ANOVOS issues (ANOVOS ONLY discussion)

[TradeCraft]

Many have accused Anovos of running a Ponzi scheme or taking people's money with no intention of delivering.

Communication has been spotty for a few years. Others have complained about slow refunds and slow delivery of in stock items for quite a while.

It sounds like they have cut back on their customer support staff which wasn't great to begin with.

Hopefully they are focusing on getting items produced and delivered. Even if they send out updated delivery estimates there is so much scepticism about the accuracy that it is pretty much a waste of effort. They need to start actually delivering more items to get some faith back.

I believe "going dark" usually means there is no sign of activity at all. They have been bad about responding to things like requests for refunds and requests for updates, but they have had some signs of still being active. The lack of updates on their Facebook site or a Labor Day sale seems strange.

Yes, some have indeed likened Anovos to a Ponzi scheme, but I don't think anyone is saying the company started with that intent. Do realize, that in some ways a Ponzi scheme is in fact what they have become. Regardless of original intent, a Ponzi scheme by definition relies on the funds of new investors to reward or pay off early adopter's investments. Some companies have tried to buy their way out of debt, only to get deeper and deeper, and get caught up in the lie become to become a Ponzi Scheme.

The fact is, Anovos bet big on an expensive license and cheap overseas production with very little ROI and razor thin profits. As products have not met Quality Control and failed Lucasfilm approval, they started loosing money on production. After multiple failed overseas production attempts, they are now bringing more products to stateside production, not all with better manufacturing results. They are loosing money on may production runs, and trying to sell new preorders to fund final production of older orders. They cancelled the Jyn scarf, because they didn't sell enough preorders and they couldn't cover the cost of the minimum order of 250 units.

 

[TradeCraft]

I think it is much more complex than simply softgoods vs hardgoods as far as determining which factory produces an item. I doubt the leather gloves are made at the same place as Han's shirt or vacuformed helmets made at the same place as fiberglass helmets. Obviously the schedules of the factories may prevent one from producing a particular item even though they have the ability to produce the product.

The OT TK design was an intentional clean up of what the originals looked like. They kept some of the wonkiness and removed some. Anyone that wants warts and all should order from another vendor.

I don't understand why they didn't get the color of the Shoretrooper helmet right. I agree it isn't correct. They should have had very good reference to go by to get it exactly right. When they announced Shoretrooper armor, I asked if an unpainted helmet would be available so the customer could paint both with the same color. They said no. Another reason for an unpainted helmet is to allow whatever weathering the customer wants to add. I know we could do all of that with the helmet they made, but many of us don't want to pay for the finished helmet and repaint it. I know some have done that.

No, I really don't expect a modern OT TK to be an exact copy of the original vacuformed props, including all the bumps, flaws, and blotchy paint of the Original Trilogy. I completely welcome a modern version of what the originals TK Helmets looked like, for example the ROGUE ONE TK. Anovos had full access to the ROGUE ONE TK Helmets, so all the work was already done, and it's Star Wars canon. Sure if you want a modern smooth version, but more faithful to the OT helmets, then scan the RO TK and just remove the cut out vents from the 3D Scanned Model, and you're done... A modern version of the OT TK, with decals for the OT vents! However, they did more than just smooth the surface, reduce the one under eye bulge, and make it symmetrical. And as far as paint colors, that is also the advantage of having access to the original props. Thanks to Glyn Dillon, even mere mortals like us know the exact Montana Gold Tan, as well as the other paint colors used for the actual film props. They don't need to send a valuable screen used asset to China, just a $8 can of paint for color matching. I've working in photo studios for 10 years, so I understand color matching actual products to the exact CYMK color you see in printed catalogs. You just can simply take a photo of the prop with a Color Check Chart in the photo at the same focal plane, with the same lighting, and they can color match the colors in the photo in China.

