Captain America: Brave New World

[Bloop]

The Falcon & the Winter Soldier made a big plot point about Sam not needing superpowers to be a hero, but, the thing is, he has superpowers. Like Tony Stark or Ant Man, he has technology that gives him super abilities. Just because he doesn't have physically super strong muscles doesn't mean he's not a superpowered hero.

The thing that bothers me about the MCU is they went from Tony Stark being the only one who could be Iron Man to literally anyone. So why doesn't Tony give armor to all the Avengers? Even if they have powers, a suit of armor is a hell of a lot more powerful and protective than the rest of the team has. Like Hawkeye has the superpower of perfect aim, aided by technological arrows, but you're telling me he wouldn't benefit from an Iron Man suit? Or Black Widow? They don't even wear helmets in combat! It's not like Tony doesn't trust them with the tech. He gave Spider-Man an armored suit, and he even gave his wife a suit of armor as a gift, which she used to fight Thanos and his army with, presumably, no combat experience. For that matter, the Wakandans could give Black Panther energy-absorbing nanotech suits to all their army if they wanted. We've seen no real reason why they couldn't.

The whole MCU stops making sense when you really examine the minutia. I personally think it was a mistake to go too futuristic with all the tech. The first Iron Man was more grounded and had limits. When they made his armor not reliant on his personal arc reactor, and made the suits nanotech so he didn't have the restrctions of having machines dress him in them, and made the tech easy for anyone to instantly use, it made his character and the MCU less interesting and more confusing. Limits are good for heroes and storytelling.

 

[Cephus]

The Falcon & the Winter Soldier made a big plot point about Sam not needing superpoers to be a hero, but, the thing is, he has superpowers. Like Tony Stark or Ant Man, he has technology that gives him super abilities. Just because he doesn't have physically super strong muscles doesn't mean he's not a superpowered hero.

The thing that bothers me about the MCU is they went from Tony Start being the only one who could be Iron Man to literally anyone. So why doesn't Tony give armor to all the Avengers? Even if they have powers, a suit of armor is a hell of a lot more powerful and protective than the rest of the team has. Like Hawkeye has the superpower of perfect aim, aided by technological arrows, but you're telling me he wouldn't benefit from an Iron Man suit? Or Black Widow? They don't even wear helmets in combat! It's not like Tony doesn't trust them with the tech. He gave Spider-Man an armored suit, and he even gave his wife a suit of armor as a gift, which she used to fight Thanos and his army with, presumably, no combat experience. For that matter, the Wakandans could give Black Panther energy-absorbing nanotech suits to all their army if they wanted. We've seen no real reason why they couldn't

The whole MCU stops making sense when you really examine the minutia. I personally think it was a mistake to go too futuristic with all the tech. The first Iron Man was more grounded and had limits. When they made his armor not reliant on his personal arc reactor, and made them nanotech so he didn't have the restrctions of having machines dress him it it, and made the tech easy for anyone to instantly use, it made his character and the MCU less interesting and more confusing. Limits are good for heroes and storytelling.

That's been a problem with Marvel in the comics forever. Most of the heroes are in New York City, so why, when some big bad villain shows up, is it not inundated by dozens of heroes? It's relatively rare for anyone to show up in a different comic and always has been.

You can't think about any of this logically or it all falls apart.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

That was the problem with not having Spider-Man in the MCU for so long. Like we're supposed to believe aliens tried to invade Earth above NYC and Spider-Man sat that one out?

 

[Astyanax]

That was the problem with not having Spider-Man in the MCU for so long. Like we're supposed to believe aliens tried to invade Earth above NYC and Spider-Man sat that one out?

I thought the MCU explained that by showing us in Homecoming that this was years before Peter's spider accident?

 

[NakedMoleRat]

I thought the MCU explained that by showing us in Homecoming that this was years before Peter's spider accident?

Yep, at the time of "Civil War", he'd only been bitten six months prior.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Ah okay I missed that.

 

[TimDRX]

Nanotech was fine when it was just Wakandan and they were isolationist (and Guardians had it out in spaaaace) but yeah Tony figuring it out by Infinity War is one of those things like the Snap - once it's introduced it's difficult to handwave away why the entire world isn't about this one thing now.

I guess you could make the argument that it's too expensive or inefficient? The weakness with the Mark 50 Iron Man seemed to be that each bit of damage limited what it could do as you had fewer nanites to work with, but I dunno, it also stood up to a guy wielding a mostly complete Infinity Gauntlet, it seemed pretty powerful!

