Constantine (2005) - Balthazar Coin

[Mach]

Regarding the coin thickness, a bronze byzantine follis' weight varies between 10-15 grams. Thickness would be between 1.6mm - 2.6mm.
A quarter weighs 5.67 grams and the diameter is 24.3 with a thickness of 1.75mm. Assuming a similar diameter to thickness ratio, the thickness of the Constantine coin would be 2.2mm. Steering towards a heavier coin may be more satisfying when actually holding it. Calling the thickness at 2.5mm.

 

[Mach]

After seeing the coin pictures, I'm wondering if these 2 coins were early prototypes and they were plated for the film. They look decidedly bronze in the photos but coin footage looks silver. At 9:36-9:41 (Balthazar's stairwell scene), the coin appears to be silver. Pretty sure its not just the lighting making it look silver. (I've tried to slow the clips down. The coin is only on screen for seconds.)

Again at 38:15 (Midnite's Club), the coin is barely shown but the reflection looks silver and highly polished....in other words, not aged.

At 1:10:15 (Beeman's workshop), the lighting is red tinged but it still looks silver. It looks as though it was plated, patina'd and then polished to a high sheen.

 

[Krats]

After seeing the coin pictures, I'm wondering if these 2 coins were early prototypes and they were plated for the film. They look decidedly bronze in the photos but coin footage looks silver.

It would make sense for the coin to be silver. The moderate amount of research I undertook suggested the coin was meant to be one of Judas' 30 pieces.

How's the sculpt coming along?

 

[Mach]

Interesting, I'd love to know more about that. I was assuming it was meant to be a Byzantinian period coin given the back.

On the sculpt, we're chipping away at it. I've made a ham fisted attempt to trace the outlines to get 2.5D version but I'm an amateur. More talented RPF hands are modeling it now to get a fully detailed, 3D version.

In the interim, I've ordered a set of draft bronzes from Sculpteo using the initial model. I'll post photos when I have them.

 

[Krats]

Interesting, I'd love to know more about that.

There's a Youtuber who talks about content deleted from the movie. He mentions the coin in this video at 26:48.

I can't verify the information from any other sources, so not sure how much weight to give it.

 

[Mach]

Thank you, I do appreciate the info. I've got things wrong before. I could be wrong on this but not sure if this is true or retconning. Here's my reasoning.

Here's all the script excerpts that mention coins. I do find script stubs or dialogue for the other deleted scenes. My interpretation, again I could be wrong, but... the coin was always carried by Balthazar. He was known for it. John doesn't see it in any scenes other than the split second in Papa Midnite's but instantly recognizes it as Balthazar's coin in the bowling alley scene.

Balthazar was not at Midnite's to have an appraisal done and the coin was not in Midnite's collection previously per the script. Looking back through the comics, I cannot find references to a Shekel.

Balthazar intentionally left it to lure Constantine, with Angela, to him. The plot doesn't move forward otherwise. The "into the light" deleted scene doesn't add any new information about John's condition or Balthazar so I understand why it was cut.

Lastly, its understood that Judas was paid with silver shekels [Wikipedia]. The numismatic experts trying to figure out what those coins were has been going on for hundreds of years and make the Balthazar coin search look like child's play. The point is the lore is well established for the Judas coins. I'm doubtful that the prop maker would insert a Byzantine Follis from ~550 AD on the back of a coin intended to have been minted in ~30 AD.

Stairwell Scene
This is BALTHAZAR and he definitely does not rent here.
He flicks an ancient COIN between his fingers.

Papa Midnite's Bar

One of the men in the group turns, watches John.
Balthazar. He grins and pockets that odd COIN.

JOHN
It's bad enough that you let these half-breeds in at all but this piece of **** --
BALTHAZAR
Perks of becoming a primary investor.
JOHN
What?!
Midnite's eyes say it all -- not here, not now.
BALTHAZAR
Things change, balances shift. Get used to it, Constantine.

Bowling Alley (deleted or changed for filming)
INT. 20 LANES BOWLING ALLEY
Something small and SHINY is rolling down the alley. It lands in the trough, spins round and round --
Beeman leans out to try and see what it is. The silver object keeps spinning.
He waits for it to stop, swats a fly near his face. Then another.
Book on his desk ignites in flame.

Bowling Alley after Beeman's death
JOHN
Who are you?! Answer me!! Goddamit -- reveal yourself! I summon you!
He angrily rips his sleeves up -- revealing two distinct TATTOOS on his forearms. Slams them together with all his might -- clenching his eyes tight -- concentrating -- Veins in his arms and neck bulge, look ready to explode --
Angela steps back in awe as the air around his outstretched arms begins to WARP -- to tear a faint hole from the bowling alley right into another world right
here -- darker -- Hellish --
JOHN
Into the light I command thee!! Into the light I --
John is choked by a cough -- can't finish -- arms separate and he buckles to his knees, reveals to Angela just how ill he really is.

Bowling Alley after bathtub scene
INT. BEHIND THE ALLEY
Angela runs behind the vertebrae of machines, dripping water the entire way. John tries to keep up.
ANGELA
It was rolling toward him -- not a ball -- something smaller. Shiny.
She stops, kneels to the floor. John walks up to join her.
Something glints in the catch trough. She reaches down, plucks it up and brings an odd COIN INTO VIEW --
John's face contorts with rage as he takes the familiar coin.
JOHN
Balthazar.

INT. LATE NIGHT RESTAURANT (John's Diner monologue - adapted to the liquor store scene)
BUSBOY looks up, meets Balthazar's eyes. Bitter enemies.
Balthazar grins, flips that coin between his fingers. He leaves out the back exit.

 

[Krats]

Thank you, I do appreciate the info. I've got things wrong before. I could be wrong on this but not sure if this is true or retconning...

All good points, I suspect you are correct. I did like the idea that it was intended to be one of THE shekels though, made the coin feel significant in its own right.

 

[Mach]

All good points, I suspect you are correct. I did like the idea that it was intended to be one of THE shekels though, made the coin feel significant in its own right.

100% agree. I really wanted the coin to be from the reign of emperor Constantine XI given the history.

Previously Istanbul was Constantinople named after the Roman emperor, Constantine the Great. Interesting, he was also said to have been in possession of the Spear of Destiny during his reign.

The city of Constantinople fell to the Ottoman Turks in 1453 after the emperor was killed during an 8 week siege. So the last Roman Emperor was Constantine XI. His predecessor and brother was John VIII and their father was Manuel II. The scavenger in the movie who finds the Spear in Mexico was named Manuel.

I liked the idea of Balthazar nudging the fall of Constantinople and the Roman empire then leaving with a memento coin but that would be really obscure lore.