotshot is allowed to run so rampant over here, after all the evidence against him.

Again, sorry Superman for derailing your thread here. Mods, should this Hotshot discussion take place in a separate thread?

-Kris

 

[tk1055]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ectoman View Post
He came in here demanding the source image to verify that it wasn't the one that Rhett stole off of Flickr. (You can view the progress thread of that image here on the RPF).
RPF Link, please. Flickr link, please.

Here is the RPF link http://www.therpf.com/f9/vigo-carpatian-62698/ I believe this is the correct one.

 

[AJ Quick]

I can't say I am happy how this thread was split off leaving all of Rhett [LAST NAME REMOVED FOR PRIVACY REASONS] text in the previous thread including the part where he mentions me. Now it just looks like I am coming out of the blue. I was planning on PM'ing you the infromation, but now I think it should be done out in the open.

I don't see Hotshot claiming that he has any rights, only pointing out that as a community, we aren't keen on people taking the work of other community members and using it for financial gain, which it would seem clear that the OP is not doing.

... or gone to the trouble to even get permission from the various sources to do a printing.

He has often claimed that he got permission from the creator of the Vigo character.

RPF Link, please. Flickr link, please.

http://www.therpf.com/f9/vigo-carpatian-62698/
All sizes | Vigo the Carpathian | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
All sizes | Vigo the Carpathian | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

You'll find this as one of the first few posts:

I think a bit of PS could clean that whole size pic up pretty good.

Also notice how the Flickr photos have "All Rights Reserved."

By whose definition and in what sense? I am not familiar with Hotshot being a recaster (although I am not denying it either), so if you have some proof, please share it.

Link?

http://www.gbfans.com/Rhett.pdf

Tripoli has been aware of Rhett's past as a recaster. He was the one who was involved with and I believe prevented the OMNI cover from being sold here.

I can't find everything. I know some of it was handled in PM. I think gjustis was the one who brought attention to it. Here are some remnants:

http://www.therpf.com/f9/ghostbusters-paper-prop-19133/#post928259

Another where Rhett is asked about the OMNI cover and explains that it is untouchable:

http://www.therpf.com/f9/ghostbusters-newspapers-photos-finished-78092/#post1195490

That didn't stop him from giving it away for free. I believe the original thread is now long gone, or in the very least the mention of the OMNI magazine is gone.

 

[Utinni]

I do remember Rhett claiming he had permission to do the Vigo run.

I've been aware of his activities since he first came onto the GB scene when he was shipping out parts that looked NOTHING like his finished product that were advertised, looks like he primed his parts with peanut butter. I know there have been a couple instances of questioning where his masters came from, some of his gun parts look like very rough recasts of some of my parts, 1 part in particular that I purposely made a little different from the screen used packs is something that caught my eye.

There's been so much bad history between HS and the active GB community, not the newbies that don't know what a good cast is compared to a piece of crap. I think the RPF is so broad in terms of films and genres, it's hard for the Mods to see everything going on, on other boards. You guys know all the crap that went on for the GB video game for E3 a couple years ago? eeesh!

Personally I don't trust a word that guy says or his origins/quality of his parts.

- Jeff

 

[d_osborn]

I have received a quote from someone who prints on canvas...

please... DO IT!!!! i have one of eytchison's 8x10 vigo test polaroid prints, similar to the prints you have, and the detail is glorious. easily the best reference of the original painting prop out there, aside from the medium format negatives. there's even a color chip chart on the print to gauge proper color!

unfortunately, my print is of a stand-in on the vigo set, not the painting prop. i would have already made a one-off print, otherwise. i'm sure you would sell the snot out of high-quality vigo prints... glen's a nice guy! i'm sure a little begging and he would be all for it. artist-signed, limited edition 1:1 prints? it's begging to be done...

...or... well... does anyone have connections at ILM and a nice DSLR camera?

 

[Weequay]

please... DO IT!!!! i have one of eytchison's 8x10 vigo test polaroid prints, similar to the prints you have, and the detail is glorious. easily the best reference of the original painting prop out there, aside from the medium format negatives. there's even a color chip chart on the print to gauge proper color!

unfortunately, my print is of a stand-in on the vigo set, not the painting prop. i would have already made a one-off print, otherwise. i'm sure you would sell the snot out of high-quality vigo prints... glen's a nice guy! i'm sure a little begging and he would be all for it. artist-signed, limited edition 1:1 prints? it's begging to be done...

