EDIT - ICONS Tie Production Castings.....

Re: ICONS Tie Masters.....

So at least the wing might be a recast of a recast of a recast...

Well, the cockpit ball and arms, plus the wing are recasts of recasts of recasts...most likely originating in a production-made pyro mold.

Has someone got some measurements for the wings so I can check the shrinkage on this thing?

Don't have an original TIE to measure, but do have a production ICONS model and am pretty sure I still owe someone else wing measurements for that. Let me see what I can get done in the shop tonight.
 
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Re: ICONS Tie Masters.....

Ok just measured up & got some different figures.
I got:
Wing - 44.6cm Height x 36.9cm Width
So 2-3mm shorter top to bottom but 7mm wider than your ICON wing.
Ball & Arms is pretty much dead on 13" from the centre of the wing mounts which would line up in the centre of the wings.
I guess at the least I can make myself a reasonabley good Tie if its cast from Pyro casting or moulds.
The thing is that 'propsculptor' said these were completely scratch built & he saw them building them.
That is contradictory to the Pyro story I have always believed of the ICONS models.
He also said these parts also look straight off the shelf?
Thats a statement by an ex-employee who handled this stuff.
Now I don't doubt the words of a single person that has contributed to this thread but theres clearly been a couple of contradictory statements made regarding the lineage of the ICONs models.
So if theyre not directly related to an actual studio model, casting or mould theyre just some more fan made replicas?
 
Re: ICONS Tie Masters.....

I was told that the Icons TIE fighter 1st generation masters castings were acquired by Icons via a trade to an ILM miniature maker, for a set of 1st generation X-Wing master castings, from a Boss Films miniature maker. Peter Greenwood should be the Icons staff who secured the TIE Fighter castings.
To verify !!!
 
Re: ICONS Tie Masters.....

If i know one thing it's TIE fighters...

Sorry guys... not the icons master patterns. Yet again Taits recasting skill at work. The cut up hull is the production one he bought on ebay and the grey one is the copy made from it... I know where the masters patterns are and they are not with Tait. Sorry Jase.

As far as Chris Kelly.. had nothing to do with Icons... his interceptor wings are 100% fanmade... no accurate kit parts.

Steve


looking at the grey hull... not 1630 needs to be much darker... you can actually see where he filled in "MAX" on the casting. (tell located on the inside of the front cockpit. Tait is such a turd!

Steve you are so full of it and you know it!! your just wanting to eliminate competition of someone else selling tie kits because someone else may get them to their customers faster than you ever could or ever will! as confirmed by a poster in this thread that ACTUALLY worked at ICONS confirmed those are production patterns and you come along and try to say they are recasts, which proves you do NOT know everything about tie fighters, and some other facts you do not know are I traded a terminator kit for those production masters from a guy here on the rpf who worked for ICONS and he confirmed that's where they came from and this is what I told Jase when he wanted them so to say "Tait burned you" is like putting your foot in your mouth as you do not know everything that you think you do.
and while your claiming I recasted those parts why dont you tell everyone here that your tie kits were recasted from an icons tie fighter????? even Ralphee knows this as he mentioned this in a post and no one caught on to it. dont try to deny it Steve, your version 1 tie kit was a direct copy off the icons tie!!, now this is the only post i will make as my health is failing day by day which is why i have retired from modeling and will spend more time with my family from here on out but I wanted to post to this B.S. nonsense from people who know nothing about me or where I got my items from, I'm just so glad that I've been out of this hobby for nearly a year (last October) and just happen to see this thread and had to post a response to it.

I am soooooooooo happy not to be in this hobby anymore!! steve, go ahead and cast your kits but don't worry about me stepping on your turf as I'm not in this hobby or any hobby for that matter but don't try to spread B.S. to another person who might be stepping on your turf like Jasse here, you were quick to respond and shoot it down without knowing the facts, just proves your not a good business man and can't take it when someone else wants to sell SW kits which is why you have to acquire all the masters regarding SW to eliminate competition and many people do not see that but I do and I called you out on it.

and mods, ban me i dont really care as i wont log onto or even comes to this site ever again.
I'd rather spend valuable time with my family.

I also want to clear up and if memory serves Jasse paid 600.00 for these tie patterns mentioned in this thread, but he also bought the kelly wings (he was told they were kelly wings), 1/24 tie defender patterns which I made and 1/24 tie bomber patterns which I made as well which all these were sold separately over a year and half ago.

I still have the email from the person I made the trade with on these icons patterns stating where they came from.
 
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Re: ICONS Tie Masters.....

I was told that the Icons TIE fighter 1st generation masters castings were acquired by Icons via a trade to an ILM miniature maker, for a set of 1st generation X-Wing master castings, from a Boss Films miniature maker. Peter Greenwood should be the Icons staff who secured the TIE Fighter castings.

This maps very well to the commonly-told origin of the ICONS X-Wing pattern, as described by Frank in some detail right here.

A quick IMDB lookup for John Eaves shows that he worked at Richard Edlund's Boss Films, in addition to Grant McCune's shop.
 
