Female representation in hollywood

[Riceball]

Well, she could have been handled better. I mean, if you want us to take her knowledge and skill in linguistics seriously, have it actually accomplish something. You speak Romulan? Well the Romulans speak english. You want to diffuse a conflict with the Klingons by speaking to them in their language? Well that's not going to work because we want to sell your character as the 'action girl with a gun' rather than as a diplomat.

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums...5-23b4-413c-bb0b-c0572e9f5200_zpsbpkasri9.jpg

Oh, you remember this bit from Damon Lindelof regarding that one moment that gave Uhura THE BIGGEST SPOTLIGHT EVER?

"there were earlier story iterations where the Klingon Fleet was simultaneously heading for Earth to get retribution, only to be turned around via diplomatic intervention by Uhura. We dropped it pretty early on, as it didn’t feel intimate, cool, or earned.”
- Damon Lindelof via blastr.com​

Didn't feel intimate, cool or earned... Picture if you will the severely damaged Enterprise limping in Earth's orbit only to have a whole armada of Klingon ships slowly approaching. In one big wide shot, you have Earth, the Klingon armada and the crippled Enterprise in the middle. Unlike their last encounter with the Klingons, shooting them isn't going to work. Spock isn't onboard, Kirk is dead and what remains of the crew are pretty much scrambling to keep the ship together. And who's going to step up and do something about this potentially catastrophic situation? Uhura. Just the dynamics between what was at stake during her first attempt at diplomacy vs what's at stake now could have been the most intense scenes in the movie. She failed to talk down a Klingon patrol, but she HAS to succeed at talking down the entire Klingon armada. And it worked. Despite the odds and clear intent of the Klingons, she manages to succeed in dealing with the Klingons without resorting to violence.

But instead of doing something like that, they resorted to the 'action girl with a gun' schtick again. It's like they have the right ideas on what to do with Uhura, but they keep changing into something more 'action' oriented that is no where near as satisfying than doing something unexpected like facing down a whole armada.

Then again, it probably wouldn't have translated well into a movie, they are trying to sell these new Trek movies (right or wrong) as action films and a long, dialogue heavy negotiation scene would just end up slowing the film down and taking away from the action. Besides, even if they did include that scene I bet that most of it would have wound up on the editing room floor anyway because of pacing issues.

 

[Bryancd]

Well when a sweet young girl comes up to you Jeyl and tells you how much she loves Uhura you can trot out this convoluted argument to demonstrate why her adoration is misplaced.

 

[dascoyne]

The one problem I have with all this is it feels less like you're trying to fix the problem and more like you want to bend me over and pound your ideas up my butt,you see the world as a giant square hole and you just HAVE to get that round peg in there because...well...feels,and unicorns,and the children and the children's children.

I was taught to go fix things and be quiet about it,you people seem to think you not only need to be vocal you need a friggin' marching band following along behind you.

Some folks would rather write folk songs than vote.

 

[Jeyl]

Well when a sweet young girl comes up to you Jeyl and tells you how much she loves Uhura you can trot out this convoluted argument to demonstrate why her adoration is misplaced.

Bryancd, leave my own personal life out of this discussion.

 

[Jeyl]

Then again, it probably wouldn't have translated well into a movie, they are trying to sell these new Trek movies (right or wrong) as action films and a long, dialogue heavy negotiation scene would just end up slowing the film down and taking away from the action. Besides, even if they did include that scene I bet that most of it would have wound up on the editing room floor anyway because of pacing issues.

I'd rather have pacing issues than tone issues. You want me to feel sad and sympathetic towards Kirk's death? Ok, but why are you immediately following it up with a literal "KHAAAAN!" shout out, 9/11 imagery, an overly long fist fight scene and end it all with Kirk recovering from death? Even if Uhura talking down the fleet didn't work, at least tried to do something risky instead taking the obvious safe route. Even action movies can be allowed to take risks.

 

[Bryancd]

bryancd, leave my own personal life out of this discussion.

i...don't...know...you.

 

[dascoyne]

Bryancd, leave my own personal life out of this discussion.

Uhhh ... that didn't seem at all like a personal remark.

 

[Bryancd]

Uhhh ... that didn't seem at all like a personal remark.

I 'think" he's joking. Otherwise he is crazy.

 

[Jeyl]

I 'think" he's joking. Otherwise he is crazy.

Let's just say I'm lucky to actually know a few ladies, and yes. Some of also like NuUhura. And no, I do not lecture them on how their they're misled by having such an opinion.

 

[dascoyne]

Is there a word for someone who takes overt personal offense to a remark made by someone who couldn't possibly have sufficient personal familiarity to have known that such a remark would be taken offensively?

 

[Jeyl]

Is there a word for someone who takes overt personal offense to a remark made by someone who couldn't possibly have sufficient personal familiarity to have known that such a remark would be taken offensively?

Funny, it's usually the people who don't have familiarity on a topic that often make the most offensive statements when it comes to said topic. It's like saying if you don't know what it's like being a woman, why should women get offended if you do a really poor job depicting them in your works? So if you're going to make a post to offend me, there's going to be a chance that I'll be offended by it.