...or... well... does anyone have connections at ILM and a nice DSLR camera?

Agreed! It should be done, and at propper full size this time! lol (it need to be bigger than 8ft tall to be 100% right).

As for the discussion re HS, I have no axe to grind anywhere, but I believe Ectoman was most annoyed at how HS spoke to the original poster regarding whos image it was and if he had permission, when he himself was asked to stop producing his prints by glen!

Weequay

 

[AJ Quick]

I have no plans or intentions to produce any kind of full scale print of the Vigo painting, despite having a copy of the source image, and several production photos: Vigo Painting Production Photos - Reference - Equipment - Ghostbusters Fans

I believe Ectoman was most annoyed at how HS spoke to the original poster regarding whos image it was and if he had permission, when he himself was asked to stop producing his prints by glen!

You are correct here. Hotshot asserted that he had permission to do his runs, despite being asked / told not to by the person who created Vigo and the painting. That coupled with the fact that he has recasted others work and the fact that printing these images which he does not own is essentially the same as recasting.... he should be removed from the site.

The list of people he recasted, and printed. (A list of people he ripped off could be generated and would be longer, I'm sure).

-Brock (phantom50, confirmed his work was recasted. Rhett "Hotshot" claimed it was not a big deal.)
-Charles Walker (propfan, banned for recasting himself had his Proton Gun grips recasted by Rhett.)
-Utinni (suspected his early work was recast)
-Glen Eytchison (creator of the Vigo painting, disapproves of the prints being made)
-Greg Justis (former owner of the OMNI magazine, asked the OMNI magazine to be taken down)

Is that enough?

 

[Art Andrews]

Thanks for the information guys. We will certainly be looking into this a little more deeply. I still maintain that some of the logic being used here is quite faulty and hypocrticial, but despite that fact, there does seem to be an underlying issue. We will take a look and try to decipher what is what.

 

[SeanB13]

I've never bought a kit before, but I have seen some though and I'm wanting to get a couple when I have the money saved up.​

What I want to know is are those proton pack cast parts acceptable by anyone's standards?​

I have seen other kits and they didn't look like that at all, those are really, really bad.​

Or do I just not know what I'm looking at?​

Another thing I don't understand is that at first there's the attitude of ''Well what did you expect? Look how much you got for the price. You get what you pay for.'', then it changes around to his feelings being hurt because of his customers are complaining about how poor the quality is.​

Should I expect to get something of a substandard quality because of the low price offered by the seller?​

 

[ThrowingChicken]

I have to echo what Crix said above. I was there when users began posting their crappy Hotshot resin parts. I was there when he got busted for recasting my good friend Phantom50's ghost trap knobs, and Propfan's (Charles Walker's) proton gun grips. BTW, You guys banned Propfan for recasting John "Namebrand" "Dr Slurpee" Anderson's trigger tip, so if that offense was enough to ban Propfan then I do not quite understand why The RPF has completely overlook Hotshot's wrong doings.

I was not here when Ectoman first brought these issues to the RPF's attention, but I am glad to see they are getting addressed now.

As for the image; it's sort of a secondary issue to me, if not a non issue, but I feel I have to address something Art said. Art brought up the sellers on GBFans and how Ectoman's complaint may be interpreted as hypocritical (though let's also acknowledge that Hotshot's little fuss in Superman's thread was hypocritical, as well stated by Boomerjinx). I am one of those sellers, but I think most people there and here would agree that scratch building and replicating is a bit different from recasting, which is frowned upon in both communities. Is recasting really that far off from taking someone else's photo of someone else's image and selling it? I've had one of my illustrations ripped off and sold as posters, t-shirts, and even as cake toppers. They did a little editing, which was nice of them, but the editing out of my signature and URL from the image didn't feel too different than someone sanding a watermark and seam lines off of one of my casts then giving it the old silicone bath. Hotshot took someone's photo of someone else's image and edited it a little. Is it the same? I don't know. I won't pretend there isn't any grey area there, but just cake toppers for thought.