eFX ANH DARTH HELMET SAMPLE!!

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Can you take a shot matching it up to the angle of the mold? I am under the impression that Thomas tinkered a bit with the offerings he sold of the SL, but I could well be wrong.

I'm basically interested to see if the "scar" shows up on a pic where the angle matches.

 

[wannab]

The EFX Legend Vader is a fantastic helmet. I'd be happy to have one as should the current owners. Never has there been, or will likely ever be again, a better offering from a licensed vendor that comes so close to the original. The minutia that gets debated only matters to a handful of folks anyway, so enjoy the EFX people.


Doug

 

[wannab]

Can you take a shot matching it up to the angle of the mold? I am under the impression that Thomas tinkered a bit with the offerings he sold of the SL, but I could well be wrong.

I'm basically interested to see if the "scar" shows up on a pic where the angle matches.

Do you know how it was lit, as that would be critical?


Doug

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

You can approximate. Let's not banter over semantics. Hell, Thomas has shown a gaggle of photos of that area on the SL. It shouldn't be hard to fake it, or come close.

Really, at some point this is all just "coppin' deuces".

 

[CSMacLaren]

Not on mine (SL that is).

Doug

In an older thread from around around 2011 on The Prop Den, I shared photos of the TM's C-scar and how it became visible or non-visible based on certain lighting angles, and the photo comparison was done in conjunction with the screen used in the same lighting angles. If anyone cares to read, all information and sharp images were posted a long while back.

When I say "older" I mean it was a thread that took place before ths current conversation, so please keep in mind the time context as that Den thread has nothing to do with this current eFX thread.

 

[CSMacLaren]

Really, at some point this is all just "coppin' deuces".

At the end of the day, we should just have a shut in, sand all helmets ultra smooth, and see that under all the divots they're really just the same Darth Vader.

 

[SithLord]

Firstly, early images of the SL ANH had the right front face of the cheek and the widow’s peak (among other things) blurred out. Why? So SPFX and JB couldn’t use that information to make their claimed “cast from original” castings more authentic.
Secondly, the image of the mold shown by eFX has flat lighting, has the region in question out of focus compared to the tab region in the other photo shown, and I can see the base of the C-scar just where it should be. The C-scar as Wannab mentioned is not a huge chip in the paint, it is a shallow scratch, but it is there.
Here is a comparison showing that on the mold the C-scar is still present. All I had to do was increase the sharpness of the image and I invite anyone to do the same comparison and do the overlay as well. You will see that they match. Maybe if we could see a sharper image of that area with oblique lighting it would be more apparent. But it is there.The details at the base of the scar toward the lower edge of the cheek match and are indisputable. But certainly it could have been missed by an untrained eye.

And finally, Darth Jones confirmed that when his own helmet was pulled from the Rick Baker mold, it too had the C-scar. So, two separate pulls from the Rick Baker mold taken years apart, by different ILM artists, and BOTH have the C-scar. Then, almost 20 years later, eFX takes a pull from the mold and reports that there is no C-scar?

So it is there, it was there. And certainly a detail like that would be easy to miss.

 

[SithLord]

Can you take a shot matching it up to the angle of the mold? I am under the impression that Thomas tinkered a bit with the offerings he sold of the SL, but I could well be wrong.

I'm basically interested to see if the "scar" shows up on a pic where the angle matches.

Qui, I showed images of the front cheek of the original SL ANH, not a copy. So what is your point? So now you are accusing me of fabricating the scar?

 

[phez]

If it was a paint scratch it is probably under the thick paint on the EFX helmet. Am I correct in assuming that the people who have the fan pulls would have likely painted there helmets being careful not to bury or damage any of these details. It looks like EFX may have thicker paint on it to achieve the smooth gunmetal effect that could easily cover up a detail as soft as a paint scratch. If they used any kind of filling primer those details would be buried.

There are a couple of other spots where it looks like the the original ding is there but is softened by the finish. I am not sure I have seen an older mold lose a whole lot of surface detail, don't they usually just start cracking and falling apart? I don't know the history of this debate (and I am definitely not trying to stick my nose into a Vader civil war :lol) but just looking at the photos everyone posted a lot of it looks to be boggers and scratches in the finish of the screen caps.

Most of the wonky asymmetry of the helmet seems to be present on all of the photos (fan made and EFX). It would be interesting to see what a Legend looks like without the paint job.

 

[SithLord]

The Baker mold was likely taken (made) after paint touchups were made after arriving in US. Baker may have even messed with it somehow? We know this scar was not in the original sculpt (as per Brian) so we have to suss it from timeline of shooting aspect.

If there really was anything done to that front cheek surface from the time of the Tantive IV shoot to the time Rick took the mold, then we wouldn't see details around the scar matching the Tantive screencaps, but they are there. You can't modify something just at the scar and leave traces of all the other details, even microscopic ones, including paint details.

