Building The Death Star - PRODUCTION

[Jedifyfe]

The work here on this is brilliant!

I would love to get one so bad.

How large is this sphere shown?

Perhaps some leds that lite and pulse from gun area as well?

Kits when done?

Tom

Who can I commission for a 1:1 life sized one?

How large is this sphere shown? HUGE, I don't remember the size exactly but I have seen it in person and this thing must be about 12 feet in diameter.

Kits when done? As per Rob, not a chance

Who can I commission for a 1:1 life sized one? Not Rob, unless you have a briefcase full of cash and you throw in your Lambo :love

Brad

 

[PHArchivist]

How large is this sphere shown? HUGE, I don't remember the size exactly but I have seen it in person and this thing must be about 12 feet in diameter.

Kits when done? As per Rob, not a chance

Who can I commission for a 1:1 life sized one? Not Rob, unless you have a briefcase full of cash and you throw in your Lambo :love

Brad

Well said, Brad...!

Tom, this is such a massive project (on various levels) that kits or commissions (at least for me) are not a prospect.

Were it to be a kit, I'd do just what you'd have to do on your own, or what I did already - go to a commercial plastics fabricator wth the correct dimensions, and have them whip it up for you. The only "Kit Piece" I'd stand to offer would be the dish.

Comissions...? Five large, at least - easy. And I'm not kidding. It's between one and two grand in materials alone. Add time and effort, shipping, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera... Nto for the feint at heart.

 

[PHArchivist]

Random thought/inquiry Number One:

On the Blade Runner features, they talked about the lamp placed in the Tyrell building model. Other than the shape, the model was basically the same thing as the Death Star - a clear-plexi construct, painted over, and lit from within. Similar internal volume too.

They said they used a 10K lamp - ten THOUSAND watts!

Any film pros want to comment on this? I have four to five hundred watts at best right now.

 

[PHArchivist]

Random thought/inquiry Number Two:

Remember my woes about the trench height? When Brad was over, we were analyzing the photos of the original.

Brad had postulated they may have taken apart the model to insert the new lighting equipment and the dish replica for the museum display

From a couple perspectives, this makes sense. The original has a very small access hole (about the idameter of a DVD) very low on the back. using this hole to install the lighting or the dish would be a bear, if not impossible.

Also, there's photographic evidnece that suggests they may have done so, although the evidence is somewhat contradictory.

If Moes or Gus are on-line and monitoring this, I'd really appreciate any insight, private or public.

 

[stonky]

Random thought/inquiry Number One:

They said they used a 10K lamp - ten THOUSAND watts!

Any film pros want to comment on this? I have four to five hundred watts at best right now.

While I can't comment specifically on the Blade Runner application for the light, I can say that 10k's are fairly typical for a film shoot.

 

[PHArchivist]

While I can't comment specifically on the Blade Runner application for the light, I can say that 10k's are fairly typical for a film shoot.

Would they use that much wattage so it'll read properly on film? Or will it need something like that to look OK in person?

 

[TridCloudwalker]

From my understanding, it's so it shows up under the studio lights. These were filmed before the days of doing a camera pass for lights only to matte onto the film later.

 

[Robiwon]

It also caught fire because of the heat generated from the lighting.

 

[stonky]

From my understanding, it's so it shows up under the studio lights. These were filmed before the days of doing a camera pass for lights only to matte onto the film later.

I believe that the lights were shot in a different pass (one of the reasons why the repeatable motion with the motion control camera was so important). Engine lights, cabin lights, were all shot on a different pass.

I know that they had to use excessive light for the motion control shots because of their aperture settings. In order to keep everything in focus as the camera traveled along the track, the aperture had to be very small and the models required A LOT of light in order to be exposed properly. You also want to use as slow a film (ASA) as possible as well, in order to reduce the grain, also requiring long exposures and lots of light. This is also why a lot of the ships had internal fans, to keep them from melting under the intense heat.

