eFX ANH DARTH HELMET SAMPLE!!

[vader71]

Big surprise. The same crowd who helped create one of the longest threads in RPF history, doing everything they could to poop on the eFX helmet in an effort to shore up their own helmets still are disappointed, even after eFX bent over backwards telling people what to expect, what changes were made, and the reasons for it. Yawn. SSDD... Same Sith. different day. Play on broken records.

The Owner of this board does not want to have an open and honest discussion about a prop replica. SAD.

:facepalm

 

[Art Andrews]

The Owner of this board does not want to have an open and honest discussion about a prop replica. SAD.

:facepalm

Nice spin! :lol

Open and honest discussion is absolutely fine. Beating the same old very tired drum right into the ground on issues that have been repeatedly addressed? Well, what else did we expect from the same old faces?

 

[cking]

Art,

With all due respect, these are the first pics that we've seen of an actual production helmet which is ending up in the hands of the customers. I've given my open and honest thoughts about what I'm seeing now.

Everything which has been said in the past was based on "approved factory samples". I'm stating my thoughts about this in-hand production helmet. In all honestly, what we should be seeing here is something which looks like one of the other, hard to find fan castings which originated out of the same mold.

This helmet looks WAY more cleaned up than any of those other fan castings. I don't understand why that had to happen so I'm venting my frustration. It spits in the face of the "Legend" idea in my honest opinion.

Chris

Nice spin! :lol

Open and honest discussion is absolutely fine. Beating the same old very tired drum right into the ground on issues that have been repeatedly addressed? Well, what else did we expect from the same old faces?

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

That is one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever read, V71. We were ALL told details would be lost on the Legend and it would not be as sanitized as the Limited. Being that we don't have a side by side of both production runs to compare, it is a bit early to start crying "Foul". Face it, this is still the best many are going to get. Period. While it may be missing some of the dinks and dents the Baker Mold has, it is still far superior to most anything else out there. It's definitely better than a great many of the fan sculpts PLUS it is available.

ANH is not my thing. I'm waiting for an ESB version myself, but if I were an ANH Vader fan, I would be pleased to have this in my collection.

 

[Art Andrews]

Art - I take offence at this. I'm not trying to drum up sales for one of my helmets and I'm not trying to promote anyone else's helmets. My comments were purely an observation and disappointment based on the production helmet pics posted by Vader71.
I honestly can't see the point of a "Legend" edition if it's cleaned up so much from the original mold. Just stick to the "Limited" version and be done with it. I'd be pretty upset if I'd paid extra for the Legend only to find it looking the same (apart from the paintjob) as the Limited.

Sure - it's probably THE best LICENSED Vader helmet we'll ever see but that doesn't take away the disappointment that it COULD have been supplied to us as originally advertised - namely, straight out of the Rick Baker mold. I'll bet that GINO would rather display his unaltered casting instead of the sanitized version we're seeing here.

Chris

But that is just the thing, and it was addressed to death in multiple threads leading up to this... you are disappointed in what you believe "could have been" but you were told from the get-go that cleanup had to be done for production and at the end of the day every person here as well as every single buyer KNEW these were going to be mass produced by factory workers in China and as many years as most of us have been around, we KNOW what that means... it means the equivalent of a Wal-Mart greeter pumped these helmets out in a factory setting, just like every other mass produced product. You knew it was going to be dumbed down. You were told it was going to be dumbed down (and explained why more than I have ever seen a licensee explain). You begrudgingly admit it is the best licensed Vader helmet that has been (and is probably ever likely to be) made available to the masses... yet, you are still disappointed that a factory worker in China making $5 a day couldn't produce the same thing as someone at the Prop Den who has dedicated every minute of their life to the study and defense of their belief in the C-scar... really?

 

[cking]

Yes, that just about sums it up.

I don't understand why it took so long to get a factory paintjob approved when in actual fact, it doesn't look like GINO's paint master.