And I wasn't saying all hardgoods are the same or all softgoods are the same, nor do they all get made in the same respective hard/soft factory. I know there have been 3-4 different factories in China that have attempted the Kylo outfit based on the extensive update blog. In addition to that, they have at least one soft goods factory in the USA, and I was told at least one in particular is in the LA area. I also assume there are more than one hardgoods factory. As a photograpgher, I have been around enough fashion shows, designers, and industry professionals to understand how labor intensive and unforgiving softgoods can be. We are seeing that from Anovos. I think the new softgoods that have been successful for Anovos have been made using very forgiving materials, like the cotton gauze like bandage material of the Rey costumes. But, when they try something that needs true precision and detail, their current factories have fallen short, even Stateside. Gloves are tricky to begin with, and the Jyn Gloves were far from a success. The Kylo costume is a beast, as Anovos has now learned. Treating the fabric, and at what stage of production, as well as the blade pleating of the sleeves are very precice work. Even the fibre content and material of the costume, without it looking and feeling like it's made of couch upholstery, is no easy feat.

But if you look at "lower priority" items, like the imperial officer's hat, it isn't that hard at all. Yes, you need a multi needle Machine for a single pass or a single needle JUKI with a jig to get even stitch spacing on the bill, but the rest is pretty normal hat construction. Disney already has a supplier with the needed sewing machines, because they already sell cheaper Officer's hats in simple black cotton at Disney World. Or, Anovos can go to a Chinese manufacturer already making WWII German M43 Reproduction hats, and it would be a "relatively" easy job for them. The fact that they have said for over two years that the Imperial Officer's Hat delay is due to their vigilant and exacting requirements to match the exact screen used color, is downright insulting for a hat that's simply BLACK. Anovos can't make a Shoretrooper helmet that is a random shade of Tan picked from a Behr Paint Book and then delay a BLACK hat for over 2 years it's supposedly because they are having a hard time matching the color.

The truth is, they obviously don't have the funds to complete everything simultaneously. They are basically admitting to this by saying the oldest, "and coincidentally most expensive" preorders take priority. They would rather refund a cheap black hat than any expensive Kylo Costumes. I'm not being rude, I'm just well informed and very observant.

 

[laellee]

Yep I agree on the slow circling down the toilet. I know all this has been covered, but just putting my thoughts together first:

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. At a certain point and after an exorbitant amount of time and number of delays, I think it's fair to say that (for some of us) the reasons/explanations really stop mattering. Never mind the communication gaps, quality issues even, 'the cost of licensing and doing business', ignore all of that. I mean even objectively looking at the situation and being able to say 'OK they did not fulfill their commitments to me, there is no guarantee as to if or when, I'll take my business elsewhere. Refund my money and we'll part ways amicably.'

But that's not happening; people that have not jumped ship are still unsure of if/when their items will arrive, and the people that decided to get out can't because refunds aren't being issued. Then comes the policy change of NO REFUNDS for customers after date X really shows they are trying to endemnify themselves from new customers being able to cancel/charge back/ etc, securing (however weakly) their revenue stream with any new orders and the funds that come with them.
So now if I understand it correctly, no shipping/status dates are being honored, no old customers with delinquent orders are being refunded, and refunds are not accepted on any new orders. At the same time, they are heavily promoting new pre-orders to bring in more revenue, while still operating on a shoestring and not really resolving any of the current problems. This sounds a heck of a lot like borrowing from Peter to pay Paul.

And if that's true, how much money will it take to bail themselves out just to clear delinquent sales, whether that be fulfilling them or refunding? And even if they could catch up, how much are they are funding with new pre-order deposits? And what happens then when it's time to develop and produce the new pre-ordered merchandise, where does that money come from?

"Maintaining the illusion of a sustainable business as long as new investors contribute new funds, and as long as most of the investors do not demand full repayment and still believe in the non-existent assets they are purported to own."

Sounds familiar to me. Just because it was not a company's original intention to defraud customers doesn't change the outcome at the end of the day. When you've lost all your money, labeling the reason a Ponzi scheme or blaming it on 'a series of unfortunate or unforeseeable events' really becomes a moot point. Just my two cents, and also why I am done with Anovos.

 

[ggriffaw]

Actually I'm surprised by how little there has been recently as far as discounts and new preorders. Hopefully that means they are trying to get some products delivered before taking on more. However I'm sure they will have some TROS products before too long.

 

[ggriffaw]

It will be interesting to see if they make the estimate for the Royal Guard helmet. They have a few weeks to show results of the production overhaul.

