They are refering to Frank Virga, and he did not go to jail for selling replicas as Screen-used, he went to jail for another reason.
BEWARE: Mike S. MR PREDICTA. REPLICA ROCKETEER BUCKLES!
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They are refering to Frank Virga, and he did not go to jail for selling replicas as Screen-used, he went to jail for another reason.
Onigiri
Sr Member
The person youre thinking of is John Marco from Marco Enterprises. He did get a CnD but he didnt move to Canada. He stayed in Anaheim. He was pretty much the first guy to have a business that focused around selling a wide range of props. They werent the most accurate but they were the only game in town and he would deliver within days. I used to collect his catalogs.
Ripcode
Well-Known Member
Since they "contributed so much to the hobby", this should just be swept under the carpet?? :confused
Utinni
Sr Member
Please keep on topic.
I know they are both busy guys and can understand if it's hard to get to the board, but I and I'm sure the rest of us would like a little more answers to some of the questions their rebuttals brought up.
Mainly their altering of the english language to suit their needs. Their definition of a replica is a BIG one but also Mike's reply when I asked about it's condition:
I even asked about it AGAIN since it did look brand new to me when I got it in the mail:
How was anyone supposed to know to ask if it was a replica if no one ever mentioned them being made or available? Like people have said, Mike had a great reputation before this, and that is one of the reasons I originally didn't question him. He's in the core Rocketeer circle and it wouldn't be unusual for them to come across an extra buckle and offer it to some one they knew was building a costume.
He didn't have to give out his source, but he should have come out and said yes it's a replica, when I asked him about it, after David (Cirrusx1) mentioned it to me. And not lied and say he didn't know a thing about replicas or that his "source" didn't have the capitol to do it.
Why was he trying to be SO vague? Sounds like he had something to hide, and he did.
-Jeff
I know they are both busy guys and can understand if it's hard to get to the board, but I and I'm sure the rest of us would like a little more answers to some of the questions their rebuttals brought up.
Mainly their altering of the english language to suit their needs. Their definition of a replica is a BIG one but also Mike's reply when I asked about it's condition:
The "like" is the key word here. I don't know about you, but I took it that it was NOT brand new and that it was still functioning fine. He should have said it IS a newly made piece.
I even asked about it AGAIN since it did look brand new to me when I got it in the mail:
Mike's reply:
Since, as far as I know, the only people that knew these metal replicas were produced were: Clint, Mike and John, with Michael (Evil Rocketeer) finding out about it just days before Mike contacted me and before this I have never talked to Michael. David (Cirrusx1) knew something about it since he had previously made wax patterns off of Bob's buckle that was taken apart, but as far as I know didn't know about the full run. I also have never talked to David before this. He was the one that mentioned my buckle could be a replica from the Acme camp.
How was anyone supposed to know to ask if it was a replica if no one ever mentioned them being made or available? Like people have said, Mike had a great reputation before this, and that is one of the reasons I originally didn't question him. He's in the core Rocketeer circle and it wouldn't be unusual for them to come across an extra buckle and offer it to some one they knew was building a costume.
He didn't have to give out his source, but he should have come out and said yes it's a replica, when I asked him about it, after David (Cirrusx1) mentioned it to me. And not lied and say he didn't know a thing about replicas or that his "source" didn't have the capitol to do it.
Why was he trying to be SO vague? Sounds like he had something to hide, and he did.
-Jeff
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Grey
Sr Member
That seems to be the general consensus of people defending the people involved in this. They are/we're really good people so that should excuse what they've done for the most part, everyone should hug and we should just forget about all of this.
The point that these people in question seem to be missing, is that without consequence, what is to stop this from happening again in the future? Even when the people involved in this finnaly spoke up, it was like a backhanded apology that tried the lay the blame on other people, or describe that they 'had the best intentions' when they purposely decieved people.
Do I think these people should be lynched? No. Do I think they should be forgiven? That is a question I am having trouble deciding. I am a man who always believes in a 'second chance', however the people involved here have not even expressed sincere remorse for what they did, they tried to justify thier lies rather than owning up to thier mistakes.
The only way these guys should be forgiven and not banned is if they offer a full (non-BS laden apology) and refund ALL of Jeff's money.
After all, 150 buckles X $300 (a conservative price) = $45,000
eek
If that isn't enough profit for you guys, then being dishonest isn't your worst problem.
I have no problem people asking what they want to for their wares, but you have got to be honest about what you are offering.
