Does the T-800 Endoskeleton really fit into Arnold's body?

[JarodRussell]

Hi everyone!

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this question.

I'm trying to make a CG version of the Terminator (Endoskeleton as well as Arnold). I'm using photographs of the Sideshow 1:1 Endoskeleton, Endoarm and Endoskull and photographs of Arnold as reference. And I'm wondering... does it really fit into Arnold's body?

It looks like the neck is way too short, the shoulders are too wide. The "colarbones" (the pistons connecting the chest piece with the shoulders) aren't parallel and would totally stick out of the muscles.

Thorax and pelvis look about right. The legs are too short, too, but that's maybe just the perspective.

Maybe I just haven't pinned down the proper dimensions yet. Can someone who owns the Endoskeleton or the Endoskull give me some exact measurements? For example, Sideshow says the Endoskull bust is 33 x 20 x 20 cm large, but that doesn't fit to the photographs I have.


Thanks in advance! Any info would help a lot!
Jarod

 

[Treadwell]

I remember something about the knuckles and the knees not fitting, and the knuckles, at least, being improved for T2.

 

[Weequay]

At a guess? Probably not.

There would have been very little point in the expense of full body casting arnold, and then attempting to make the endo fit into his dimensions.

The two are never seen on screen at the same time, and whilst arnold was a large man, he wasnt as 'big' as people make him in thier head.

By the time they had taken into account muscle tissue etc the endo would have been 'normal' size at best, and not as impressive as it was supposed to look.

What height have you scaled arnold at? His height around the net varies wildly, but he was no more than 6'2". he would have been around 225lbs at filming time (slightly smaller than the pic you have which is from his comp days mid 70's).
weequay

 

[JarodRussell]

I remember something about the knuckles and the knees not fitting, and the knuckles, at least, being improved for T2.

The T2 arm and knuckles seem to fit into Arnold's arm perfectly (since they did that prop for the scene where he removes the entire flesh on his arm to reveal the endoskeleton).

At a guess? Probably not.

There would have been very little point in the expense of full body casting arnold, and then attempting to make the endo fit into his dimensions.

The two are never seen on screen at the same time, and whilst arnold was a large man, he wasnt as 'big' as people make him in thier head.

By the time they had taken into account muscle tissue etc the endo would have been 'normal' size at best, and not as impressive as it was supposed to look.

What height have you scaled arnold at? His height around the net varies wildly, but he was no more than 6'2". he would have been around 225lbs at filming time (slightly smaller than the pic you have which is from his comp days mid 70's).
weequay

Most sources I found said he's 183 cm (6ft) tall.


How tall is the lifesize Sideshow Endo?

 

[TheRealMcFly]

In a book, I think the Stan Winston Effect, they mention that the endoskull was a sculpted down from an arnold lifecast... though probably the only part of it that would really match up. I'd imagine the rest they would not have bothered. IIRC the T1 endo had different arms, and hands. The Sideshow is based on the T2 versions.

 

[JarodRussell]

Didn't they build a full scale Arnold/Endoskeleton puppet for the climax of Terminator 3?

 

[Weequay]

The T2 arm and knuckles seem to fit into Arnold's arm perfectly (since they did that prop for the scene where he removes the entire flesh on his arm to reveal the endoskeleton).




Most sources I found said he's 183 cm (6ft) tall.


How tall is the lifesize Sideshow Endo?

Quite likely he was. As I say, he isnt/wasnt as big as people believe.

The endo would have been very 'unimpressive' if they had actually tried to make it fit in his frame.

EDIT: ive found some dimesions for you. The undo is apparently 77" tall x 68" wide x 53" deep. these dimensions exclude the skull base.

So that puts the endo at 6'5" tall without any skull hair. We can all agree that Arnold was nowhere near that height.

Again, the endo was designed to look imposing and impressive.


Weequay

 

[phase pistol]

Then there's that "other Terminator" that infiltrates the human base in Reese's flashback in the first movie... the endo probably fits into that guy. :cool

 

[Toni Plutonij]

Then there's that "other Terminator" that infiltrates the human base in Reese's flashback in the first movie... the endo probably fits into that guy. :cool

That guy is called Franco Columbu. He is a close friend of Arnolds. You'll be disappointed to find out he's way smaller (shorter) then Arnold.
Here, take a look at few pictures:

Arnold on left, Franco Columbu on right.

Arnold on the left. Sylvester in the middle, Franco on the right.

Franco is in the middle.


Ontopic, from what I've seen on documentaries and read in interviews, Stan Winston aimed to make Endo within Arnolds proportions. Endoskull and Endoarm are perfect fit, I'm just not sure about the rest of the Endo..Will try to find some reference.

However, that SideShow Endoskelleton picture isn't the best one to try and fit in the Arnold. It's legs aren't even straight, they are bended in walking position, and perspective of the picture is wrong!

 

[Weequay]

That was Fanco in the first movie????!!!!!!!!

I never knew that!

Franco had a tremendous physique. Whos the girl??

Weequay

 

[Trap Joe]

Cool tread. From the first time I saw that T movies, I heavily doubted exactly THIS.
I will watch this thread with great interest:

 

[Toni Plutonij]

That was Fanco in the first movie????!!!!!!!!

I never knew that!

Franco had a tremendous physique. Whos the girl??