 

[Agent Smith]

Random thought/inquiry Number One:

On the Blade Runner features, they talked about the lamp placed in the Tyrell building model. Other than the shape, the model was basically the same thing as the Death Star - a clear-plexi construct, painted over, and lit from within. Similar internal volume too.

They said they used a 10K lamp - ten THOUSAND watts!

Any film pros want to comment on this? I have four to five hundred watts at best right now.

Rob -

I'm pretty sure the 10K lamp is not in watts, it is the color temperature in the spectrum of light that is produced. Unless, of course, the documented verbiage actually said "10k watts."

A 10k lamp is used because it produces a crisp white color vs the reddish/yellowish/blueish produced from other frequency bulbs. Obviously, that would be important when filming. If the light were not pure white, it would alter the colors of subject when filming unless that was the intention, e.g. sunset/sunrise, moon light, etc.

A 10,000 watt bulb would destroy just about anything, other than metal, that was surrounding it. Keep in mind, those area searchlights that you see outside movie premiers, clubs, etc. are only 4000 watts/can. Imagine a single bulb 2.5 times brighter than that behind the model. I don't think you'd even be able to look at it much less film it.

I think that the total wattage you will need will be determined by the size of the holes you will be making, the distance of those holes from the internal light source and the strength of the ambient light source in the room. The more wattage the hotter it will get, especially in a confined space. Given that you will want to keep this spherical object spherical and not sag over time, I would place a few internal fans for air movement in addition to the external exhaust fan. A lot of heat will accumulate at the north pole and stirring the air up inside should help to keep the heat uniformly distributed.

BTW, this is a great build, I can't wait to see how it turns out.

JS

 

[modeleers]

Re: white light & film usage - Well Writ, Agent Smith!
Rob, Great talking with you!
And remember to have more fun than the recommended adult dosage!

 

[stonky]

I'm pretty sure that in this case the 10,000 refers to foot candles.

 

[PHArchivist]

Good info on the lamp, one and all - Thanks!

Right back at you, Mike! :thumbsup

 

[Agent Smith]

I'm pretty sure that in this case the 10,000 refers to foot candles.

Stonky -

I have to respectfully disagree. Foot Candles (fc), or candelas, are a measurement how much light reaches a target from a known source over a given distance.
It is not a measurement of how strong the source was. The source's strength is actually needed to derive the the fc value itself.

In any case fc's are a relative measurement. That number would vary from the prop guy standing 10 feet from the source vs the D.O.P. standing 20 feet from the source.

Despite the relative nature of foot candles, full unobstructed sunlight has an intensity of approximately 10,000 fc when directly overhead at mid day.
Seems like overkill for a movie prop, unless it was supposed to be the sun.

Sorry, don't want to hijack the thread. I'll shut up now.

JS

 

[GKvfx]

Stonky -

I have to respectfully disagree. Foot Candles (fc), or candelas, are a measurement how much light reaches a target from a known source over a given distance.............

Agent Smith is correct. "10k" does indeed refer to the wattage. And yes, that's a hell of a lot of wattage. Now you know why studios have their own power plants or bring generator trucks with them.

Following upon the discussion regarding engine and navigation lights, etc - yes, motion control lets you film multiple passes with a degree of precision. One thing you want to avoid doing though, is changing the f-stop (exposure). When you do that, you affect focus. When that happens, you get lights that don't line up with the model. Unfortunately, this means that if you shot a beauty pass at a very small f-stop (say f-32), you have to shoot the running lights or engine lights at f-32. Since they don't put out as much light as the lights used to light the ship, you need a longer exposure. This isn't a problem since the MOCO system can compensate for the longer exposure times when it moves the camera. What becomes an issue is time. If you have a 120 frame shot (5 seconds on screen), and you have an exposure time of 1 minute per frame - that's two hours, just to shoot that lighting pass. It can add up quickly, and if you need to shoot three or four passes with similar exposure times - well, it can eat up a day (or night) real quick. And the longer you have a hot light on a model, the more likely it is to melt (like the aforementioned Tyrell building). Universal Hartland used a special high heat epoxy resin (similar to J-B Weld) that has metal in it for their model parts that had to have lights in them. It help mitigate the heat. Other models had air lines running to a compressed air tank that circulated cold air through the model.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Death Star programming. I sent some photos up to Lorne Peterson, and Rob - he thinks your a crazy talented guy. That is, talented AND crazy. Regarding the detail around the perimeter, he replied, "For sure the dome was blowmolded a little bit more than a half sphere. The dish had some detail added of course but I'm not sure about the equator."