After all, 150 buckles X $300 (a conservative price) = $45,000
eekIf that isn't enough profit for you guys, then being dishonest isn't your worst problem.
I have no problem people asking what they want to for their wares, but you have got to be honest about what you are offering.
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Utinni
Sr Member
I feel refunding all of my money is nothing but hush money and a way for me to go away and have this swept under the rug. That doesn't fix the problem.
I'm am still interested in the $250 refund that was originally on the table, I never turned that down. I know a recent auction ended without meeting the reserve, it only reached $300 and Mike’s current auction is only at $102.50. So the $400 price point so far is not what most people were willing to pay for a replica, and ebay is usually a good place to find the going rate for an item, AS LONG AS it states what it truely is without question. But that was the original amount we had talked about. I understand they need to make their money back on them, and if they are fine with refunding the $250 and then end up droppring their price more to sell them, I will be fine with that too. We talked about the $400 price point ($250 refund), I will keep my word.
But that doesn't buy my silence on the matter or excuse what Mike, Clint or John did. It is not a forgiveness on the lies and lack of business ethics. I am not backing down from my stance that I, and others were lied to and mislead. And so far it doesn't appear that they acknowledge any real wrong doing. Their reply was full of excuses and cheap parlor tricks and jokes to side track the issue.I don't feel there was any type of genuine regret for their actions. Only that they got caught.
They both hid behind their pasts and their names, but it doesn’t give them a get out of jail free card. They want people to hold them up to high standards for offering rare items or their time in the industry and connections, but in order to do that they also need to hold themselves to that level as well. As mentioned before by others, I think greed got the better of them.
They both feel I ruined their reputations, I didn't. They did that to themselves.
I understand that Clint, Mike and some of the other Rocketeer builders, as well as members of this board that are connected to them or are friends will no longer talk to me or deal with me. But you know what, that is fine. My morals don't bend for resin trinkets or to be "connected" to the inner circles. You can't buy my friendship or business that way. And I can sleep at night knowing I'm not for sale.
I think Mike and Clint still owe myself, the other people involved and this community a real apology. They can't start making good until they understand and take responsibility for their actions.
I'm NOT trying to be some hero, there are NO winners in this. But I know this has truly helped our hobby more than hurt it, in the long run
- Jeff
I'm am still interested in the $250 refund that was originally on the table, I never turned that down. I know a recent auction ended without meeting the reserve, it only reached $300 and Mike’s current auction is only at $102.50. So the $400 price point so far is not what most people were willing to pay for a replica, and ebay is usually a good place to find the going rate for an item, AS LONG AS it states what it truely is without question. But that was the original amount we had talked about. I understand they need to make their money back on them, and if they are fine with refunding the $250 and then end up droppring their price more to sell them, I will be fine with that too. We talked about the $400 price point ($250 refund), I will keep my word.
But that doesn't buy my silence on the matter or excuse what Mike, Clint or John did. It is not a forgiveness on the lies and lack of business ethics. I am not backing down from my stance that I, and others were lied to and mislead. And so far it doesn't appear that they acknowledge any real wrong doing. Their reply was full of excuses and cheap parlor tricks and jokes to side track the issue.I don't feel there was any type of genuine regret for their actions. Only that they got caught.
They both hid behind their pasts and their names, but it doesn’t give them a get out of jail free card. They want people to hold them up to high standards for offering rare items or their time in the industry and connections, but in order to do that they also need to hold themselves to that level as well. As mentioned before by others, I think greed got the better of them.
They both feel I ruined their reputations, I didn't. They did that to themselves.
I understand that Clint, Mike and some of the other Rocketeer builders, as well as members of this board that are connected to them or are friends will no longer talk to me or deal with me. But you know what, that is fine. My morals don't bend for resin trinkets or to be "connected" to the inner circles. You can't buy my friendship or business that way. And I can sleep at night knowing I'm not for sale.
I think Mike and Clint still owe myself, the other people involved and this community a real apology. They can't start making good until they understand and take responsibility for their actions.
I'm NOT trying to be some hero, there are NO winners in this. But I know this has truly helped our hobby more than hurt it, in the long run
- Jeff
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DrStranglove
Sr Member
No winners to be sure, but there should be many fewer losers now thanks to your outing these scam artists.
Okay...just read this entire thread. It's a bit like one of the Blackberry commercials where you just need someone to take over, like the one where delivery guys are finding the high school kid, or roadies are running an airline. ("Dude, buckle up...")
here goes...