Same story with the X-Wing helmet. StevetheSwede did a phenomenal job on the paint masters but for some reason, the accurately sized decals he'd meticulously recreated were scaled down in size (so they're too small) and all of the attention to detail on the placement of the weathering was pretty much ignored on the production helmets.

I had high hopes that eFX would knock this out of the park but in reality, I should have known that those expectations were unrealistic.


Chris

 

[Art Andrews]

This helmet looks WAY more cleaned up than any of those other fan castings. I don't understand why that had to happen so I'm venting my frustration. It spits in the face of the "Legend" idea in my honest opinion.

There are at least two insanely long threads from a year ago where this was addressed over and over again.

You know me, Chris. You know my passion and desire for perfection in my replicas. I understand that many of us have that pursuit for accuracy to the smallest degree, but the issue here is that I think expectations were managed more than they EVER have been, yet a very small group, many of who ARE the same old faces are already beating the smear campaign drums as if the final production piece is a surprise. If you have followed this from day one, I don't know how anyone could be surprised by the result.

The conversation seems to go like this.

eFX: "We are going to be producing a helmet that was cast from the Rick Baker mold."

self-proclaimed Vader experts: "Here are a thousand blurry photos of why we know your helmet was not cast from Rick Baker mold."

eFX: "Here are pictures of the mold."

frustrated Vader "experts": "Yeah? Well... well... what about all the detailing? Will it be there?"

eFX: "For mass production purposes, some of them are going to have to go and some cleanup will have to be done. We are going to try to leave what we can, but cleanup is inevitable and some of the finer details will be lost."

.. a year passes. The production pieces start to ship.

overjoyed Vader experts: "OMG! Look at that production helmet! There was cleanup! Some of the finer detail was lost! WE WERE LIED TO AND DECEIVED! THIS IS A BAIT AND SWITCH! HOW DARE EFX DO EXACTLY WHAT THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO DO A HUNDRED TIMES! I wanted a 100% raw casting right out of the Baker mold and even though we were told repeatedly that is not what this would be and that there would be some cleanup, I am going to poop on this helmet because it makes me superior to all the pleebs!"

Being disappointed in the best licensed Vader helmet that has ever been produced because it isn't the same as an unmodified casting, when you were told again and again that it was going to have to be cleaned up for production seems like sour grapes, especially from those who have fought this project from day one.

If you want to be disappointed that the mass production process requires such things... fine. It is completely understandable. I know I hate it and I absolutely hate to see an artist proof and then see the final product (we just had a thread on this very subject in the OT), but that is the process and we all know how it goes when it comes to these type of high volume products. Just not sure why you are disappointed that a Xerox machine didn't create a hand painted Rembrandt.

 

[Art Andrews]

Yes, that just about sums it up.

I don't understand why it took so long to get a factory paintjob approved when in actual fact, it doesn't look like GINO's paint master.

Same story with the X-Wing helmet. StevetheSwede did a phenomenal job on the paint masters but for some reason, the accurately sized decals he'd meticulously recreated were scaled down in size (so they're too small) and all of the attention to detail on the placement of the weathering was pretty much ignored on the production helmets.

I had high hopes that eFX would knock this out of the park but in reality, I should have known that those expectations were unrealistic.


Chris

Having talked to multiple licensees, this issue is always one thing... Chinese mass production.

It is the bane of a licensees existence, yet due to costs, they have little choice, if they want to be successful as a business, but to use China for these type of pieces.

Let me share a story with you that was recently related to me (not by eFX). A licensee was touring the Chinese factory that was building their product which included some very small detailed weathering that should have been applied with an airbrush to get the finesse needed to achieve the look of the paint master. However, the entire factory is setup on one airsupply line with an insane PSI that is used to power the type of paint guns used to paint cars... and they are using paint guns used to paint cars... with these tiny pieces... place a template over them and then BLAST the piece with this massive paint gun, making a mess of what should be a very delicate mark. The licensee, sat and tried to explain it to them and the manager for the workers said "Yes, yes!" but they just continued right on, blasting away with completely the wrong tools for the job.

:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm

This is the kind of thing every person who is working with Chinese factories is having to deal with. It is a miracle that they get anything produced at all.

My point isn't to make excuses for eFX or anyone else, but to help you understand that this is the virtually insurmountable obstacle that almost every licensed piece is going to face, which means that it is almost inevitable that products will have to be dumbed down to make consistent production possible.

With all of that said, I think what eFX has managed to pull off is incredible and would be the center piece of anyone's collection. It will NEVER be the same as a handpainted piece by an artist with an intense passion for Vader, but then, it was never going to be.

 

[cking]

I don't think I joined in on all of these threads that you're talking about Art.

I don't have sour grapes - I'm just stating my disappointment because I KNOW that licensed companies can produce incredible things. I have the MR Falcon and it is stunning. Surely something like that is far more complex than the Vader helmet but the chinese factory workers still managed to do an amazing job at matching the paint master.

I guess it all depends on which factory is used.

Similarly, I love what MR did with the Fett helmet paintjob. Considering the complexity of the layering on that paintjob, it was stunning what they did with it. (But again, there was frustration because the tapering visor issue wasn't picked up and fixed before it went to production).

I'm not here to ruin it for those people who are excited about receiving ths helmet so i apologise if that's how my posts are coming across.

I've said my piece and won't be picking this helmet up for the reasons that have been discussed to death already.

I hope that the people who did pick it up will enjoy it for what it is though.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[Jedi-72]

I think the point of frustration is that this piece could have been delivered, as has been said, straight from the mold with no clean-up. The clean up ruins the entire purpose behind the whole idea of a "Legend" product. The argument about the masses not wanting it all wonky is bollocks. That's what the Limited was supposed to be for. The Legend was for the die-hard purists. Cleaning it up just seems pointless and stupid, whatever the reason.

The paint disappoints me far less than the clean-up. When I saw Gino's paint master, I knew there was no way in hell that the production models were going to turn out like that. That's like expecting the hamburger that you get at Wendy's to look like it does in the ads. I can always have someone repaint it. That's a much easier fix. But the rest leaves me feeling like I wasted $200 extra dollars on the "Legend" version. And, after this long a wait, that's not too cool.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

That's just it though...Bryan and Gino both stated that there was no way the factory could reproduce the thing exactly as it was from the mold. There should not have been expectations to the contrary. The way these factories seem to do things leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[NAZGÛL]

Im extremely impresed with the stuff eFX are doing, but they do state that no cleaning up was done. From the site: "Our master pattern was cast from vintage molds in the Lucasfilm archives which are believed to have been made by none other than Rick Baker from the screen used Vader helmet back in 1977. What makes this a very special product is that the master pattern is NOT made from a digital scan, it is an actual, original casting. This means that this replica helmet will have direct lineage to the original and be as true to the actual filming prop as you can possibly get!

This helmet has the asymmetric geometry that many feel capture the true evil essence of Darth Vader. The face mask will have the screen accurate brushed on two-toned black and gunmetal paint scheme. The dents and scratches that were in the original mold have NOT been filled in or removed, thus remaining faithful to the original filming prop."

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Im extremely impresed with the stuff eFX are doing, but they do state that no cleaning up was done. From the site: "Our master pattern was cast from vintage molds in the Lucasfilm archives which are believed to have been made by none other than Rick Baker from the screen used Vader helmet back in 1977. What makes this a very special product is that the master pattern is NOT made from a digital scan, it is an actual, original casting. This means that this replica helmet will have direct lineage to the original and be as true to the actual filming prop as you can possibly get!