 

[JOATRASH FX]

....but they continually fail at producing much of anything of quality that involves fabric, cutting templates, stitching, thread choice, etc. One of the rare few softgood items to ship in recent times were the Jyn gloves, ....

The Jyn gloves were abysmal... beyond horrible, no question there, but out of all the soft goods I have bought- TNG Premiere Uniform, TWOK Monster Maroon STND, TOS Premiere+Standard Tunic, VOY/DS9 Standard tunic, Archer Jacket, TOS Premiere Dress and TNG Skant for my Better Half, plus the 1st Picard Darmok jacket, each and every one, with the exception of the Picard Darmok and VOY tunic has been jaw-droppingly gorgeous. I am not a complete dunce with a sewing machine (made suits for myself in the 90s and lately the Star Lord jacket and pants) they were all very well put together. The VOY tunic had a small misalignment by the zipper which I had corrected and the Darmok was just an awful fit- whomever patterned it must've been working off Grossly-Overweight-Hobbit measurements because it was about 3 sizes too wide and a full 2" shorter than they advertised! (They took it back without question... and back then even paid for the return shipping!)

I was very hesitant on the new Darmok jacket, but after several assurances that it was done from a completely different pattern than the first, I took a chance. I'm curious to see how the current soft goods items hold up (if/when they ever arrive).

On that note... this was posted by someone to the Facebook group:

I didn't get that e-mail myself, but if true, they are maintaining, with two weeks and change to go, that the Darmok V2 among other things are still on schedule to ship in Q3, just like their customer service rep told me recently in an e-mail.

If that is true, by now, they MUST know, with 100% certainty, if they are on a ship crossing the Atlantic or waiting to be loaded/unloaded for customs inspection. So if the Trek Q3 goods FAIL to ship in the next few weeks, it will be a pretty big piece of evidence that can likely be used against them in the law suit, as proof of fraudulent behavior. I would hope that they are clever enough to know that.

It's going to be an interesting few weeks...

 

[Krieger]

The Jyn gloves were abysmal... beyond horrible, no question there, but out of all the soft goods I have bought- TNG Premiere Uniform, TWOK Monster Maroon STND, TOS Premiere+Standard Tunic, VOY/DS9 Standard tunic, Archer Jacket, TOS Premiere Dress and TNG Skant for my Better Half, plus the 1st Picard Darmok jacket, each and every one, with the exception of the Picard Darmok and VOY tunic has been jaw-droppingly gorgeous. I am not a complete dunce with a sewing machine (made suits for myself in the 90s and lately the Star Lord jacket and pants) they were all very well put together. The VOY tunic had a small misalignment by the zipper which I had corrected and the Darmok was just an awful fit- whomever patterned it must've been working off Grossly-Overweight-Hobbit measurements because it was about 3 sizes too wide and a full 2" shorter than they advertised! (They took it back without question... and back then even paid for the return shipping!)

I was very hesitant on the new Darmok jacket, but after several assurances that it was done from a completely different pattern than the first, I took a chance. I'm curious to see how the current soft goods items hold up (if/when they ever arrive).

On that note... this was posted by someone to the Facebook group:
View attachment 1058777



I didn't get that e-mail myself, but if true, they are maintaining, with two weeks and change to go, that the Darmok V2 among other things are still on schedule to ship in Q3, just like their customer service rep told me recently in an e-mail.

If that is true, by now, they MUST know, with 100% certainty, if they are on a ship crossing the Atlantic or waiting to be loaded/unloaded for customs inspection. So if the Trek Q3 goods FAIL to ship in the next few weeks, it will be a pretty big piece of evidence that can likely be used against them in the law suit, as proof of fraudulent behavior. I would hope that they are clever enough to know that.

It's going to be an interesting few weeks...

I received that email. I am not doing any more preorders with Anovos. Still waiting on my TOS ‘sparkly pants’, and Kirk bomber jackets, amongst Rogue One and other items from ‘that other franchise’.

Anticipated 1Q20 for the Trek items I ordered, if the email is accurate at the time of delivery. That means from this day, somewhere between six months and two weeks from now, I will have something, or still nothing.

