Axanar - Crowdfunded 'Star Trek' Movie Draws Lawsuit from Paramount, CBS

It sounds like AP's legal training gave him just enough rope to hang himself with. If so, he wouldn't be the first.


I have zero sympathy. His legal position is wrong. His motivations for the court battle smell all wrong. His pre-Axanar rep in the hobby wasn't good. He risked bringing the axe down on the whole ST hobby for his own benefit.
 
Looks like just fighting over discovery. An ex parte filing from the plaintiffs regarding (I think) emails that Peters apparently didn't provide them, which wasn't taken too well by the judge in the case.

But bottom line, nothing conclusive has happened, and the people reporting on it (at least based on what's cited on Axanar's blog) are treating molehills as mountains.

Legally speaking, Axanar is still dead in the water, as far as I can see.
 
Yeah. There's a big scandal about how Alec didn't turn over emails (which he then said it wasn't his fault, it was the fault of his legal representation) and they have to now outline their financials which were being withheld for being 'embarrassing' for the people involved in Axanar. No real movement on things until after discovery phase is over in a couple of days, but lots of interesting info has come out. They're bringing JJ Abrams in as a witness, too. I'm interested in seeing how that goes.
 
:lol:lol:lol:lol

I just bet their finances are embarrassing!

And what on God's green Earth does JJ have to testify about? He has zero involvement, and zero knowledge of anything remotely relevant to any non-ridiculous defense against infringement. If it went to trial, I'd move to have him struck as a witness, and I'd win that one. In my sleep.

Now, withholding evidence -- that's interesting. Not surprising, but interesting.

I bet the judge has had it up to his gavel with AP by now. Maybe he'll get to add sanctions to his damages. :)
 
JJ may have muddied the waters with his ambiguous statement back when he said something along the lines of talking to the studio about Axanar.
With a huge grain of salt and really stretching things, I suppose you could take the stance that he misled Axanar into believing they had approval.
Alec Peters strikes me as the sort who might just be arrogant/deluded/desperate enough to try this angle.
 
Alec Peters strikes me as the sort who might just be arrogant/deluded/desperate enough to try this angle.

He is probably just flailing around trying to grab hold of anything within reach now.

I don't think he ever was so very delusional like people speculate. He had been taking stupid risks until recently because he though he had nothing to lose.
 
And what on God's green Earth does JJ have to testify about? He has zero involvement, and zero knowledge of anything remotely relevant to any non-ridiculous defense against infringement. If it went to trial, I'd move to have him struck as a witness, and I'd win that one. In my sleep.

JJ Abrams attended a Star Trek Fan Event at Paramount Studios promoting Star Trek Beyond and said these words. This was broadcasted live on the internet by the way.

"A few months back there was a fan movie, Axanar that was being fan made, and there was this lawsuit between the studio and these fans. And Justin was sort of outraged by this as a longtime fan. And, we started talking about it and realized this was not an appropriate way to deal with the fans. The fans should be celebrating this thing, we all as fans are part of this world. So he went to the studio and pushed them to stop this lawsuit and now within the last few weeks it will be announced that this is going away and the fans will be able to continue their productions."

Emphasis mine. I'd hardly qualify this statement as Abrams having zero involvement and knowledge of this issue. Which leaves me with some questions. Did this meeting between Justin and the studios actually happen to the point where both Justin and Abrams were convinced that the studios were going to drop the suit, or... Did Abrams say this to try and win over the fans in order to get them to go see Star Trek Beyond? After all, he didn't tell us when the studios would drop the suit, he simply said it will be announced. So even if it hasn't been dropped by the time the movie is out, it wouldn't matter because he got more people in the theater. Has the date for the drop been announced? No. Have things gotten any better? No.
 
JJ Abrams attended a Star Trek Fan Event at Paramount Studios promoting Star Trek Beyond and said these words. This was broadcasted live on the internet by the way.

"A few months back there was a fan movie, Axanar that was being fan made, and there was this lawsuit between the studio and these fans. And Justin was sort of outraged by this as a longtime fan. And, we started talking about it and realized this was not an appropriate way to deal with the fans. The fans should be celebrating this thing, we all as fans are part of this world. So he went to the studio and pushed them to stop this lawsuit and now within the last few weeks it will be announced that this is going away and the fans will be able to continue their productions."