Utinni, you bought item. Finds out that item is not authentic. Mike, you screwed up, bad boy. Mike say you're sorry. Clint, you trusted Mike to be cool, he screwed up... big time. Mike say you're sorry again to Clint. Utinni, accept the refund, or something... but for god's sake stop whining about it. Your noble 'doing this for the good of the community' is nauseating. Do we really need you, or anyone else, to make it all better for us. You still gave someone your money. That's a risk in this hobby, right? Not always too smart. Happens all the time in the big bad world, and smidge of street smarts goes a long way. Clint isn't a bad guy, you're not a bad guy, Mike is not a bad guy... some things could be handled better, but for crying out loud, it's a buckle. No one is hurt, no one is out of work over it. No one is getting buried.
Get some perspective and move on.
You sound like the kid who never got picked for the team, or an only child...
you're a grown man.
Now everyone shake and move on.
here goes...
Utinni, you bought item. Finds out that item is not authentic. Mike, you screwed up, bad boy. Mike say you're sorry. Clint, you trusted Mike to be cool, he screwed up... big time. Mike say you're sorry again to Clint. Utinni, accept the refund, or something... but for god's sake stop whining about it. Your noble 'doing this for the good of the community' is nauseating. Do we really need you, or anyone else, to make it all better for us. You still gave someone your money. That's a risk in this hobby, right? Not always too smart. Happens all the time in the big bad world, and smidge of street smarts goes a long way. Clint isn't a bad guy, you're not a bad guy, Mike is not a bad guy... some things could be handled better, but for crying out loud, it's a buckle. No one is hurt, no one is out of work over it. No one is getting buried.
Get some perspective and move on.
You sound like the kid who never got picked for the team, or an only child...
you're a grown man.
Now everyone shake and move on.
ahhhh....He was offered a refund BUT it has not been sent to him AFTER he accepted. Your logic is faulty. So in fact, he is out $250 that he has been promised. If that is whining to you Nektu, then YOU send him the $250 and let's be done with it. It's always easy to say enough is enough when you have no dog in the fight. (you don't, do you?)
While there is always an inherent risk in anything, especially in this hobby, on the RPF there are CLEAR rules regarding this level of deceit. Maybe it's OK in your book that RPF'rs ripped some people off, but I grant you that 99% have a problem with it and the other 1%, if that, have an interest in seeing this quietly buried.
You are right on one thing, it is just a buckle. A piece of metal. But thats exactly what it is...It is not an authentic item worth what it was sold for. Utinni has been clearly ripped off and even after accepting a refund, has not received it. That's not sour grapes, that's waiting for what's owed to you. He is OWED $250.
If it was you in his place, you'd be all over this board trying to recoup your money.
That, my friend, is perspective.
While there is always an inherent risk in anything, especially in this hobby, on the RPF there are CLEAR rules regarding this level of deceit. Maybe it's OK in your book that RPF'rs ripped some people off, but I grant you that 99% have a problem with it and the other 1%, if that, have an interest in seeing this quietly buried.
You are right on one thing, it is just a buckle. A piece of metal. But thats exactly what it is...It is not an authentic item worth what it was sold for. Utinni has been clearly ripped off and even after accepting a refund, has not received it. That's not sour grapes, that's waiting for what's owed to you. He is OWED $250.
If it was you in his place, you'd be all over this board trying to recoup your money.
That, my friend, is perspective.
ahhhh, Nekro.. you're incorrect.
I have been in his place, been 'took' and I was able to settle it the old fashioned way, between me and the seller. No boards were ever harmed in the process. It's not difficult. (one even took three years, but I got every dime back...)
I am not saying there weren't mistakes, but mistakes can be rectified.
I'm running back to my glass house now. Or Facebook, where everyone is nuts, and you know where you stand.
I have been in his place, been 'took' and I was able to settle it the old fashioned way, between me and the seller. No boards were ever harmed in the process. It's not difficult. (one even took three years, but I got every dime back...)
I am not saying there weren't mistakes, but mistakes can be rectified.
I'm running back to my glass house now. Or Facebook, where everyone is nuts, and you know where you stand.
Mistakes can be rectified, you're right, but apparently, there is no rush to rectify these ones and these sure wasn't any rush until this thread was started.