And agree about the Jyn gloves, put them in a bin, not to be looked at again, as that was the winter of our discontent. Will go to a finder (I mean maker) who has gloves my wife can work with

 

[TradeCraft]

I received that email. I am not doing any more preorders with Anovos. Still waiting on my TOS ‘sparkly pants’, and Kirk bomber jackets, amongst Rogue One and other items from ‘that other franchise’.

Anticipated 1Q20 for the Trek items I ordered, if the email is accurate at the time of delivery. That means from this day, somewhere between six months and two weeks from now, I will have something, or still nothing.

And agree about the Jyn gloves, put them in a bin, not to be looked at again, as that was the winter of our discontent. Will go to a finder (I mean maker) who has gloves my wife can work with

If you want to make your own, the screen used Jyn gloves are modified Black Diamond Stone Gloves. They are getting harder to find, so order a pair now in case you later want to make them.

 

[TradeCraft]

Actually I'm surprised by how little there has been recently as far as discounts and new preorders. Hopefully that means they are trying to get some products delivered before taking on more. However I'm sure they will have some TROS products before too long.

My feeling on that is because of something else. They had been selling as much as they could to recoup cash, limiting the sales to “in stock” items. Then they started running back to back 40% off sales, and extended the sale past the originally advertised end dates.

I think they decided to spend a bit of extra money to get more units of some new items that weren’t problematic so they could say they had “in stock” inventory of newly released items. They had bragged a while back about changing strategy to focus on having more items in stock and ready to ship. That creates a problem though, because I doubt they wanted to invest limited cash reserves on product, just for it to be included in massive sales of in stock items. So they ran 40% off sales to get some cash back on older inventory to cover new in stock inventory, but they haven’t run any sales since then.

 

[Apollo]

As others posted they did not start out running a Ponzi scheme but as of now, well if it quacks like a duck.

I still get bombarded by emails for sales and pre-orders

As for refunds, there are quite a few here, whom I am sure you know, that have been waiting for a refund for MONTHS with Anogos going “dark” after said members asked for said refunds

The Lawsuit, depending on how it goes will, either be a new beginning or the end of them

Many have accused Anovos of running a Ponzi scheme or taking people's money with no intention of delivering.

Communication has been spotty for a few years. Others have complained about slow refunds and slow delivery of in stock items for quite a while.

It sounds like they have cut back on their customer support staff which wasn't great to begin with.

Hopefully they are focusing on getting items produced and delivered. Even if they send out updated delivery estimates there is so much scepticism about the accuracy that it is pretty much a waste of effort. They need to start actually delivering more items to get some faith back.

I believe "going dark" usually means there is no sign of activity at all. They have been bad about responding to things like requests for refunds and requests for updates, but they have had some signs of still being active. The lack of updates on their Facebook site or a Labor Day sale seems strange.

 

[karmajay]

Not that requesting a refund before the deadline ever helped. I requested a refund Jan 3rd for my paid 9 orders and never received a refund.

 

[TradeCraft]

Not that requesting a refund before the deadline ever helped. I requested a refund Jan 3rd for my paid 9 orders and never received a refund.

I don’t want to share Stacy’s email without permission, but she said I could reach out to her if I decided to cancel, and had any trouble with Anovos actually returning the money.

I requested a full refund several days ago, and if I do not receive a refund in a reasonable amount of time, I plan to involve her to force Anovos to return my money. If anyone else is awaiting a refund without success or commmunication, please let me know. I’d be glad to include the names of others experiencing trouble receiving the refunds they have requested. Please provide me with your full name, and the date you first requested a refund, and I’ll include it below my email when I ask for her help.

 

[Johnnyb]

I had the same issues getting a refund and asked for Stacy’s help, after she got involved I got my refund within a day but that was a year ago (September 2018). Her email was Stacy.Barninger@disney.com.

Hope it helps.

 

[TradeCraft]

I had the same issues getting a refund and asked for Stacy’s help, after she got involved I got my refund within a day but that was a year ago (September 2018). Her email was Stacy.Barninger@disney.com.

Hope it helps.