Re: ICONS Tie Masters.....

Great information about the history of the Icons TIE. I always liked mine, but didn't notice detail differences. I always liked how clean and non-warped it was. Might need to upgrade now.

(Not about your post Baz, but the one before it...hmmmm, sockpuppet?)
 
Re: ICONS Tie Masters.....

Oh GOODY, someone post up that POPCORN Emoticon !

:lol

Steve you are so full of crap and you know it!! your just wanting to eliminate competition of someone else selling tie kits because someone else may get them to their customers faster than you ever could or ever will! as confirmed by a poster in this thread that ACTUALLY worked at ICONS confirmed those are production patterns and you come along and try to say they are recasts, which proves you do NOT know everything about tie fighters, and some other facts you do not know are I traded a terminator kit for those production masters from a guy here on the rpf who worked for ICONS and he confirmed that's where they came from and this is what I told Jase when he wanted them so to say "Tait burned you" is like putting your foot in your mouth as you do not know everything that your big head thinks you do.
and while your claiming I recasted those parts why dont you tell everyone here that your tie kits were recasted from an icons tie fighter????? even Ralphee knows this as he mentioned this in a post and no one caught on to it. dont try to deny it Steve, your version 1 tie kit was a direct copy off the icons tie!!, now this is the only post i will make as my health is failing day by day which is why i have retired from modeling and will spend time with my family from here on out but I wanted to post to this B.S. nonsense from people who know nothing about me or where I got my items from, I'm just so glad that I've been out of this hobby for nearly a year (last October) and just happen to see this thread and had to post a response to it.

I am soooooooooo happy not to be in this hobby anymore!! steve, go ahead and cast your overpriced trinkets but don't worry about me stepping on your turf as I'm not in this hobby or any hobby for that matter but don't try to spread B.S. to another person who might be stepping on your turf like Jasse here, you were quick to respond and shoot it down without knowing the facts, just proves your not a good business man and can't take it when someone else wants to sell SW kits which is why you have to acquire all the masters regarding SW to eliminate competition and many people do not see that but I do and I called you out on it.

and mods, ban me i dont really care as i wont log onto or even comes to this site ever again.
I'd rather spend valuable time with my family.
 
Re: ICONS Tie Masters.....

TomJ (AKA sock puppet of who knows)

One post. Really. And you started with this. Someone sounds a bit densive. Well my man say what you will I know where the ICONS patterns are and those arent it.. end of story as far as that goes.

Ver one TIE fighter (13 years ago) indeed started with an icons hull. Completely stripped of ALL detail. Modified to be more accurate. Your point? I never copied an icons TIE fighter and sold it as my own as others have done.

Now If someone told you these were magic beans when you first got them...perfect... if you were told they were patterns... not my prolem... because I know the guys who made the TIE's for Master replicas and the parts shown in the pictures WERE NOT USED in the production of the icons TIE Figther. Masters, patterns otherwise. Period.

As far a competion goes... Those castings are is such bad shape and innaccurate... there is no competion. Trust me I'm not worried. Funny thing is Ive talked with Jase to upgrade his pieces for free. Man that shows im really worried about competion.

I will not go back and forth here with you so if you want to man up call me. We can talk man to man... My phone number is posted everywhere.. please call I'd love to enlighten those who travel in the darkness of mis information.

So put your popcorn away folks....sorry to dissapoint I will not waste another min arguing here. Believe what you want. I have no dog in this fight. This guy may actually believe he got what he got so bashing him is really not neccessary.

Mods Ive responded and will back all of my comments to you with facts if neccessary.

Jase man go with what you know bro.. if those are production master patterns.. the patterns all icons TIE are made from.... why are they is such bad shape.. hell there is still flashing on the wings..

I'm done with this thread.
 
Re: ICONS Tie Masters.....

Thanks. Im not the only one & you'd be surprised at who & how many people this guy has stung. Im a straight up person that doesn't want to do the wrong thing so I ask questions now I know what the rules are. The thing was I was new & just signed up to the wrong site first up cause I was new to forums. It won't happen again.

email sent Steve.

Ah, we both got burned at relatively the same time.. I didn't get it as bad..but man! That guy can spin just about anything into "It's your fault and he's the poor victim"...
 
Re: ICONS Tie Masters.....

Steve you are so full of it and you know it!! your just wanting to eliminate competition of someone else selling tie kits because someone else may get them to their customers faster than you ever could or ever will!

Oh, you mean like the Smuggler's choice aka the Falcon?


ban me i dont really care as i wont log onto or even comes to this site ever again.

Why did you come here today in the first place?
 
Re: ICONS Tie Masters.....

All I can say is I won't be 'recasting' anything except one wing for myself. Steve has kindly offered to help me fix what I got to be accurate. Thanks Steve.
 
Re: ICONS Tie Masters.....

As the contradictory statements posted here, I have no idea who "Pyro" is, and there were no castings that we copied at Icons for the Tie Fighter prototype.

