Female representation in hollywood

[Solo4114]

You're not going to be disappointed either way....

Based on what little snippets I see here and there inadvertently, yeah, I think it'll be a solid film that handles the old school stuff well. We'll see.

I hear there's a female lead!

 

[jlee562]

Not so, but the reality is the poor/under representation of women in popular entertainment has been changing over the past few years, even Jeyl acknowledges that, so it's an issue being addressed. The only complaint therefore is that its either not happening fast enough or is not being implemented correctly. In regards to the former, that may be the case. In regards to the later, that's up for individual opinion. The reason there is the negativity in this thread is a bit of karma. This topic has been interjected in so many threads, often completely without merit like in The Force Awakens discussion, and in a very negative way and people are sick of it. Not the idea of discussing representation of women in films, just having the accusation thrown at every film and TV show being made today. It's tiresome and does nothing to advance the cause.

Ok, but Bryan, I'm already on the same page with you on Jeyl's gripe with TFA.

It's an issue that's being addressed...so....what? End of discussion? We can't discuss our opinions of what's happening?

Rather than just shutting down Jeyl, it's coming across like you and others are trying to shut down the discussion entirely. I apologize in advance if I've misread your intent, but that's what it seems like.

 

[Bryancd]

No, I'm fine with this thread. It's a broad issue worth discussing but not worth discussing every time there is a film release.

 

[dascoyne]

No, I'm fine with this thread. It's a broad issue worth discussing but not worth discussing every time there is a film release.

No it is not a broad issue.
As stated earlier it is relevant to many underrepresented groups - not just the broads.

 

[Bryancd]

Case in point regarding a director we have discussed in other threads, Colin Trevorrow, who was asked about gender representation in blockbuster film directing. I think the author of the article is a bit unfair in how she has chosen to parse his comment and then she engages in a lot of speculation, but here's more to this threads topic to discuss.

http://www.slashfilm.com/colin-trevorrow-female-filmmakers/

 

[Jeyl]

Case in point regarding a director we have discussed in other threads, Colin Trevorrow, who was asked about gender representation in blockbuster film directing. I think the author of the article is a bit unfair in how she has chosen to parse his comment and then she engages in a lot of speculation, but here's more to this threads topic to discuss.

http://www.slashfilm.com/colin-trevorrow-female-filmmakers/

Well just look at the recent trend of DC and Marvel making headlines about how they're looking for a female directors to make their female lead films. The director's gender for those movies are a priority, but in other properties like Thor: The Dark World and Black Panther? Not so much. It's less like they're taking a step forward in the right direction and more like they just want to kill two birds with one stone and get it out of their system. Where Wonder Woman appears to only be getting one movie, there's talk about the new Batman already getting a whole new trilogy. In a sea of endless Marvel films, Captain Marvel is still the only girl in the room with Kevin Fiege not shutting up about how perfectly content he is with with all the Marvel female characters not getting their own movies.

As for Colin's comments regarding female directors only wanting to do projects that don't involve superheroes, spaceships or dinosaurs? I don't think that's the case at all, and I don't think it's gender exclusive either. Even with all the good work that Marvel has done with their property, they've been notorious about being control freaks over the finished product. Even Joss Whedon, following one of the most critical and successful superhero movies of all time still had to fight for scenes he wanted (The Farm which he won) and scenes he really didn't want (The Pool which he lost). When he goes on interview talk shows and says how there are edits he doesn't agree with, moments that didn't work (The pool again) and a version of the film that he submitted that was much longer, I'm not buying the idea that this is a cut he's satisfied with. Also, Edgar Wright. So when I learned that Ava DuVernay was not going to direct Blank Panther, it's not because it's about a super hero. It's because the directors aren't allowed to actually care about the movies they're directing. That's why I'm not so optimistic about Brayncd's assurance that Star Wars will most likely be "Director Proof" when it comes to it's future installments, even if one of them is going to be directed by *sigh* Colin Trevorrow.

 

[Bryancd]

STAR WARS will be 'director proof" because this new regime is STAR WARS by committee, which in this instance is a VERY good thing. We have a dedicated story group with some very talented people who love the franchise deeply, shepherding these films and all other media releases forward. Specific to the films, each director post JJ will have the opportunity to have creative input, guide the story they are telling, and leave their own unique directorial mark. BUT, they won't be given free reign.They know this when they sign on. Even Trevorrow said as much, likening the experience to being invited to sit around a campfire and collaborate with all of these talented people. Disney had the right instinct NOT making SW a franchise ruled by one person.