I had said I would not share her contact, but I have seen her email posted publicly before. That should help those still being dragged along. Thanks,

 

[darthjones]

Just sent this to Stacy. I don’t need commentary really. Just fyi:

Hi, Stacy -

You must be bombarded so I will only email you once unless you reply.

I am about to miss a FOURTH Halloween with the Anovos Kylo Ren costume yet to arrive.

Might you please mandate that they send biweekly updates? I gave them $3k in March of 2016 and have only an update, months ago, that they are testing new cloth to start over. The kids here have lost their interest, one is 16 now instead of 12, and I have spent another $500 on stuff that was supposed to go with this dang thing.

Can Disney just take over Anovos, fund the rest of the projects, and pull their license?

All I get is silence and it is awful. I used to work at LFL, in costumes no less, and live for a time of year that has just died for me because Anovos has my budget and I do not have the time to assemble anything new.

It is awful.

I have never had such a bad experience with any Disney product until now.

Worst of all, everyone at Anovos is acting extremely delusional and takes every opportunity to state how out of line their customers are by being upset.


Thank you in advance for a quick and 100% favorable solution on the customer end of this.


(signed)

 

[GF]

No, I really don't expect a modern OT TK to be an exact copy of the original vacuformed props, including all the bumps, flaws, and blotchy paint of the Original Trilogy. I completely welcome a modern version of what the originals TK Helmets looked like, for example the ROGUE ONE TK. Anovos had full access to the ROGUE ONE TK Helmets, so all the work was already done, and it's Star Wars canon. Sure if you want a modern smooth version, but more faithful to the OT helmets, then scan the RO TK and just remove the cut out vents from the 3D Scanned Model, and you're done... A modern version of the OT TK, with decals for the OT vents! However, they did more than just smooth the surface, reduce the one under eye bulge, and make it symmetrical. And as far as paint colors, that is also the advantage of having access to the original props. Thanks to Glyn Dillon, even mere mortals like us know the exact Montana Gold Tan, as well as the other paint colors used for the actual film props. They don't need to send a valuable screen used asset to China, just a $8 can of paint for color matching. I've working in photo studios for 10 years, so I understand color matching actual products to the exact CYMK color you see in printed catalogs. You just can simply take a photo of the prop with a Color Check Chart in the photo at the same focal plane, with the same lighting, and they can color match the colors in the photo in China.

And I wasn't saying all hardgoods are the same or all softgoods are the same, nor do they all get made in the same respective hard/soft factory. I know there have been 3-4 different factories in China that have attempted the Kylo outfit based on the extensive update blog. In addition to that, they have at least one soft goods factory in the USA, and I was told at least one in particular is in the LA area. I also assume there are more than one hardgoods factory. As a photograpgher, I have been around enough fashion shows, designers, and industry professionals to understand how labor intensive and unforgiving softgoods can be. We are seeing that from Anovos. I think the new softgoods that have been successful for Anovos have been made using very forgiving materials, like the cotton gauze like bandage material of the Rey costumes. But, when they try something that needs true precision and detail, their current factories have fallen short, even Stateside. Gloves are tricky to begin with, and the Jyn Gloves were far from a success. The Kylo costume is a beast, as Anovos has now learned. Treating the fabric, and at what stage of production, as well as the blade pleating of the sleeves are very precice work. Even the fibre content and material of the costume, without it looking and feeling like it's made of couch upholstery, is no easy feat.

But if you look at "lower priority" items, like the imperial officer's hat, it isn't that hard at all. Yes, you need a multi needle Machine for a single pass or a single needle JUKI with a jig to get even stitch spacing on the bill, but the rest is pretty normal hat construction. Disney already has a supplier with the needed sewing machines, because they already sell cheaper Officer's hats in simple black cotton at Disney World. Or, Anovos can go to a Chinese manufacturer already making WWII German M43 Reproduction hats, and it would be a "relatively" easy job for them. The fact that they have said for over two years that the Imperial Officer's Hat delay is due to their vigilant and exacting requirements to match the exact screen used color, is downright insulting for a hat that's simply BLACK. Anovos can't make a Shoretrooper helmet that is a random shade of Tan picked from a Behr Paint Book and then delay a BLACK hat for over 2 years it's supposedly because they are having a hard time matching the color.

