Donald Glover for Spider-Man

I think it would be different if we where reading these stories all of out life in the form of a series of novels. I think my biggest tie up is I've been LOOKING at images of Peter Parker all my life on the comic book page so I kind of have a picture of what Peter should look like. I would feel the same way if they decided in the movie version that once Peter got bit by a radioactive spider he turned purple. Nothing disgusts me more then people assuming that if a white person talks about black people they must be racists... that's just unfair... and if that's the truth and it's what makes a racist then I guess I hate everyone. I don't want to see Blade or Spawn played by a white guy. Heck I'm upset they are casting Johnny Depp as Tanto in the Lone Ranger.


-Ash
 
You mess with the visuals and you're messing with the characters. It's just a pure statement of fact. End of story.

The "fact" presupposes that every specific aspect of the visualization in any given depiction is indicative of character. This is a charming ideal, as every aspect of visualization offers the opportunity for the presentation of character, but is never so often exploited.

The varying aspects of the visual depictions (that themselves varied) contain an arguable about of information about the character. Thus this debate. Does a printing error resulting in an inkspot on Peter's face indicate that Peter's character must have a mole? Or even a mole intended. To what degree is that an intrinsic representation of the character?

As with all characters, he's a combination of the textual and visual components through which they have been told and retold. Different viewers/readers latch onto different aspects, with equally valid interpretive weight.
 
So a black guy can't play Spiderman? Wow. Unreal. :thumbsdown Heaven forbid they cast a black guy that can act and do a great job in the role. HEAVEN FORBID!

Racism aside, No he can't, Spiderman is a white guy.. Period.

With your analogy you are saying that Superman can be cast as a black guy, or Batman, Robin... ETC. it is not going to fly over well.

Lynn
 
It's no better than making Spidey's suit purple and green. It's just the aesthetic that we're used to and want to see.
 
I think it would be different if we where reading these stories all of out life in the form of a series of novels. I think my biggest tie up is I've been LOOKING at images of Peter Parker all my life on the comic book page so I kind of have a picture of what Peter should look like. I would feel the same way if they decided in the movie version that once Peter got bit by a radioactive spider he turned purple.


It's no better than making Spidey's suit purple and green. It's just the aesthetic that we're used to and want to see.



The "fact" presupposes that every specific aspect of the visualization in any given depiction is indicative of character. This is a charming ideal, as every aspect of visualization offers the opportunity for the presentation of character, but is never so often exploited.

The varying aspects of the visual depictions (that themselves varied) contain an arguable about of information about the character. Thus this debate. Does a printing error resulting in an inkspot on Peter's face indicate that Peter's character must have a mole? Or even a mole intended. To what degree is that an intrinsic representation of the character?

As with all characters, he's a combination of the textual and visual components through which they have been told and retold. Different viewers/readers latch onto different aspects, with equally valid interpretive weight.

Nicky,

Read the two quotes above yours.

There is no debate. There are certain set characteristics about Peter Parker. Period. End of story. You're treating this character as if he is some ephemeral, undefinable essence. He isn't. There are aspects about Peter Parker and Spiderman that may vary somewhat, but there are also certain core characteristics.

Look, if you want me to get all philosophical on you, I'll say that there is a Platonic essence to Peter Parker and Spiderman and a huge portion of that are the consistent VISUAL elements of the characters. He has brown hair. At least in his youth, he wears glasses. He's white. He generally has short hair (that mullet period in the mid-80s to early-90s notwithstanding...I think pretty much all characters ended up with those at some point during that time...). His suit is red and blue with black "webbing" across it, and with big white otherwise featureless eyes on the suit. Yes, it's debateable as to whether the suit needs to have the webbing underneath his arms (the sort of "flying squirrel" webbing wings). But there are certain generally consistent elements to the visual that represents the character.

Comic book characters are not abstract characters from a novel that leave much to the imagination. They are visually represented which pretty much means EVERYONE sees them in a particular way. Unless you're visually impaired, you can't look at Peter Parker and see a blond. You won't see him as asian, black, hispanic, or whatever. He's white. That's that. Don't believe me? Open a comic book and look for yourself. Unless it's an "alternate universe" (like the black Nick Fury in Marvel's Ultimates line), or there's some in-universe explanation for it (like the Psylocke thing I mentioned), generally speaking the race of a character is one of those consistent elements.

Same with the costume. When characters get new costumes, it usually is explained in one way or another. Maybe the old one was destroyed. Maybe they just decide to go with a new look and have a "How do you like the new me?" panel. But it's not just...there...with no explanation or discussion. Sometimes it absolutely IS to make them more "contemporary" or "accessible." Superman's mullet comes to mind. But even that ends up explained in-universe.

And while you can argue that different viewers and readers find different elements of the characters to be the defining characteristics (IE: is it Peter's nerdiness and social awkwardness that most defines him? Is it his wise-cracking as Spiderman? Is it his sense of honor and duty?) pretty much the brown haired white guy elements aren't up for debate. They're constants. If and when writers and artists decide to change them, they have a significant task ahead of them explaining why they're messing with the established formula. It's not as simple as just "Oh, we cast a different actor." Even in-universe explanations can end up rejected or at least ridiculed by fans. (See also, Superboy-Prime's "retcon pawnch!" to re-create the DC multiverse and basically undo one of the biggest moments in DC comics history.)