 

[AJTaliesen]

The Falcon & the Winter Soldier made a big plot point about Sam not needing superpoers to be a hero, but, the thing is, he has superpowers. Like Tony Stark or Ant Man, he has technology that gives him super abilities. Just because he doesn't have physically super strong muscles doesn't mean he's not a superpowered hero.

The thing that bothers me about the MCU is they went from Tony Start being the only one who could be Iron Man to literally anyone. So why doesn't Tony give armor to all the Avengers? Even if they have powers, a suit of armor is a hell of a lot more powerful and protective than the rest of the team has. Like Hawkeye has the superpower of perfect aim, aided by technological arrows, but you're telling me he wouldn't benefit from an Iron Man suit? Or Black Widow? They don't even wear helmets in combat! It's not like Tony doesn't trust them with the tech. He gave Spider-Man an armored suit, and he even gave his wife a suit of armor as a gift, which she used to fight Thanos and his army with, presumably, no combat experience. For that matter, the Wakandans could give Black Panther energy-absorbing nanotech suits to all their army if they wanted. We've seen no real reason why they couldn't

The whole MCU stops making sense when you really examine the minutia. I personally think it was a mistake to go too futuristic with all the tech. The first Iron Man was more grounded and had limits. When they made his armor not reliant on his personal arc reactor, and made the suits nanotech so he didn't have the restrctions of having machines dress him in them, and made the tech easy for anyone to instantly use, it made his character and the MCU less interesting and more confusing. Limits are good for heroes and storytelling.

Movie and comic writers can't resist upping the power levels until eventually it becomes silly. Superman started out able to leap tall buildings in a single bound and now is able to lift tall buildings and walk under them. It infests other movies as well; In the Office, Michael Scott points out that in the original Die hard, Bruce Willis is playing a cop. Yes a really good cop, but not a super hero...he gets beat up, cuts his feet, etc...a few movies later and he's jumping a motor cycle into a helicopter.

There's a belief among writers that audiences won't go for it if you don't step up the power level every movie. I think they're wrong, but what do I know?

Right or wrong, the result is that franchises have a shelf life. My favorite is Rocky...who started out as a feel good story about an average boxer who manages to stay on his feet against the champ through sheer force of will and over the course of four movies becomes the greatest most unstoppable boxer of all time.

 

[TimDRX]

Rocky is also a great example of reining it back in though! 5 through Creed were back to being very grounded, realistic feeling situations. Creed 2 got reasonably silly again, while Creed 3 was again pretty grounded and a step down from 2.

Back to Brave New World though - I would be a little sad to see Sam willingly become a super soldier. I like that a normal person can be Cap! Admittedly a normal man in a Wakandan super suit, so probably safe to say he's closer to Iron Man than Hawkeye now? The whole point of Steve getting the serum vs a better soldier that Tommy Lee Jones would have chosen was his strength of character, which is also why Sam got the shield over Bucky. He can be a heroic symbol, Bucky's history as a HYDRA agent sort of rules that out (though the TV show had him putting in the work of earning forgiveness from his victims, which I loved)

I could see it being forced on him though. Whether that would work or not is all in the execution but I could imagine this whole Red Hulk thing goes badly enough for Sam that he needs to get a blood transfusion from, oh, say, Isiah Bradley...

 

[Bloop]

Rocky is also a great example of reining it back in though! 5 through Creed were back to being very grounded, realistic feeling situations. Creed 2 got reasonably silly again, while Creed 3 was again pretty grounded and a step down from 2.

Back to Brave New World though - I would be a little sad to see Sam willingly become a super soldier. I like that a normal person can be Cap! Admittedly a normal man in a Wakandan super suit, so probably safe to say he's closer to Iron Man than Hawkeye now? The whole point of Steve getting the serum vs a better soldier that Tommy Lee Jones would have chosen was his strength of character, which is also why Sam got the shield over Bucky. He can be a heroic symbol, Bucky's history as a HYDRA agent sort of rules that out (though the TV show had him putting in the work of earning forgiveness from his victims, which I loved)

I could see it being forced on him though. Whether that would work or not is all in the execution but I could imagine this whole Red Hulk thing goes badly enough for Sam that he needs to get a blood transfusion from, oh, say, Isiah Bradley...

The Isiah Bradley storyline iin CA: BNW s the most interesting thing for me. I'd actually like to see a flashback series starring Bradley, seeing what actually happened and how he fought.