 

[wannab]

If it was a paint scratch it is probably under the thick paint on the EFX helmet. Am I correct in assuming that the people who have the fan pulls would have likely painted there helmets being careful not to bury or damage any of these details. It looks like EFX may have thicker paint on it to achieve the smooth gunmetal effect that could easily cover up a detail as soft as a paint scratch. If they used any kind of filling primer those details would be buried.

There are a couple of other spots where it looks like the the original ding is there but is softened by the finish. I am not sure I have seen an older mold lose a whole lot of surface detail, don't they usually just start cracking and falling apart? I don't know the history of this debate (and I am definitely not trying to stick my nose into a Vader civil war :lol) but just looking at the photos everyone posted a lot of it looks to be boggers and scratches in the finish of the screen caps.

Most of the wonky asymmetry of the helmet seems to be present on all of the photos (fan made and EFX). It would be interesting to see what a Legend looks like without the paint job.

That is why I haven't painted my SL or TM ANH's, I don't want to possibly bury the details. I'll get over it eventually and paint them. :eek


Doug

 

[SithLord]

I firmly believe that the Baker mold came after the time when Kermit Eller was playing Vader for promo shots and Don Post studios was in possession of the film used suite. They needed more Vader's when Kermit was over booked. And even more in 1996 when the re-release came out. So, just what mold did the efx come from, or the Twentieth Century Fox piece for that matter?

The fact that this fantastic helmet came from LFL molds is undeniable. But just when was the mold produced should be the question.

Well, from what was related to me by the ILM artist I got my pull from, the Rick Baker mold was thought to have been made during pickups of ANH and that would be before any touring. We know that at the time Don Post studios had the original suit, it was untouched. Given the details found in pulls from the Baker mold that match the onscreen helmet, it just isn't possible that it was taken off the original prior to any refinishing work. I've shown paint detail on the SL ANH that matches what is seen onscreen in that cheek area. Any refinishing would have obliterated details that minute.

 

[wannab]

If there really was anything done to that front cheek surface from the time of the Tantive IV shoot to the time Rick took the mold, then we wouldn't see details around the scar matching the Tantive screencaps, but they are there. You can't modify something just at the scar and leave traces of all the other details, even microscopic ones, including paint details.

But you can add a paint layer or glop some thick mold release that would lessen the appearance of the artifact in certain areas. That is what I'm trying to get across.


Doug

 

[SithLord]

You can approximate. Let's not banter over semantics. Hell, Thomas has shown a gaggle of photos of that area on the SL. It shouldn't be hard to fake it, or come close.

Again, you are accusing me of faking details?

 

[SithLord]

If it was a paint scratch it is probably under the thick paint on the EFX helmet. Am I correct in assuming that the people who have the fan pulls would have likely painted there helmets being careful not to bury or damage any of these details.

I actually don't think the paint on the eFX is that thick. But certainly if stripped down we should be able to see more detail. Don't get me wrong, there is still some detail in areas, some reasonably good detail between the tusk tubes, for example, at least from what I've seen in photos shown so far. But the closeup photos shown of the front cheek face almost look as if there was sanding done in that area because there are transverse and criss-crossing lines that are not seen on the original. I mean, if you take a step back and look at this issue, it really is kind of silly because we all know there was a bit of cleanup and it wasn't like the whole thing was smoothed out like a DP deluxe, there is still like 90-95% of what there should be. But issue was made about the C-scar because of a misinterpretation of what it really was. And if care was taken in examination of the mold, then we wouldn't even have been arguing about it.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Read what I said, Thomas. "I could be wrong". Did you miss that? Did you offer unaltered castings of your SL? That is why I phrased it so open endedly. I was under the impression that you had not offered unaltered castings of the SL. Again, I could be way off base, which is why I asked you here.

As to the photo, nope, not saying you faked the photos, I am saying that wannab can come up with an approximation by winging, or faking it. (In regards to lighting conditions.)

 

[defstartrooper]

........

 

[Keith]

I'll say this, im not a fan of your comparison photos most of the time Thomas, but your casting looks SPOT ON in those pics!
Makes me want to get one and do my best on replicating the original.

Keith.

 

[Albatrossone]

Great comparison. I can see traces of the whole scar in the mold.

Is it me or has Rick sharpened up the cheek corner a little. It looks a little worn in the original and on the SL it looks like material has been added?

 

[yakcam]

Probably so, since I know some of what has gone on behind the scenes on the one side and some of the lengths that have been gone to in order to try to damage products like this. I think if every one was privy to some of those details, bannings and lynching would be demanded.

Is there anywhere I can go to find out more about this? I’ve heard a rumour that it may have or was intended to jeopardised the EFX Vader run, is that correct? If so, I’d like to apply for official lynch mob membership, the last thing we need is an A-hole like that on the forums and in the hobby and I sure as hell don’t want to deal with them in the future.

On a lighter note, my Vader isn’t too far away, I can’t wait! I’m really looking forward to owning a Vader with lineage to the bad ass we saw for the first time on the big screen. Time to upgrade the rest of my suit to complement the helmet...


Thanks to everyone for the pics that have been shared.

Cheers,

Kraig