In regards to Treverrow, it would be categorically unfair to suggest he's some sort of anti-woman in film monster based on that comment. That speaks more to all that is wrong with knee jerk reactions from people online. I don't believe for a second he's not supportive of everything you stand for and yet you see clear to attack him anyway.

 

[Grey]

Can't you enjoy a movie?

No kidding. Every time I see people getting worked up i'm grateful that I don't care. Seems like it would spoil my ability to simply enjoy a movie (a work of complete fiction) without worrying about which societal groups are being offended.

 

[Jeyl]

I don't believe for a second he's not supportive of everything you stand for and yet you see clear to attack him anyway.

I didn't agree with his female directors opinion nor the decisions he made while doing Jurassic Word. Not attacking him because I actually enjoy half the word he's done. Safety Not Guarenteed? Saw in the theaters and loved it. I just can't get over those decisions he made in JW. It's so bizarre.

 

[dascoyne]

... Captain Marvel is still the only girl in the room with Kevin Fiege not shutting up about how perfectly content he is with with all the Marvel female characters not getting their own movies.

*groan*
Feige's position is that the film schedule is dictated by the requirement of the story they want to tell - period.
That's as opposed to the tired formula of starting with "hey, we need a female/black/team/teen superhero film. We'll figure out the plot later but our stats say this the next big thing."

Feige is the only one doing it right because storytelling is the only thing that matters.

Other folks have always made films calculated to anticipate public interest - ("we need a female director for the WW movie") - which is the traditionally passionless and analytical way to make formulaic movies which creates passionless films.

 

[AJTaliesen]

Equality of opportunity should be the goal and standard.

If you're touting equality of outcome, you're no longer treating humans as individuals, but as an amorphous thing called "society" that has only one giant hive brain. A very common, and very destructive mistake.

I think if you want to champion people, you have to start by assuming that they exist as separate life forms.


Just my increasingly unpopular opinion, but as it applies to movies: I make my own decisions and live or die by them. If I don't work with enough women, then that's on me and I either have a reason (all of my movies were set on civil war battlefields) or I don't (my movies are all set in office buildings, but I'm a big fat chauvinist), but either way, there's no reason for you to share the blame of that, even if we do fall into the same demographic.

So if you think a movie maker isn't representing women, address that. But pointing to an entire block and lumping them by percentage is not exactly the best path towards ending stereotypes. It's actually the opposite.

 

[Jeyl]

Feige is the only one doing it right because storytelling is the only thing that matters.

The issue with this kind of argument is that you can use it to shield just about any problematic issue. If a studio exec said that their multi-film franchise was only going to be about caucasian white guys even though they re-assured movie-goers that they care about storytelling, how is that not different than saying that there are no stories about women or People of Color worth telling? And it's not like Feige thinks storytelling if the only thing that matters either.

Joss Whedon Says Edgar Wright’s ‘Ant-Man’ Script Was The Best Marvel Ever Had

Well, at least Marvel has a line up of diverse heroes coming soon and we know that Kevin cares very much for them... until you know who showed up.

Marvel films pushed back after Spider-Man announcement

But maybe we're jumping the gun here a little. After all, there have been other characters who aren't Peter Parker taking on the Spiderman Mantle. Maybe after two attempts at doing Peter Parker, Marvel/Sony will do something different?

"The idea was always that we want to see the Marvel cinematic universe version of Peter Parker"​

Because the only thing that matters is storytelling!

 

[Egon Spengler]

Story telling about Peter Parker because he is and always has been the most popular version of Spider-man and even though Sony made movies about him people are hoping to see it done "right" in the Marvel Universe.

 

[dascoyne]

The issue with this kind of argument is that you can use it to shield just about any problematic issue. If a studio exec said that their multi-film franchise was only going to be about caucasian white guys even though they re-assured movie-goers that they care about storytelling, how is that not different than saying that there are no stories about women or People of Color worth telling? And it's not like Feige thinks storytelling if the only thing that matters either.

and being outspoken about women's rights online is a convenient way of masking deep seated misogyny. What's your point?

Joss Whedon Says Edgar Wright’s ‘Ant-Man’ Script Was The Best Marvel Ever Had

In case you don't know it was developed over 8 years where there was no MCU. It's understood that Wright's vision wasn't consistent with the MCU as it evolved and they fell into irreconcilable differences. Why is this confusing?