The truth is, they obviously don't have the funds to complete everything simultaneously. They are basically admitting to this by saying the oldest, "and coincidentally most expensive" preorders take priority. They would rather refund a cheap black hat than any expensive Kylo Costumes. I'm not being rude, I'm just well informed and very observant.

Well said! their OT TK costume is very inaccurate, helmet completely off, not sure were they got the ears from but they look completely scratchbuilt and not sure what happened to the eye and frown section, no way it was molded from a real movie suit, from what I undersatnd it was 3d scan and during process alot of the shapes/details were affected.

 

[TradeCraft]

Well said! their OT TK costume is very inaccurate, helmet completely off, not sure were they got the ears from but they look completely scratchbuilt and not sure what happened to the eye and frown section, no way it was molded from a real movie suit, from what I undersatnd it was 3d scan and during process alot of the shapes/details were affected.

Yes, I agree. I just don’t want people to think I’m unaware of the creative process and liberties needed to update and modernize a 40 year old prop. My job consists of quickly and accurately solving problems. I think using a screen used R1 TK Helmet as a starting point is a great idea. Scan it for a R1 TK, and remove the vent cut outs from the 3D scam for an updated OT TK. Done!

I was told on my phone call that they already have a R1 TK prototype at Anovos. However, if they started from their current OT TK Helmet, and just added their own vent cut outs to the 3D file, it’s way too far off from the screen used props in my opinion. I don’t mind paying for accuracy, but I’m not impressed by the current Anovos OT TK.

 

[Dontdissthefett]

Regarding the Anovos TK, I think people are confusing the difference between a costume and a prop. It’s not meant to be a reproduction of the prop, it’s meant to be a cleaned-up, wearable costume piece marketed to the mass-public that doesn’t want all the warts and imperfections in the originals. As much as some folks complain it’s too far off from the movie suits, they’d complain even more if Anovos would have used the R1 helmet as a base since the R1 TK helmet is symmetrical, and the Anovos and the originals are not. Just further testament that you can’t please everyone, and if their TK doesn’t satisfy one then another maker’s hopefully will.

 

[Pepperbone]

Regarding the Anovos TK, I think people are confusing the difference between a costume and a prop. It’s not meant to be a reproduction of the prop, it’s meant to be a cleaned-up, wearable costume piece marketed to the mass-public that doesn’t want all the warts and imperfections in the originals. As much as some folks complain it’s too far off from the movie suits, they’d complain even more if Anovos would have used the R1 helmet as a base since the R1 TK helmet is symmetrical, and the Anovos and the originals are not. Just further testament that you can’t please everyone, and if their TK doesn’t satisfy one then another maker’s hopefully will.

I've met a few people who complained about details and accuracy, such as the asymmetry of the OT helmets. Except for one individual, the rest didn't own any helmets. They just enjoy complaining for a living.

 

[TradeCraft]

I've met a few people who complained about details and accuracy, such as the asymmetry of the OT helmets. Except for one individual, the rest didn't own any helmets. They just enjoy complaining for a living.

In the making of Rogue One extra features, they said they didn’t completely fix the one droopy eye, or make it completely symmetrical, as they wanted to stay true to the originals. As others have previously said, Anovos made their own stylistic changes that do not represent any Stormtrooper in any movie. So regardless of them using the lower eyelid of the OT TK vs the R1 TK is irrelevant. Some of the various parts look completely different. I suspect it is because the scanned the exterior of an already vacuum formed product in stead of scanning the buck it was molded from. I have a very expensive Anovos Shoretrooper Helmet, and I collect various real world helmets ranging from Aircraft to Search & Rescue.

I didn’t say they shouldn’t be at all faithful to the original, but I said that if they intended to go for a cleaned up version that is still respected as being screen accurate, the R1 TK was an obvious option, with no extra work need than deleting ventsif they wanted a more accurate representation of the OT TK. They can even add the asymmetrical under eye bulge, easier than starting from scratch. I say this because Anovos isn’t infallible when it comes to design, as is shown by the jyn gloves, and some other items. I’d rather they start with a scan that needs less artist’s creative expression, so it doesn’t end up looking like a completely unique piece that doesn’t accurately portray what is seen in any movie.