Emphasis mine. I'd hardly qualify this statement as Abrams having zero involvement and knowledge of this issue. Which leaves me with some questions. Did this meeting between Justin and the studios actually happen to the point where both Justin and Abrams were convinced that the studios were going to drop the suit, or... Did Abrams say this to try and win over the fans in order to get them to go see Star Trek Beyond? After all, he didn't tell us when the studios would drop the suit, he simply said it will be announced. So even if it hasn't been dropped by the time the movie is out, it wouldn't matter because he got more people in the theater. Has the date for the drop been announced? No. Have things gotten any better? No.

I think the bigger question is "what does this have to do with anything at all?" So what if JJ stated that the lawsuit was going to be dropped? If he had no authority to speak on behalf of the studios, then his statement is pointless. I can make a public statement that the lawsuit is going to be dropped. But who cares? I don't have any authority to speak on behalf of the studio either.

The defendants are trying to drag him in on two different theories, I understand, both of which are pointless IMHO:

1. "JJ said the lawsuit was going to be dropped, which is proof that the studio supported – or at least tolerated – fan films, so the defendants were justified in proceeding with making their film because they believed that the studio would not have a problem with it." Again, we've seen nothing so far to indicate that JJ had any authority to speak on behalf of the studio – in fact, the studio seemed as surprised by this as everyone else, and had to scramble the next day to follow up with a meek statement that "settlement discussions are ongoing." Furthermore, how can this public statement lead someone to believe that what they were doing would not run afoul of the studios, when the lawsuit was filed in December 2015, and the statement was made in May 2016? Did Axanar get their DeLorean up to 88 and go into the future to hear this statement before deciding to proceed with their film a few years earlier?

2. "JJ's statement proves that fan activities only help the studio, and therefore the defendants have caused the studio no financial harm. This supports both a lack of damages on copyright infringement grounds and also supports the claim of fair use." Again, unless it can be established otherwise, I see no grounds for imputing any statement made by JJ to the studio. But, to take this to its logical conclusion, there is absolutely no requirement under copyright law that the plaintiff actually suffer any financial harm for the defendant to be liable for damages. This is why the law prescribes that the plaintiff is entitled to both its actual damages and the defendants profits – even if the plaintiff suffered no actual damages, it is still entitled to any profits of the defendant. Furthermore, even if the plaintiff has suffered no actual financial harm, it can still elect to pursue statutory damages of up to $150,000 per infringement – which is, I understand, the route the studios are going here. Lastly, while financial effect on the plaintiff is one of the factors to be considered in the fair use analysis, it is only one of the factors, and a fair use defense can be denied - and the infringing use be deemed unfair - if the other three fair use factors militate against the defendants.

So, yeah, deposing JJ is just one more attempt by the defense to drag this out ( which they have been prone to do) and, as a side benefit, possibly put the studio in a rough situation with a very successful director as an attempt to gain leverage in settlement discussions. That's it.

M
 
Last edited:
After all, he didn't tell us when the studios would drop the suit, he simply said it will be announced. So even if it hasn't been dropped by the time the movie is out, it wouldn't matter because he got more people in the theater. Has the date for the drop been announced? No. Have things gotten any better? No.

Setting aside any motives of JJ, one more thing to bear in mind here - and an important fact some may not know - is that this statement was made on a Friday night. Defendants filed a counterclaim against the studios the following Monday. By adding the counterclaim, the defense shot themselves in the foot because, with the counterclaim filed, the plaintiffs could no longer simply dismiss their own lawsuit – as a matter of legal procedure, they now had to stay in the case to defend against the counterclaim. So, even if JJ had been completely accurate, the defense basically made him a liar by playing some gamesmanship and adding the counter claim which effectively removed the studios' freedom to dismiss the lawsuit as JJ had stated. I'm still shaking my head over why the defendants didn't really rethink that particular strategy given they had the whole weekend to do so after JJ made the statement - they even mentioned the statement JJ made in their filing which added the counterclaim. So they really have no one but themselves to blame that the lawsuit is still going on.