If it's really that important to collectors ask Scott Brodeen or Mike Moore (Mike is a member here), I know that the reference material was scarce and at the time & Icons Fabrication and Design group did the best they could with the information they were provided by Lucasfilm at the time. I know in the case of some of the props that were replicated again later by Master Replicas they were provided with much more reference than we ever had access to...

And Peter Greenwood didn't get involved with Icons until much later, he Never supplied us with castings from a Lucasfilm Tie Fighter, If he had the Tie Fighter model would have been much more accurate.

I have no reason to lie about this (Honestly I don't Care about the Tie Fighter that much), I even owned an Icons Tie Fighter years ago but sold it a while back, I know one of the Studio Scale Kits out there is much more accurate than the Icons Tie Fighter, all you have to do is look at Photos of the Icons Tie Fighter, then compare them to the Photos in the "Sculpting a Galaxy" book...

I was told that the Icons TIE fighter 1st generation masters castings were acquired by Icons via a trade to an ILM miniature maker, for a set of 1st generation X-Wing master castings, from a Boss Films miniature maker. Peter Greenwood should be the Icons staff who secured the TIE Fighter castings.
To verify !!!
 
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Re: ICONS Tie Masters.....

As the the contradictory statements posted here, I have no idea who "Pyro" is, and there were no castings that we copied at Icons for the Tie Fighter prototype.

"Pyro" is just shorthand for "pyrotechnic" around these parts, meaning a miniature that was created to be destroyed on camera, often by blowing it to smithereens. I'm pretty sure it originated from the heads of the people who actually build miniatures for the film industry.

I have no reason to lie about this (Honestly I don't Care about the Tie Fighter that much), I even owned an Icons Tie Fighter years ago but sold it a while back, I know one of the Studio Scale Kits out there is much more accurate than the Icons Tie Fighter, all you have to do is look at Photos of the Icons Tie Fighter, then compare them to the Photos in the "Sculpting a Galaxy" book...

Well, let's be careful, because I don't see anyone accusing anyone of lying. I'm most certainly not. It's just that, like a very small number of people here, I really do care about the TIE-Fighter, probably too much depending on your point of view, and have been researching it, like a monk in a monastery, with hundreds of books and magazines and thousands of images and dozens of castings, for many years. I purchased and have kept my copy of the ICONS TIE-Fighter not because I'm a collector and I wanted to display it, but because I'm a builder, and I needed it for my research. I also have an ICONS X-Wing which I purchased and then promptly broke down into about twenty different pieces. My shop and attic are also bursting at the seams with the thousands of vintage model kits from the 50's, 60's and 70's that I've purchased while looking for the original greeblies attached to every square inch of this and other Star Wars models.

Last year, I spent the better part of three months researching the original hero TIE-Fighter models and identified most of the kit parts found on the wingstars, ball, arms, hatches and cockpits. If you've watched Julien's build here:

http://www.therpf.com/f10/building-ss-tie-cockpit-ball-76802/

you can see a small portion of the total effort we put into researching the original models and identifying the original kit parts used to construct them back in 1976. Collectively, we've invested way more time and energy into this research than ICONS ever could have afforded to do, probably by an order of magnitude. Steve N. and a few of his close friends who are also mostly members here, have put in even more time and energy over the past 10+ years researching this model.

See this cockpit panel:

TIE76.jpg


? Our obsession with the TIE-Fighter is what allowed Julien to make such an accurate pattern. The same with the cockpit ball, arms and hatches that he made:

TIE72.jpg


I say all of this this only because it's important that you understand where I'm coming from when I point out that there's absolutely no question in my mind that the "bones" of the ICONS TIE-Fighter, meaning the cockpit ball and arms - minus the cockpit interior, hatches and canopy - most certainly descended from a production-made casting or mold of an original TIE-Fighter, most likely of a pyrotechnic, or "pyro" version of that miniature. The wing, minus the wing mounting point cover, also most certainly descended from the same production source material.

Now, there's also no question in my mind that guys like Mike and Max and Al at ICONS put in a lot of time and effort scratch-building all new patterns for the top, bottom and rear hatches, as well as the mounting point cover for the wing. And they no doubt spent an enormous amount of time figuring out how to build master patterns and molds suitable for mass production. Were I in their shoes then, I wouldn't know where to begin.

Still, there is absolutely no question in my mind that those guys had a head start on the TIE-Fighter project because someone with access to original production ILM material was nice enough to loan them either mold(s) or, more likely, a set of castings.

This is exactly how ICONS did the X-Wing project, by the way, with loaner parts from someone who had access to original production material, and I actually have spoken with Mike Moore at length on the phone about that project. You might want to ask Mike, or Al or Max about the source for the core of the TIE-Fighter that you saw them working on back then.
 
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Re: ICONS Tie Masters.....

Yes, Al Zequeira oversaw the molding of the TIE, including the wing micro-screens which were considered impossible to mold and re-cast in production....
Icons Fab & Design helped clean them up and work with Al on the assembly methodology. Under the supervision of Al and Mike Moore.
I heard that Lucasfilm has one set of Icons TIE masters that were given to them at the closure of the company, one Icons co-founder had one set (Mike Rogers) and one set was destroyed !!!
 
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