Well, at least Marvel has a line up of diverse heroes coming soon and we know that Kevin cares very much for them... until you know who showed up.

Marvel films pushed back after Spider-Man announcement

But maybe we're jumping the gun here a little. After all, there have been other characters who aren't Peter Parker taking on the Spiderman Mantle. Maybe after two attempts at doing Peter Parker, Marvel/Sony will do something different?

"The idea was always that we want to see the Marvel cinematic universe version of Peter Parker"​

Because the only thing that matters is storytelling!

Troll me once shame on you.
Troll me twice shame on me.

 

[Jeyl]

Story telling about Peter Parker because he is and always has been the most popular version of Spider-man and even though Sony made movies about him people are hoping to see it done "right" in the Marvel Universe.

What was 'wrong' about the other incarnations? Having Parker do some pretty stupid stuff across all depictions and entertainment mediums is kind of the norm for him. His emo dance in Spidey 3? How about having him making a deal with the Satan of the Marvel Universe? And if you think that's wrong, know that this is what Stan Lee had to say about it.

"Wow! Talk about courage! Just imagine what cojónes it must have taken for Joey the Q and his Marvel madmen to separate Spidey and MJ after years of married bliss. I know this new, startling development will anger some readers - might even make'em think that Marvel has lost it's collective mind. But me - I think the bullpen deserves a medal."​

Yep. Stan Lee approved of Peter Parker selling Mary Jane out to the Antichrist. That is not a 'Peter Parker done right' I want to see.

 

[Jeyl]

and being outspoken about women's rights online is a convenient way of masking deep seated misogyny.

Hmm. You may have a point.

“There have been strong, powerful, intelligent women in the comics for decades. And if you go back to look at our movies – whether it’s Natalie Portman in the Thor films, Gwyneth Paltrow in Iron Man or Scarlett Johansson in The Avengers – our films have been full of smart, intelligent, powerful women."
- Kevin Feige​

 

[Egon Spengler]

You're reading way too much into what I said. There were good things about the Sony films but now that Marvel has Spider-man people want to see him done right in the Marvel Universe. Done right meaning connected to the characters currently already in it and not just in some solitary confinement of the Sony Films. That's great Stan likes it, but he's a human and it was something I'll never accept Spider-man or Mary Jane as doing. It's crap writing that ignores the characters core and his beliefs. That isn't the point I'm making here though. That's not related to what I'm talking about. When I say done right I mean people want to see Peter Parker, the actual original Spider-man interacting with the heroes inthe Marvel Cinematic Universe because that version of Spider-man has never had that opportunity.

 

[Jeyl]

An article on women and their struggles in film animation.

Inside The Persistent Boys Club Of Animation

 

[dascoyne]

 

[Krull]

I just don't get the idea people have about shoving a subject down people's throats like Jeyl does,here's the thing I just think it's so stupid if you're bugged about something go fix it-no need to bash the rest of us over the head with your moral club,get women to make strong female leads,go carve out a place for it.

The whole Ghostbusters movie is such a pile of crap it isn't funny they are LITERALLY pushing it being all female like it matters...oh sorry it does if you fixate on that subject like people tend to do nowadays,same with Star Wars when Jeyl starts his screaming about there only being two women who feature in it and they should be getting the special princess treatment and being the lead and rescuing the men all I can think is you may as well just toss Luke,Han,Chewie,and all the rest out and just make a women only SW and then he STILL will find something to nag about,that's the thing about those people they don't care about fixing anything all that matters is they have something to fight about so they feel important and worthy or some nonsense.

In the end I just don't care,I go to watch a movie not get a social education,I watch to be entertained not get the correct programming that the high minded think I need,I don't give a flip about women,gays,blacks or whatever the flavor of the day offended minority is I want to watch a certain bunch of characters and the HELL with it being correct or not to someone's delicate sensibilities-you don't like it? then don't watch it cupcake.

Really some people need to learn to shut up,the world no matter what you believe doesn't revolve around you,you don't and shouldn't try to change it drastically just fix the rough patches,like another poster said if people like Jeyl had their way we'd be in 1984 and all dressed the same and all told what to think so we're "perfect" but in fact we'd just be the ultimate slaves no more freedom,no more creativity everything in a box and by the book.

My two cents on the subject and that's all I'm gonna say.