Disney + | She-Hulk

[JPH]

Ignoring that he never did such a thing as far as I can tell, nor did she assert such a thing.
Where did she say she could save the "universe" better than Bruce?

So you didnt see the Hulk snap half the universe back into existence in Endgame?

If you haven't even watched Marvel movies, why are you even trying to debate continuity?

Sadly, this confirms what I have been saying, folks who never knew the source material are acting like this woke nonsense is true to it.

He saved half the universe, but she doesn't have t
time for his insight cuz she has to get back to lawyering and paying off loans.

 

[CB2001]

The comic panel presented in this video is how Jennifer should have been presented. The way she treats Bruce in the panel is exactly the kind of reaction she should be having, acknowledging his problems, his mental, psychical and psychological traumas that he's still struggling with. Being the Hulk is trauma after trauma for Bruce. If she had reacted like this, maybe she'd actually come off as being an actual human being that happens to be related to Bruce. Too late now, I guess.

 

[Picard102]

So you didnt see the Hulk snap half the universe back into existence in Endgame?

The universe was very much intact before he snapped his fingers.
Restoring half the population isn't saving a universe.

Sadly, this confirms what I have been saying, folks who never knew the source material are acting like this woke nonsense is true to it.

It confirms nothing.

He saved half the universe, but she doesn't have time for his insight cuz she has to get back to lawyering and paying off loans.

He's not giving her insight on saving the universe.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

I do have to say, in defense of the perspective of The She-Hulk, I share the dismissive attitude that she relayed to Bruce. I’m serious when I say this, and I’ll tell you why.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he put the gauntlet on, nearly died, and snapped everyone back….yeah, he did all these amazing things—but—what has Bruce personally done to stop the blight of obnoxious co-workers across the countryside?

Case closed.

I can only assume that by the time The She-Hulk series has wrapped, she will have put a stop to irritating co-workers everywhere. I expect that in the next episode, The She-Hulk will smash a random person who interrupts a co-worker in a Zoom call followed by throwing the most colossal of office super villains: “the loud typer”, “the at the desk teeth flosser”, “the after lunch gas-passer”, “the inappropriate joke teller”, and “the at the desk fingernail clipper ” out of a fifth story window, one-by-one, with righteous gamma-infused fury.

Beware the colossal power of The She-Hulk, Dwight…

Beware…

After defeating both “the kingpin of office gossip” and “the mansplainer”, in the season finale, she will walk down the highway, briefcase in-hand, and disappear into the distance as sad music plays on a piano…

Excelsior!!

 

[Paul Andrew]

It is maybe the most male-privilegiest thing in the world for your point to be that a woman dealing with a massive life change ought to be putting the feelings of a man who already seems to have conquered his inner demons first in her reactions.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

It is maybe the most male-privilegiest thing in the world for your point to be that a woman dealing with a massive life change ought to be putting the feelings of a man who already seems to have conquered his inner demons first in her reactions.

I don’t Believe that those have been the opinions expressed here at all. The seemingly, overriding feeling is, she basically dismisses everything about Bruce, who he is, what he has done, what he has gone through because, being a woman and having to deal with the garbage that women deal with, automatically makes her a better Hulk.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

I do have to say, in defense of the perspective of The She-Hulk, I share the dismissive attitude that she relayed to Bruce. I’m serious when I say this, and I’ll tell you why.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he put the gauntlet on, nearly died, and snapped everyone back….yeah, he did all these amazing things—but—what has Bruce personally done to stop the blight of obnoxious co-workers across the countryside?

Case closed.

I can only assume that by the time The She-Hulk series has wrapped, she will have put a stop to irritating co-workers everywhere. I expect the next episode for The She-Hulk to smash a random person who interrupts a co-worker in a Zoom call followed by throwing the most colossal of office super villains: “the loud typer”, “the at the desk teeth flosser”, “the after lunch gas-passer”, “the inappropriate joke teller”, and “the at the desk fingernail clipper ” out of a fifth story window, one-by-one, with righteous gamma infused-fury.

Beware the colossal power of The She-Hulk, Dwight…

View attachment 1612612

Beware…

After defeating both “the kingpin of office gossip” and “the mansplainer”, in the finale, she will walk down the highway as sad music plays on a piano…

Excelsior!!

I can always count on you to talk some sense into me!

 

[Picard102]

automatically makes her a better Hulk.

Where did she say that?

 

[Paul Andrew]

I don’t Believe that those have been the opinions expressed here at all.

Granted, my internet is **** here at work so I didn't watch the embedded YouTube video, but...

exactly the kind of reaction she should be having, acknowledging his problems, his mental, psychical and psychological traumas that he's still struggling with. Being the Hulk is trauma after trauma for Bruce.

Seems to be the opinion that she should be trying to put his past trauma's before her own current ones.