Gene

 

[Laffo]

I have a question - How are they using a 10k lamp? Wouldn't that require an Osram or equivalent, and you'd need an igniter and blah blah blah?

My largest projector uses a 6500 watt lamp and will blind you. I also have 3 exhaust fans to keep the thing from burning steel.

Just curious as to how it was used. To light the inside or outside of the model?
I'm really confused.

Laffo.

 

[PHArchivist]

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Death Star programming. I sent some photos up to Lorne Peterson, and Rob - he thinks your a crazy talented guy. That is, talented AND crazy. Regarding the detail around the perimeter, he replied, "For sure the dome was blowmolded a little bit more than a half sphere. The dish had some detail added of course but I'm not sure about the equator."

Gene

Gene - awesome on many levels! All I can say is that I don't know what to say to the fact that Lorne Peterson knows my name (or work, at least!). That alone makes this whole nose-dive into insanity worth it! Lorne, and Grant McCune have been heros of mine since just abut 1978. Tell Lorne to call me; we'll get together and have a beer!


And a note of apology to you all - Sorry for the lull in action and progress.

Two reasons...

First, been working on the tedious and slow process of light-proofing the mother. Trench was difficult but nearly done. The dish circumference however is a plain old *****. But I'm getting it. I can only work on light proofing at night due to windows in the shop, and it isn't dark now until later in the evening when my wife is hollering at me and the kids are screaming.

Second is hemming and hawing on the painting guide/jig/rig/whatever. Trying a new method, intimidated about getting it right, dragging my feet.

 

[PHArchivist]

I have a question - How are they using a 10k lamp? Wouldn't that require an Osram or equivalent, and you'd need an igniter and blah blah blah?

My largest projector uses a 6500 watt lamp and will blind you. I also have 3 exhaust fans to keep the thing from burning steel.

Just curious as to how it was used. To light the inside or outside of the model?
I'm really confused.

Laffo.

Unsure. Keep in mind I've generated a lot of discussion on a fairly moot point. It was based on a one or two line comment on the Blade Runner DVD that was by no means a technical how-to. Not even sure what they used on the Death Star. And with my four puny 100 watt incandescents, I'm getting a fair amount of light coming out already; enough that light proofing it has been a pain in the ass.

 

[Laffo]

Okay. I'd be nervous with 500 watts in the ball.

I have an old steel lamp house that a 4800 watt bulb burned through the floor of. I'm pretty sure it'd make your Gal a ball of slag.

Yep, the light proofing will be tough. Stop by a neon shop and see if they can show you some black out. Stuff works good and now comes in a spray I believe.

Laffo.

 

[stonky]

Stonky -

I have to respectfully disagree. Foot Candles (fc), or candelas, are a measurement how much light reaches a target from a known source over a given distance.
It is not a measurement of how strong the source was. The source's strength is actually needed to derive the the fc value itself.

In any case fc's are a relative measurement. That number would vary from the prop guy standing 10 feet from the source vs the D.O.P. standing 20 feet from the source.

Despite the relative nature of foot candles, full unobstructed sunlight has an intensity of approximately 10,000 fc when directly overhead at mid day.
Seems like overkill for a movie prop, unless it was supposed to be the sun.

Sorry, don't want to hijack the thread. I'll shut up now.

JS

I sit corrected.