This helmet has the asymmetric geometry that many feel capture the true evil essence of Darth Vader. The face mask will have the screen accurate brushed on two-toned black and gunmetal paint scheme. The dents and scratches that were in the original mold have NOT been filled in or removed, thus remaining faithful to the original filming prop."

Was this before or after they found the manufacturer could not replicate it as is?

The above quote could also mean the master was not cleaned up and I think we have seen the master here, or am I mistaken?

 

[NAZGÛL]

Was this before or after they found the manufacturer could not replicate it as is?

The above quote could also mean the master was not cleaned up and I think we have seen the master here, or am I mistaken?

Just pasted it from the site.

 

[Tom1971]

Im extremely impresed with the stuff eFX are doing, but they do state that no cleaning up was done. From the site: "Our master pattern was cast from vintage molds in the Lucasfilm archives which are believed to have been made by none other than Rick Baker from the screen used Vader helmet back in 1977. What makes this a very special product is that the master pattern is NOT made from a digital scan, it is an actual, original casting. This means that this replica helmet will have direct lineage to the original and be as true to the actual filming prop as you can possibly get!

This helmet has the asymmetric geometry that many feel capture the true evil essence of Darth Vader. The face mask will have the screen accurate brushed on two-toned black and gunmetal paint scheme. The dents and scratches that were in the original mold have NOT been filled in or removed, thus remaining faithful to the original filming prop."

Doesn't this lend credit to the argument that they should not state how something is going to be made until they are sure it can be done, like the Legend Stormy.

I understand all the reasons it had to be done this way. Anyone who has tried to get something built understands.

With EFX the two legitimate complaints heard over and over again are lack of information and stating intentions as done deals.

Their stuff is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Update the site and make it better.

State only what you know you can do, not what you are hoping to do as a done deal.

Take care of those two things and this is an awesome company.

 

[Tom1971]

If EFX took care of those two things anyone left with any complaints will never be happy.

 

[Clutch]

You guys should count yourselves lucky you have any insight to this company at all. At least they have been somewhat communicative.

 

[wannab]

It seems as though EFX will be the "close but not quite there" company for folks like me. I got very excited about this Vader when I first heard of it, but quickly realized that mass produced in China has its limits and as things went on in various threads from EFX, it proved right. I do thank them for making these comments in the threads (if not on their site) as it was the key to me knowing I would not have been happy getting one.

I was more excited about the Hero Trooper lid, but again the sounds of troubled waters appears. Not the final word yet of course so I still have faint hope for this offering. I hope they make the same comments/updates if there are "factory limitations" so I can again avoid disappointment.

EFX, don't get our hopes up first and then dash them later, just lay it all out for us die-hards in the first place, we can take it, and then we can make the right choice from there without remorse. There are plenty who will be ecstatic to have "very close" (obviously), that is who you are hitting (if not aiming at), as it seems it is impossible to hit the top target in a massed produced way. Never stop trying to hit that top mark EFX, you might get it and that day I will be waving the flag high! thumbsup




Doug

 

[vaderdarth]

supposedly the castings for the limited and legend came from separate moulds, according to eFx. Meaning the yucky bits stayed on the legend helmets and not on the limited, but from what I've seen so far, it's all from one mould with two paint jobs. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't believe that eFx ever implied that either helmet would be "uncleaned" as that was established when we talked about the brow divot. So let's at least get those facts straight. What I want to know is are the legend and limited the same base casting or not? Only eFx can answer that. CKing and V-71 are right, when you call something a legend edition, it needs to mimic something right out of the moulds. Not just be a paint op difference.

Dave

ps for information, contact gino, he's supposed to be the information guru on eFx questions from the RPF.

 

[micdavis]

This is the kind of thing every person who is working with Chinese factories is having to deal with. It is a miracle that they get anything produced at all.

Then, it's time to stop using the Chinese factories.

Yeah, yeah, too expensive. Too bad.

And if anyone believes any real discourse is allowed on the RPF anymore, they are dreaming.