 

[Cephus]

Movie and comic writers can't resist upping the power levels until eventually it becomes silly. Superman started out able to leap tall buildings in a single bound and now is able to lift tall buildings and walk under them. It infests other movies as well; In the Office, Michael Scott points out that in the original Die hard, Bruce Willis is playing a cop. Yes a really good cop, but not a super hero...he gets beat up, cuts his feet, etc...a few movies later and he's jumping a motor cycle into a helicopter.

They really have to though. They've been doing it for decades. They start with a hero, that hero faces a villain that is more powerful than they are, they have to dig deep and come up with previously unknown strength so they can beat the villain. Lather, rinse, repeat. This is a problem when the story never ends. Eventually, the hero gets so ridiculously powerful that nothing can stand up against them, so they reset everything back to zero and do it all over again and again and again.

 

[Treadwell]

Have we talked about Cap's shield?
They say it absorbs kinetic energy. Okay, that's good for stopping bullets.
But that also means it could not be thrown like a frisbee and have it bounce around like a pinball, hitting multiple things. It would hit ONE THING or person (and fall to the ground), and they would not be hurt because the shield absorbed the energy of the collision.

 

[renaissance_man]

Have we talked about Cap's shield?
They say it absorbs kinetic energy. Okay, that's good for stopping bullets.
But that also means it could not be thrown like a frisbee and have it bounce around like a pinball, hitting multiple things. It would hit ONE THING or person (and fall to the ground), and they would not be hurt because the shield absorbed the energy of the collision.

Don't forget Spiderman's observation in Civil War "that thing does not obey the laws of physics at all".
Certain things have to be taken with a punch of salt. Sometimes the shield rebounds, other times it will impact and become lodged.
For me it is about the characters and whether they are likeable, the more fantastical elements are just that.

There are plenty of things in "serious" dramas that are clichéd but you have to roll with them. Some examples, people being able to sleep in a room with the curtains wide open and light beaming in to allow them to be filmed, there always being an inexplicable bright light source in a remote dark forest, phones ringing to cut people off mid-sentence when delivering a crucial piece of plot detail, being able to hang on single handedly on a high ledge despite having very little upper body strength.

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

I've always assumed that Cap's shield behaved differently because of the various angles it was struck.

If you shoot at it or punch it directly, it's going to absorb the energy & stop the force, but if it hits something at an angle, like if it's thrown like a Frisbee, then the edges would flex enough to bounce it back.

I'm not saying that's a realistic interpretation, but I'm thinking that some comic-based pseudoscience would have a similar explanation.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

I've always assumed that Cap's shield behaved differently because of the various angles it was struck.

If you shoot at it or punch it directly, it's going to absorb the energy & stop the force, but if it hits something at an angle, like if it's thrown like a Frisbee, then the edges would flex enough to bounce it back.

I'm not saying that's a realistic interpretation, but I'm thinking that some comic-based pseudoscience would have a similar explanation.

Someone needs to remind me, again, how Vibranium ore behaves in the real world.

 

[renaissance_man]

Someone needs to remind me, again, how Vibranium ore behaves in the real world.

To paraphrase Star Trek property mastery Joe Longo in the DS9 behind the scenes special when talking about what a Tricorder does "however Kevin Feige wants it to".

 

[Captain Dunsel]

The film hasn't even been released and already that tired arguement of "woke blah, blah, blah" is being bandied about.
This could be why films don't do well, preconceived opinions and personal bias generating a swell of negative opinion before anyone has even seen it.
People speak of superhero fatigue, personally I'm getting bored of the "anti-woke" brigade spreading negativity.
Fandom is its own worst enemy.

Brave New World looks to be in the same vein as Winter Soldier, a sort of political thriller. But judging by a recent release, people seem to want a plethora of juvenile d*ck jokes, profanity, pointless cameos and Easter eggs to make up the bulk of their movies.

To each their own I suppose.

I absolutely understand where you are coming from, here.

All valid observations.

Of course…unless we are talking about my criticisms—which are always valid and never tainted by fandoms’ worst impulses…I exist on a fluffy white cloud, far above the fray…

 

[renaissance_man]

It appears that Red Hulk is producing a fiery burn to things he touches, this makes me think we could see the return of Extremis from Iron Man 3 in someway linking to whatever it is that is transforming Ross into Red Huljy. Couple that with Tiamut from Eternals and this film could be a fantastic way to link, call back to and possibly resolve some previously open plot points from previous films.
I'm really looking forward to this film, especially since there were no new MCU films in 2024.

 

[renaissance_man]

Some cool new posters.

 

[renaissance_man]

For those questioning how Sam goes up against Red Hulk without the serum, they might want to check out the latest TV spot and keep an eye out for a key piece of tech related to Sam's wings.