The argument about the ink-blot is facetious and I'm calling bull**** on that. Or at least arguing for the sake of arguing. An error in coloring on the lower left-hand panel of page 15 of one issue from 1973 doesn't suddenly establish itself as "canon." A mini-series event culminating with him getting a new costume made of an alien symbiote, ok, THAT is an intentional change and, for at least one generation of comics fans, is an acceptable alternate version of Spiderman. But there are still consistent elements across ALL interpretations of the character, and those elements -- especially the visual ones (like, you know, the fact that he's white) aren't open for negotiation.


So, sorry, but when it comes to the fundamental aspects of a character -- visuals included -- all this attempt to make the debate somehow legitimate just comes across to me as either wrong or just so much disingenuous post-modernist philosophical wanking.
 
The argument about the ink-blot is facetious and I'm calling bull**** on that. Or at least arguing for the sake of arguing. An error in coloring on the lower left-hand panel of page 15 of one issue from 1973 doesn't suddenly establish itself as "canon." A mini-series event culminating with him getting a new costume made of an alien symbiote, ok, THAT is an intentional change and, for at least one generation of comics fans, is an acceptable alternate version of Spiderman. But there are still consistent elements across ALL interpretations of the character, and those elements -- especially the visual ones (like, you know, the fact that he's white) aren't open for negotiation.

Hehe, what about the first issue of the hulk?

You are arguing that it's comic cannon, but are forgetting that the people that make up the majority of box office returns, parents and their kids, will likely not care about that. They're there to see spiderman, a geeky kid, put on that costume, and fight evil. If a Glover pops up on screen, they would make note of it sure, but I'm willing to bet that they'd move past it in an instant and then just enjoy the movie. (while you and some other fanboys are at home yelling "but he's white in all the comics!!!)
 
Solo, I think my beef is that I don't care about any illusion of 'canon' that writers have tried -- in vein -- to hold up all these years. Each story is a story that has to stand on it's own legs, and if to do that you decide to have Spiderman played by a black actor, it really doesn't make any difference to me. Any change to canon needs no more justification than it's effective implementation in the drama. I don't need a thinly veiled attempt at canonizing by integration into the plot. That's all gravy.

But none of this matters because the movie will probably suck. Hard.

Also, I'm not arguing that this wouldn't anger people. Of COURSE it would. Look around this place. A swively phaser and people boycott the movie. I'm just ruminatin' on what I think people ought or oughtn't do with adaptation.
 
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(while you and some other fanboys are at home yelling "but he's white in all the comics!!!)

Since you seem to support the change, give me at least one good reason for it. One good reason for Peter Parker to be black. Sorry, but those are comic absolutes. Hell, let's let the Black Panther be white then. Or Luke Cage...why not, right?
 
Smart way to go... Comic books are typically the domain of men and boys. How do you put girls in the seats too (for money making purposes of course)? You get someone they can drool over. Someone attractive. I just don't think this guy has that look. Also, he's 27. He sure isn't going to look like a high school kid 2 sequels down the road.

So from a business stand point, it just makes no sense. I also don't think they're going to take that kind of risk with such a big money maker as Spiderman.

So I just don't think it's going to happen.
 
Since you seem to support the change, give me at least one good reason for it. One good reason for Peter Parker to be black. Sorry, but those are comic absolutes. Hell, let's let the Black Panther be white then. Or Luke Cage...why not, right?
The black panther is the chief of the Panther Tribe of the African nation of Wakanda. So it's implicit in his backstory that he's African. Also Luke Cage was the first Black charecter to have his own dedicated comic in a sea of white heros, so the fact that he was black was a milestone in itself (this in a time soon after the civil rights movement). Though I don't see anything in particular that in a synopis of his storyline would prevent someone of a different race from playing the Luke cage charector and it changing the plot, but I'm not familiar enough with him.

As for why I wouldn't care if a person of a different race played spiderman let's let Stan 'the man' Lee answer that one himself:

"Any reader, of any race, in any part of the world, can imagine himself under that costume — and fantasize that he himself is Spider-Man. I'm not sure we planned it that way, but it's just one of those fortunate coincidences that has made our arachnid-inspired adventurer arguably the most empathetic superhero ever to wiggle a web."
 
as long as Spike Lee, the Wayan brothers or jessie Jackson isn't involved ..lol Come down here to Montgomery to watch it opening night too
 
It's the 'urban market' man. They (Hollywood) figures a black man can become president, so why not Spider-Man? I'm not certain that many fans or movie goers will buy into this new turn easily - there has to be some heat built up for this actor to get more affection from fans, but honestly, recasting the character in a different ethnicity may end up confusing people and end up making the movie flop....or the complete opposite. Who knows.
News about a new Spidey seems to be getting worse and worse. I won't be surprised if it gets pushed back even further now that there is even MORE debate over it.
I will wait and see what happens, but not expecting much that will make me happy at all.
 
Nick Furry was white in the comics, then they made comics where he was black and looked like Samuel L Jackson. It was an 'alternate universe' line of comics.
 
Yeah...


It's Nick Fury.

Fury. With one "R".


Sorry- I'm usually not the spelling police... but I was ready to come out of my skin here. :lol


Kevin
 
It's the 'urban market' man. They (Hollywood) figures a black man can become president, so why not Spider-Man?
What the **** are you even talking about?
This is about Donald Glover starting an online campaign for an audition. That's it! He, a big spider-man fan, wants an audition.
And you know what, if he can do better than just some other skinny young kid at the audition, then I am 100% for him playing the part.
 
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What the **** are you even talking about?
This is about Donald Glover starting an online campaign for an audition. That's it! He, a big spider-man fan, wants an audition.

People don't even read the threads; they just react.
 
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