 

[dascoyne]

Funny, it's usually the people who don't have familiarity on a topic that often make the most offensive statements when it comes to said topic. It's like saying if you don't know what it's like being a woman, why should women get offended if you do a really poor job depicting them in your works? So if you're going to make a post to offend me, there's going to be a chance that I'll be offended by it.

It's pointless to try and redirect the issue, but you expressed offense that bryancd was commenting on your "personal life.". I don't think anybody but you interpreted his comment that way.

 

[Jeyl]

I don't think anybody but you interpreted his comment that way.

Well here's one thing you can be 100% certain of. The people I have relationships with outside of this forum and how I act around them ARE my personal life. If you admit that you don't know anything about me, than I say keep your ideas on how I should act towards them to yourself.

 

[dascoyne]

Well here's one thing you can be 100% certain of. The people I have relationships with outside of this forum and how I act around them ARE my personal life. If you admit that you don't know anything about me, than I say keep your ideas on how I should act towards them to yourself.

Well, he was talking about "a girl", not someone with whom you might have an existing relationship.
It still doesn't seem to be even a remotely personal remark.

 

[Jeyl]

It still doesn't seem to be even a remotely personal remark.

You know what, I just realized I've been doing the wrong thing. If there's anyone I should be talking to about what offends me personally, it's not going to be with someone who publicly liked the post containing the phrase "it's honestly amazing you haven't gone suicide yet- if I was that way I'd have found a cliff and hopped off long ago." aimed not just at me, but at jlee562 and kialna. We are done.

 

[dascoyne]

You know what, I just realized I've been doing the wrong thing. If there's anyone I should be talking to about what offends me personally, it's not going to be with someone who publicly liked the post containing the phrase "it's honestly amazing you haven't gone suicide yet- if I was that way I'd have found a cliff and hopped off long ago." aimed not just at me, but at jlee562 and kialna. We are done.

So you're just going to blatantly change the subject again. Fine.

Yes, the "suicide" comment was entirely inappropriate.

I was responding only to this bit from the beginning of that post:

The one problem I have with all this is it feels less like you're trying to fix the problem and more like you want to bend me over and pound your ideas up my butt,you see the world as a giant square hole and you just HAVE to get that round peg in there because...well...feels,and unicorns,and the children and the children's children.

I was taught to go fix things and be quiet about it,you people seem to think you not only need to be vocal you need a friggin' marching band following along be

If you look further down at my post you'll see that it's the only part I quoted.

But I agree that the comment was in poor taste. I withdraw my "like" because it's not clear I was only referring to that bit.


please find something more substantial to hold against me.




... and bryancd's comment is still not a personal remark.

 

[Krull]

The "suicide" comment was entirely inappropriate.

I was responding only to this bit from the beginning of the comment:If you look further down you'll see that it's the only part I quoted in a later post.

But I agree that the comment was in poor taste. I withdraw my "like" because it's not clear I was only referring to that bit.

please find something more substantial to hold against me.




... and bryancd's comment is still not a personal remark.

The only reason I made the suicide comment is people who get THAT obsessive usually resort to drastic measures to get their attention when people start to ignore them "not listening? well then I'LL KILL MYSELF" et cetera.

Not really inappropriate just noting how obsessive folk act out :ninja sorry if it went too far but I make observations and don't hold back.

Anyway just wanted to clear that up,I'll scoot back out now.

 

[jlee562]

ANYWAYS.......

USC's Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism released a timely annual study today:
http://annenberg.usc.edu/pages/~/me...700 Popular Films 8215 Final for Posting.ashx

 

[Solo4114]

This stuff is interesting, but in the end, I think it comes down to women as a market for Hollywood. The study notes women are notably absent (A) in certain genres (e.g., action, adventure, etc.), and (B) especially past age 45. The obvious answer to "Why is that?" is that Hollywood is targeting men ages 18-35 primarily, and figuring they'll catch everyone else in that net somehow. To the extent they focus on other demographics, the films usually are fairly obviously targeted. You see a lot of adapted YA novels with female protagonists, you see a lot of romcoms, and...uh....traditionally, that's been about it. We're juuuuust starting to see some bleeding into straight-ahead comedy (minus the "romance" aspect) and action/adventure, but the studios are only doing this slowly.

All of this, by the way, is entirely separate from the issue of women over 45. While I think you tend to see men over 45 even in "genre" roles (e.g. Sly Stallone keeps doing The Expendables films), that's more about the target demographic for those films, and there not really being an equivalent market for women (or at least, that's the perception for the studios).

Ultimately, that's what it's all about: the studios' perception of the market. They'll make whatever they think will sell. In 1989, that was apparently "Movies about underwater monsters" and "buddy cop films" and such. Right now it's "Comic book films." But really, they'll make whatever movie they think audiences want to see. They're just notoriously myopic and slow on the uptake.

 

[Jeyl]

We're juuuuust starting to see some bleeding into straight-ahead comedy (minus the "romance" aspect) and action/adventure, but the studios are only doing this slowly.

It's slow, but something just happened very recently that might speed things up. It seems that Marvel Studios went though a complete overhaul and got rid of a certain problematic individual.