This isn't Bruce's show. It's not about him. He's already had many appearances in which his baggage has been addressed, however badly due to the Universal studios stuff.

This really feels like the thinnest excuse in the world for the anti-woke crowd to get up in arms about ANYTHING.

 

[CB2001]

Seems to be the opinion that she should be trying to put his past trauma's before her own current ones.

This isn't Bruce's show. It's not about him. He's already had many appearances in which his baggage has been addressed, however badly due to the Universal studios stuff.

This really feels like the thinnest excuse in the world for the anti-woke crowd to get up in arms about ANYTHING.

No, it's not that she should be putting his past trauma before her own current ones. It's saying she shouldn't just wave off the physical, emotional and psychological trauma Bruce as gone through like it was a skinned knee (and that is what it comes off as in the show). By how she is portrayed and how she pretty much treats his trauma as trivial, she should be putting it on the same level of what she's going through. He's suppose to be her family, yet she treats what he went through like it was nothing. This is just as bad as telling a clinically depressed person to cheer up and smile. It's heartless and wrong, that's what it is. His baggage may be "addressed", but trauma never goes away like a snapping of a finger, or when someone tells you to do so. Jennifer treated it like it was nothing. No human being should treat another's trauma like that. That's why the comic page does a better job at portraying how she should have reacted. That's the way a cousin would react to another that has suffered the way Bruce has, and even try to give some words of encouragement in hopes that he eventually feels better, despite the fact that he may never be better.

That's the difference between what you feel is the "thinnest excuse in the world of anti-woke crowd" and someone who is looking at it from a real world perspective. As an X-ray tech, I have had to deal with patients that have physical and psychological traumas (I'm expected to, it's a part of my job despite the fact I'm taking pictures or performing scans, and I've had to deal with some of them on the worst possible day of their existence), what Jennifer did in the show will never be considered acceptable in any regard. How she came off in the comic page presented would have made her more sympatric to the audience. But, like I said, "I guess it's too late now." And your opinion is pretty much set in stone, so there's no point in trying to sway you. So, I guess we can leave it at that.

 

[Paul Andrew]

From a real world perspective, it is unreasonable to expect someone who's just had their whole life upended and is in the middle of processing what that means for them, to pay any heed to anyone else's previous hardships regardless of how that may or may not relate to their situation.

Given time to reflect and process, maybe a person gets to that place, maybe they don't. People in general have difficulty seeing anyone else's perspective, let alone people in the middle of a drastic life altering event.

I don't find her reactions to have been cruel, or unthinking. She's focused on all the things that she thinks get her back to normal. It's confirmation bias, sure, but we all are prone to it, and in the second episode we get to see that despite her being able to control her Hulkiness in a way that he couldn't at the beginning, it brings other issues that he never had to deal with and that his perspective would have been meaningless toward.

Edit: I can't recall any specific point in which during any of these conversations any of us have changed our mind (it may have happened and I'm not recalling it though). For me it's not about winning a debate or proving my point or whatever. It's about having the conversation, and maybe showing that having a differing perspective doesn't mean "wrong".

 

[CB2001]

From a real world perspective, it is unreasonable to expect someone who's just had their whole life upended and is in the middle of processing what that means for them, to pay any heed to anyone else's previous hardships regardless of how that may or may not relate to their situation.

Given time to reflect and process, maybe a person gets to that place, maybe they don't. People in general have difficulty seeing anyone else's perspective, let alone people in the middle of a drastic life altering event.

I don't find her reactions to have been cruel, or unthinking. She's focused on all the things that she thinks get her back to normal. It's confirmation bias, sure, but we all are prone to it, and in the second episode we get to see that despite her being able to control her Hulkiness in a way that he couldn't at the beginning, it brings other issues that he never had to deal with and that his perspective would have been meaningless toward.

Question: Are you the kind of guy who would tell their cousin to get over losing a leg in a car accident, telling them to get up and go for a walk and then pull the wheelchair from underneath them, all because you lost a toe in a car accident? I'm guessing not. And I'm also guessing that you would relate more to people who wouldn't do that kind of stuff, especially to their family than you would those who would. And I'm guessing that as well.

But you should ask yourself this: Why does a large bulk of the viewers who have watched those scenes believe she is cruel to Bruce? Leave out the politics explanation. Leave out the "men bias" (because there are women who have watched that scene and have expressed the same issue with how the character treats Bruce). Leave out the "anti-wokeness" excuse. Hell, leave out the "just being fanboys" excuse. When you strip all of that way, what is the answer are you giving yourself to justify why a large bulk of the viewers who have seen these scenes don't see it the same way as you do? And if you can live with that answer, okay. You don't have to explain it to us. It is something you have come to conclude about yourself.