Weequay

Yeah, the Terminator that got into shelter and started killing everybody is Franco. I agree, he had incredible physique, here is another picture:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qWfhpO6ox.../XksEHZG8c2o/s1600-h/ArnoldandSlyStallone.jpg

Where size difference between Arnold and Columbu can be seen, unfortunately, I have no idea who's the girl with them.


Here is the picture I made that still isn't perfect, but is a bit better comparison of the Arnold vs. Endoskelleton.
Note that this Endoskelleton has a bit too long neck (skull wasn't fitted properly) neck pistons are connected wrong, and his left leg appears to be too short because it's bent.
If you take these corrections in consideration, it seems like overall proportions, if not perfect, are at least very close!

 

[Weequay]

Great pic mate.

But, if the height of 77" (6'5") for the sideshow is correct then it cant possicbly fit as arnold was not that tall

Weequay

 

[Weequay]

EDIT, according to sideshow, the base is 6", which makes the endo 5'11" tall.

SO that seems about right height wise once you add the skull muscle etc...

Weequay

 

[Toni Plutonij]

Great pic mate.

But, if the height of 77" (6'5") for the sideshow is correct then it cant possicbly fit as arnold was not that tall

Weequay

Thanks

The thing with the SS Endo is, it's not accurate.
But nevermind that, the whole debate here is kinda going the wrong way.

In the first movie, for the scenes that required full Endokeleton in the shot, they mostly used stop motion, and 1/4 scale Endoskeleton! Any other scene where 1:1 Endo was used, they used actually parts of it.
Either it was a top half of the body, or just legs etc.

What I'm aiming at is, they probably made parts like chest, arms, skull etc. within proportions, and when they were putting it together, they could connect the parts in a way that they fit inside Arnold, or make it a bit bigger to look more intimidating.
If you put the whole Endoskelleton together, you can still manipulate the height via spine section, make it taller without loosing the shape and look of it.
It's hard to express what I actually mean, as English isn't my language, so I do my best.
I could try to explain a bit better if you'd like.

But let's say that I'm 100% positive that at least Skull and arm are within proportions as I know that skull was sculpted down from Arnolds lifecast, and for arm, I know it's within proportions as I have a picture of the Endoarm placed in the mold of Arnolds arm!


EDIT: and with your correction, even SideShow Endoskelleton appears to be "within" the size..however, I wouldn't use it as a definitive reference, as it has bent legs (so it's not at full height) and it's third (or more) generation cast from Screen Used one, so it might be undersized. Also, it's been simplified in some areas.

 

[CessnaDriver]

Maybe some metal expanded after the gas truck fire.

Maybe the endo changed shape and size a bit on it's own with some
early T-1000 tech, since
it no longer had the human muscles to help or provide balance so it
had to adjust to being a skeleton to get around.


You could play games like that. I do frequently. It's my little magical world all my own to make things work. LOL

 

[Toni Plutonij]

Maybe some metal expanded after the gas truck fire.

Maybe the endo changed shape and size a bit on it's own with some
early T-1000 tech, since
it no longer had the human muscles to help or provide balance so it
had to adjust to being a skeleton to get around.


You could play games like that. I do frequently. It's my little magical world all my own to make things work. LOL

Real constructive addition to discussion! :ninja

 

[n0regret5]

Yeah, the Terminator that got into shelter and started killing everybody is Franco. I agree, he had incredible physique, here is another picture:
ArnoldandSlyStallone.jpg (image)

Where size difference between Arnold and Columbu can be seen, unfortunately, I have no idea who's the girl with them.


Here is the picture I made that still isn't perfect, but is a bit better comparison of the Arnold vs. Endoskelleton.
Note that this Endoskelleton has a bit too long neck (skull wasn't fitted properly) neck pistons are connected wrong, and his left leg appears to be too short because it's bent.
If you take these corrections in consideration, it seems like overall proportions, if not perfect, are at least very close!

not bad, but you can see there that the endo skull in itself is far bigger than arnolds flesh and skin covered head. thats probably the closest though, so good effort.

as i understood, the endo was made to look huge and massive and scary. arnold was the second (or third?) actor to be cast as the terminator (O J Simpson deemed to 'nice' to come across as a killer..lol) so the design would've been done before he even came into it. so the first one would be WAY off. the second one, parts of it were redesigned to fit (forearm, skull, shoulders) and the third one there was the fullsize puppet. but the third one was a terrible movie so we'll leave that one out

 

[Toni Plutonij]

not bad, but you can see there that the endo skull in itself is far bigger than arnolds flesh and skin covered head. thats probably the closest though, so good effort.

as i understood, the endo was made to look huge and massive and scary. arnold was the second (or third?) actor to be cast as the terminator (O J Simpson deemed to 'nice' to come across as a killer..lol) so the design would've been done before he even came into it. so the first one would be WAY off. the second one, parts of it were redesigned to fit (forearm, skull, shoulders) and the third one there was the fullsize puppet. but the third one was a terrible movie so we'll leave that one out

Yeah, I know it's not perfect....it's impossible to get the perfect comparison because of the conditions that pictures were taken..perspective etc.

Endoskeleton was made after they hired Arnold for the role. It is pretty much completely Camerons design, however Stan Winston and his crew were the ones who refined design and made it "work".
In second movie (and third), only details were changed. Most notable difference is in the hands. Rest of it was pretty much the same, only made in lighter materials, as Endo from the first movie was very very heavy.

 

[Weequay]

Noregret. You are right about the skull.

If you scaled it down to fit withing arnolds head, then the rest would be very undersized even if you taje into account the bent legs.

Weequay