M
 
I can make a public statement that the lawsuit is going to be dropped. But who cares? I don't have any authority to speak on behalf of the studio either.

Yes, but you don't have an exclusive partnership with the studio nor have you been given the keys to the Star Trek film franchise the way JJ Abrams does. So when JJ Abrams says something about the studios and Star Trek, it carries weight. Especially when the film franchise is the only relevant source of new Star Trek material for the past 11 years.
 
Yes, but you don't have an exclusive partnership with the studio nor have you been given the keys to the Star Trek film franchise the way JJ Abrams does. So when JJ Abrams says something about the studios and Star Trek, it carries weight. Especially when the film franchise is the only relevant source of new Star Trek material for the past 11 years.
"Weight" is irrelevant.

The relative quality of Star Trek offerings is irrelevant. It's CBS/Paramount's IP, end of story, and they could use it to make a cheap flip-book with stick figures if they wanted to, and Alex Peters can't. Period.

JJ Abrams' statement is irrelevant. Period.

There is absolutely zero that JJ Abrams knows or can say that will reasonably lead to the discovery of evidence admissible at trial, which is the standard you have to meet in discovery. And to be admissible at trial, evidence must first and foremost be relevant to the issues at trial, ​in this case being whether Axanar is an unauthorized derivative work of Star Trek. Discovery is not a random fishing expedition. Any first-year law student knows that.

No judge (who's not on Axanar's payroll) will allow JJ to testify at trial without a proffer that establishes what he has to say that bears directly on the question of infringement. I said I could win that motion in limine in my sleep because my frakking cat could win it in her sleep.

Everything else is just AP blowing smoke and stretching this out so he can keep some (soft-headed) fan goodwill after it's all over, and keep making money off them.
 
Agreed. JJA's testimony won't make it into court.

It wouldn't change the game if it did get in. JJA only ever said anything about the status of the case.


AP might eventually try to use the exclusion of JJA's testimony to help his public image, though. He could spread the idea that JJA's testimony would have helped exonerate him if it wasn't for the big bad evil Paramount attorneys keeping it out.
 
Agreed. JJA's testimony won't make it into court.

It wouldn't change the game if it did get in. JJA only ever said anything about the status of the case.


AP might eventually try to use the exclusion of JJA's testimony to help his public image, though. He could spread the idea that JJA's testimony would have helped exonerate him if it wasn't for the big bad evil Paramount attorneys keeping it out.
Yup. At this point it's all for propaganda value.
 
It wouldn't change the game if it did get in.
Interesting observation -- that's exactly why it would never get in. In order to be considered relevant, a piece of evidence (or a witness statement) has to tend to prove or disprove an alleged fact that's at issue in the case. In other words, you just stated the definition of relevance. If you look at JJ Abrams' statement in that light, it's easy to see why his testimony would have nothing to do with the case. Nothing he said (or would know) has any chance at all of proving or disproving whether Axanar is an infringing work.

maxresdefault.jpg

:p
 
That's what I mean.

It's like AP is on trial for stealing from a 7-Eleven in the middle of the day. AP could say "the guy who works the night shift told somebody the other day that the owner didn't care!" but it's not going to help his case any. It's utterly irrelevant.

Even if it had been coming from a valid representative of the owner (and AP would need to sell that idea too), it still wouldn't mean anything because the owner isn't dropping the case after all.


The only way that calling in JJA would even begin to make sense, would be if JJA had told AP that the owner didn't care before AP did the stealing. (It wouldn't get AP off the hook but it might get JJA's testimony into the courtroom.) That is not what happened.

Calling JJA is about as logical & valid as AP's entire case. It's the behavior of a publicity-hounding PITA with nothing to lose.
 
Last edited:
This thread is more than 6 years old.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. This thread hasn't been active in some time. A new post in this thread might not contribute constructively to this discussion after so long.
If you wish to reply despite these issues, check the box below before replying.
Be aware that malicious compliance may result in more severe penalties.
Back
Top