Like I said, your opinion is pretty much set in stone and nothing I can say will change that. So, I'm leaving you to your opinion and whatever you have come to terms with in regards to how you see the characters. You see her as a sympathetic. I see that she wasn't and she could have been more.

 

[Paul Andrew]

Question: Are you the kind of guy who would tell their cousin to get over losing a leg in a car accident, telling them to get up and go for a walk and then pull the wheelchair from underneath them, all because you lost a toe in a car accident? I'm guessing not. And I'm also guessing that you would relate more to people who wouldn't do that kind of stuff, especially to their family than you would those who would. And I'm guessing that as well.

But you should ask yourself this: Why does a large bulk of the viewers who have watched those scenes believe she is cruel to Bruce? Leave out the politics explanation. Leave out the "men bias" (because there are women who have watched that scene and have expressed the same issue with how the character treats Bruce). Leave out the "anti-wokeness" excuse. When you strip all of that way, what is the answer are you giving yourself to justify why a large bulk of the viewers who have seen these scenes don't see it the same way as you do? And if you can live with that answer, okay. You don't have to explain it to us. It is something you have come to conclude about yourself.

Like I said, your opinion is pretty much set in stone and nothing I can say will change that. So, I'm leaving you to your opinion and whatever you have come to terms with in regards to how you see the characters.

Please don't take this as a dig, but you literally just asked me a question, surmised my response, and then effectively told me you don't need to hear back from me on the topic.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not offended or anything. It's kind of amazing.

 

[CB2001]

Please don't take this as a dig, but you literally just asked me a question, surmised my response, and then effectively told me you don't need to hear back from me on the topic.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not offended or anything. It's kind of amazing.

I asked you two questions, surmised on one. And told you you didn't have to answer me in the other. The one I surmised on is one that is optional to answer, which is "Are you the kind of guy who would tell their cousin to get over losing a leg in a car accident, telling them to get up and go for a walk and then pull the wheelchair from underneath them, all because you lost a toe in a car accident?" Because I believe you are not the kind of human being who would be that cruel to their own family like that, just as much as I assume that for characters you would connect with would also be those who also wouldn't treat their family like that. Unless I'm wrong on those assumptions. If I am, I apologize.

The other (which is the one that I didn't need an answer for), it was mainly me asking you to reflect on why a large bulk of viewers, stripping away the usual "anti-woke"/fanboy/"men bias" excuses feel that Jennifer treated Bruce cruelly and not see it the same as you. It's meant to be a self-reflective question I'm asking. If you strip away those typical excuses and you find an answer as to why you feel that others saw Jennifer's behavior towards Bruce's past trauma as cruel, and you're still willing to accept that, that whatever answer you come up with you alone and will never be able to be disproven because, as I've mentioned, you're point of view is apparently set in stone with you. As I've said, "You see her as a sympathetic. I see that she wasn't and she could have been more."

I'm not offended. I was trying to treat you as a flesh and blood human being. And I'm sorry if I haven't.

 

[Paul Andrew]

There's a lot here, so let me split it up a bit to address your points as well as I can. I'm just getting home after 11 hours at work and it's time for a drink. Here we go!

You see her as a sympathetic. I see that she wasn't and she could have been more.

I haven't actually said that I see her as sympathetic, but it didn't take much to see where she was coming from for me though. Something happened to her that was beyond her control and it changes everything about her life. Like most superheroes, amazing powers, lots of real-life complications.

Ironically, I feel more sympathy for Bruce. He's basically an elder statesman of the Avengers at this point, three of his dearest friends and comrades are gone, and he's left to help keep the world spinning in their absence. Then, suddenly he sees an opportunity to pass down everything he's learned about how to deal with his particular set of powers to a brand new Hulk, but it turns out most of what he knows isn't that useful to her because she doesn't have the same lived experience that he had. Instead of getting to be a mentor, he has to take a backseat and let this new Hulk figure herself out. Most superhero origins involving a mentor figure have some version of this, where the mentor is ignored at first, sometimes at the peril of the new hero.

Are you the kind of guy who would tell their cousin to get over losing a leg in a car accident, telling them to get up and go for a walk and then pull the wheelchair from underneath them, all because you lost a toe in a car accident?

I don't think that is at all the situation we're looking at here, to be frank. Bruce has had a great deal of trauma, to be sure, but at the point that we see him in this show he has basically come to terms with his inner turmoil and fused his warring personalities, or at least set up a treaty of some kind between them. His wounds are old, and the ones that didn't heal all the way are at least scarred over. He knows them inside and out, they're part of him now.

Jennifer's are fresh. She doesn't know what to do with them, or how to rebuild her life around them. Without a second personality warring for control of her body, she clearly doesn't have as difficult a row to hoe as Bruce did, but she has something to contend with that he didn't. Bruce came into his powers in a world that only knew how to be frightened of him, and spent a lot of time on the run before he knew how to control them. The problem Jenn faces is totally different. Going on the run isn't an option for her. She has to integrate her new powers into her life in some way, and isn't ready to give up her old life. It's a battle of her choosing, certainly Bruce wasn't given the choice, but it's her battle nonetheless.