While I applaud your persistence and success in getting your money back, I can assure you that not everyone shares your success. I've been 'took' for a $400 vader helmet 6 years ago and seller disappears. $400 for another helmet to a teacher in Kentucky who told me to F myself. I'll never see that money again. Ever.
There is no more old fashion way. This is business and when a business rips you off and offers nothing in the way of retribution (save for an empty promise of a refund) then every avenue becomes available to rightfully regain the money due.
Let's not forget that there were others who were taken as well. This is not an isolated incident and potentially more RPF'rs would have fallen for this scam had it not been for Utinni.
While I applaud your persistence and success in getting your money back, I can assure you that not everyone shares your success. I've been 'took' for a $400 vader helmet 6 years ago and seller disappears. $400 for another helmet to a teacher in Kentucky who told me to F myself. I'll never see that money again. Ever.
There is no more old fashion way. This is business and when a business rips you off and offers nothing in the way of retribution (save for an empty promise of a refund) then every avenue becomes available to rightfully regain the money due.
Let's not forget that there were others who were taken as well. This is not an isolated incident and potentially more RPF'rs would have fallen for this scam had it not been for Utinni.
gotta disagree again...
The 'old fashioned' way does exist. I live it every day. You have to deal with your good and bad situations with the same integrity, not measure it out to each one separately.
Everyone here has overpaid for something on eBay, and everyone here has scored an incredible deal, too. It's part of the whole process. Win some, lose some. I think his beef has some merit, but to what level...again hard to say.
I don't know that promises here are 'empty', but Utinni has his right to air the laundry anywhere he wants. He's a big boy. I just find it a bit stomach turning.
Our interests here seem pretty common, and I'm not saying anyone should lower standards... I just don't want anyone lording theirs as 'better' either. The mob mentality is a disturbing to me.
Figure out how to make it right, and do it... pick up the phone, get on a plane, use Western Union... whatever it takes.
The 'old fashioned' way does exist. I live it every day. You have to deal with your good and bad situations with the same integrity, not measure it out to each one separately.
Everyone here has overpaid for something on eBay, and everyone here has scored an incredible deal, too. It's part of the whole process. Win some, lose some. I think his beef has some merit, but to what level...again hard to say.
I don't know that promises here are 'empty', but Utinni has his right to air the laundry anywhere he wants. He's a big boy. I just find it a bit stomach turning.
Our interests here seem pretty common, and I'm not saying anyone should lower standards... I just don't want anyone lording theirs as 'better' either. The mob mentality is a disturbing to me.
Figure out how to make it right, and do it... pick up the phone, get on a plane, use Western Union... whatever it takes.
lonepigeon
Master Member
If Jeff didn't come forward on the board how would everyone else know to avoid being ripped off?
These guys already ripped off 4 or 5 other people. How many more would have been taken advantage of if Jeff hadn't publicly spoke up?
We've all had bad experiences with ebay or some prop deal, but it's not always an isolated incident. I would hope most people would tell the community about bad deals so it doesn't keep happening.
It's a long thread. People are ticked off and rightly so.
These guys already ripped off 4 or 5 other people. How many more would have been taken advantage of if Jeff hadn't publicly spoke up?
We've all had bad experiences with ebay or some prop deal, but it's not always an isolated incident. I would hope most people would tell the community about bad deals so it doesn't keep happening.
It's a long thread. People are ticked off and rightly so.
Utinni
Sr Member
Also, I believe it belongs here because this is where Mike contacted me first:
Private Message: Re: Rocketeer Harness Buckle for Cirrus X302-28-2009, 08:17 PM mr.predicta
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 593
Rocketeer Harness Buckle for Cirrus X3
If your still interested in a buckle let me know.
I may be able to get another.
cheers
MSL
__________________
Here I am ..brain the size of a planet and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper... call that job satisfaction for you ? well I dont. Life! dont ask me about life.
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DrStranglove
Sr Member
So says the guy with 60 or so posts.
How do you contribute again? Or thats right, you dont.
You left for face book? Great! Stay there.
defstartrooper
Sr Member
What's your purpose for posting here Nektu ?
I ask because it appears by your own words you are whining about someone whining do you see the irony ?
Surely you can't be defending the behaviour of people deliberately defrauding other individuals and condemning the victim for having the integrity to warn other possible victims ?
I ask because it appears by your own words you are whining about someone whining do you see the irony ?
Surely you can't be defending the behaviour of people deliberately defrauding other individuals and condemning the victim for having the integrity to warn other possible victims ?
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