To borrow from your analogy, it's more like Bruce broke a leg and tried use his broken leg experience to help Jenn, when she has a hyperextended knee. His situation just doesn't apply as much to hers as he thought it did, and her frustration at that is understandable. Any time where you put two competent, smart people in slight opposition to each other you're going to get a little friction.

He felt justified in trying to use his experience as the Hulk to show her how to deal with her emotions, after all why wouldn't he? From his perspective learning to control his anger has been the lynchpin of his whole world as the Hulk. She already knows how to keep her emotions in check when necessary, as a matter of physical and emotional survival, because from her POV it's necessary for her to do so as a woman.

I didn't see anyone being cruel, I saw a heated disagreement brought on by two very different perspectives, with neither one being wrong, just adapted to suit their own experiences. Then they punch each other a little bit and everything is OK again because comics.

 

[CB2001]

If that's how you feel, I'm not gonna argue with it. To me, it doesn't feel that way. Yes, your analogy makes sense, but the fact is that someone who has a broken leg knows how difficult it is to move around, and probably has learn a way to be able to move around without causing more pain and suffering while they're in recovery, which can be useful for someone who hyperextended their knee. Maybe her disregard, as it comes off as, will come back and bite her in the rear, making her realize that there may be some things that Bruce knows that she doesn't, resulting in her having to ask for his help (this could be a way of her hubris biting her in the rear, which has happened before with a few characters in the comics. Even Thor had such a problem in his first MCU film). I doubt it, but it is a good setup for such a scenario.

Even with the events of Episode 2 has a setup that I feel is a miss opportunity. If they really wanted to use the whole liability excuse for her firing, then they could have at least done it to tie into the events of Captain America: Civil War and ground the world of the MCU even more. I mean, she gets fired and then she discovers that the Sokovia Accords has a stipulation that the Nations that agree to the Accords have it required that if someone is superpowered and they have to acknowledge it to their employers in case their powers happen to be dangerous (this could even tie into the Ghost Rider storyline with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., where there was an Inhuman who could generate fire of his own will, working at a fireworks store. And, it makes sense as now at this point in the MCU's existence, superpowered people are common place and some still don't have complete control of their abilities), and the reason why she's considered a "liability" is due to the fact she became superpowered and didn't let her employers know of it. And they could have used that as a good setup for a story where Jennifer actually starts challenging the Accords on the behalf of those who are superpowered because it's a violation of the rights of those who are superpowered. Who knows at this point if the writers have even considered that, eh?

 

[Treadwell]

Just putting out there that narratively it is okay for our main character to say something unfair to another character. Protagonists must have flaws.

 

[CB2001]

Just putting out there that narratively it is okay for our main character to say something unfair to another character. Protagonists must have flaws.

True. But that only applies if they're going to have something happen that shows that maybe she should have listened to Bruce, and that he was right for trying to teach her what he knew about being the Hulk. That her hubris of not listening to him and prioritizing her work over the safety of other people came back to bite her in the ass as a result. And thus far, in two episodes, doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[JPH]

I don’t Believe that those have been the opinions expressed here at all. The seemingly, overriding feeling is, she basically dismisses everything about Bruce, who he is, what he has done, what he has gone through because, being a woman and having to deal with the garbage that women deal with, automatically makes her a better Hulk.

EXACTLY!!!

Just putting out there that narratively it is okay for our main character to say something unfair to another character. Protagonists must have flaws.

Except she is being PRAISED for her comment. This thread has plenty of people supporting her for "putting Bruce in his place.".

Ultimately, there are two choices here: 1) An inability to comprehend what Bruce has gone through, so significantly beyond anything she has ever experienced, that it gets normalized.

or

2) So invested in the absurd, woke, out-of-touch message, that a cognitive dissonance kicks in.

I cringe to wonder what *COULD* she have said that *would* make her defenders finally realize how broken that scene was. It wasn't a stake in the ground to build a relatable foundation for a good tv series, it was a nail in the coffin.

Shutting down free advice from someone who Saved the universe because you have been catcalled is like arguing a firecracker is more destructive than a supernova... a terrible hill to die on

And I am stressing that once scene but, the show, from the very first scene, has been on that track.

 

[Paul Andrew]

Except she is being PRAISED for her comment. This thread has plenty of people supporting her for "putting Bruce in his place.".

Here's the thing, even if people were praising her for putting Bruce in his place - which I have not seen or done to my recollection - his place in this situation would have been to offer help and guidance. Not dictate every step she needed to take in order to be a good Hulk.