ANOVOS issues (ANOVOS ONLY discussion)

[TradeCraft]

Sort of a question - how can you cancel your orders since they stopped giving out refunds of any kind? Perhaps you just want to be on record as having cancelled all of your remaining orders which makes sense. Or have your credit card companies notified, etc. But lots of folks are trying to cancel and nothing happens of course.

My order was placed years ago, before they changed to a no refunds policy. We discussed minimum order requirements and not meeting order quotas, customers canceling orders, etc. I’ll write a detailed post about that today. Im sure it was a result of our phone call that they changed to a no refund policy a week later.

The no refund policy was for new orders, so it doesn’t apply to me. Additionally, I paid with an Amex, and even after so much time, I’m not worried about getting a refund.

If I don’t get a refund from Anovos directly and willingly, I’ll go straight back to Stacy. I have talked to Stacy on the phone 3-4 times, well over an hour. Last time we spoke, she was leaving for Star Wars celebration as I was leaving to go out of the country. She said she would talk to Anovos’ CEO and I would receive a call immediately. She said in an earlier call that I would have no issue getting a refund if I decided to go that route. If they wouldn’t issue a refund, she said to call her and she would step in to make sure it was refunded. I’m actually hoping Charlie doesn’t respond, because I will call or email her to step in. She said she ripped them a new one about the gloves and lack of communication. Stacy asked for the glove photos so she could have a meeting with Anovos. That’s why I created the RPF post to share the same information that was given to Stacy to show Anovos.

 

[darthjones]

Thanks for your efforts and the good reporting!!! Truly truly

 

[Pepperbone]

I wish I had a recording of that call. My wife was there listening and the look on her face half the time was priceless. I have met some very interesting and amazing people in my life, and I’ve never had anyone start a conversation by scolding me about their business phone number or email staying private. I told Charlie I’ve photographed Fashion Week runway shows across Europe, and met designers, models, photographers and celebrities. I have emails for some pretty impressive people, so he doesn’t need to talk to me like a child to keep his new disposable Google Voice number from getting out. Then when we had to have the same discussion about not giving out an email, I was more than just a little irritated!

Recording the call would have been epic. Sharing the call however could have potentially caused more problems - which no one needs right now.

I have to say though, that tone is synonymous with certain industry people in this town (Los Angeles).
I work in the entertainment biz, with the nicest, most generous, most creative people you'll ever meet. But on occasion you'll meet the Charlie type. Often from marketing or sales departments (no offense to those working in marketing or sales - you've probably met them too). And when you do; it's unforgettable.

Reading through your initial post from today made me smile, because I had to deal with this particular type last week. They're always easy to disarm when they're in front you, and are always willing to "get with the program" when others are watching. But on the phone it's a whole different ball game.

Anyway, thanks again for looping us in.

 

[TradeCraft]

Recording the call would have been epic. Sharing the call however could have potentially caused more problems - which no one needs right now.

I have to say though, that tone is synonymous with certain industry people in this town (Los Angeles).
I work in the entertainment biz, with the nicest, most generous, most creative people you'll ever meet. But on occasion you'll meet the Charlie type. Often from marketing or sales departments (no offense to those working in marketing or sales - you've probably met them too). And when you do; it's unforgettable.

Reading through your initial post from today made me smile, because I had to deal with this particular type last week. They're always easy to disarm when they're in front you, and are always willing to "get with the program" when others are watching. But on the phone it's a whole different ball game.

Anyway, thanks again for looping us in.

Yes, I understand exactly what you mean. I have had a big impact on other companies in the past couple years, so I know the voice of a single person, particularly me, can be quite powerful. I'm not saying everyone should cancel their orders, because I fought with that descision for a long time, but I realized that's what I had to do. If you think it's hard to get a refund now, wait until you recieve your costume and it looks like the gloves. They boast about every time they get initial samples and how proud they are that they live up to the strict quality of Anovos. I thought the Jyn gloves were particularly bad, and figured they didn't know. But they were well aware, and don't care. They describe them as being okay because they aren't for use as real work gloves, and just a costume piece, but I don't expect to get better gloves at H&M for 1/5 the price.

 

[mikidymac]

Sort of a question - how can you cancel your orders since they stopped giving out refunds of any kind? Perhaps you just want to be on record as having cancelled all of your remaining orders which makes sense. Or have your credit card companies notified, etc. But lots of folks are trying to cancel and nothing happens of course.

You can still cancel your orders if they were placed before the New No Refund Policy. It was only new orders placed after that poly went into effect that are no refund.

 

[Kal Argos]

I didn’t call Stacy back afterwards, so no apology. Stacy has high hopes they will pull everything together, but this shows a lot in my opinion. We discussed a lot of other things, also. I initially let some comments slide because my wife still wanted her Jyn costume and I’ve heard of Anovos canceling orders for people complaining on Instagram. That’s why Anovos turned off public comments on Instagram!

Charlie hand picked a new pair of Jyn gloves and sent them ASAP (as in, a couple weeks later). The second pair are nearly identical to the first like in my detailed review. Still have silver paint marks all over. Also, the cheap cracking leather looks like poorly tanned goat scrotum. Hearing Stacy and Charlie defend the gloves quality worried me about what the rest of the costume will look like. I’m a photographer, so I’m picky about quality, but these are really badly made. I was happy others have agreed after I created my Gloves review post. Gloves from H&M, Forever21, and Old Navy look miles ahead of the Anovos Jyn gloves. They look like an early prototype from someone who doesn’t understand how to make gloves.

Yes, Charlie is still at Anovos. In Fact, he just sent me another email last week, which is what prompted me to share my story with the RPF and also cancel all my pending Anovos orders last night. I’ll have to wait for now to share what that email was about.

Thanks again for sharing. I am sorry you had to put up with that. It would be very disappointing to find out that no discussion about the rude behavior was held between Charlie and his boss... completely unprofessional.

Will be interested to hear the rest of the saga. I hope everything works out. Are you just going to except the new gloves or discuss them again? For the money they asked and their claim of quality, id be disappointed too.

Thanks for posting that review by the way, i was thinking about getting those for my wife and getting xwing gloves.. and well you saved me some grief so thanks... maybe the xwing gloves are better... but didn't want to risk it.

 

[TradeCraft]

MY ANOVOS CASHFLOW CONCERNS:

Something else we discussed on the phone has me seriously worried about their cashflow situation. I was worried then, and with the lawsuit, I don't know if they can pull through. Quality issues aside, it is a main reason I decided to cancel all my orders. When I talked on the phone, they had been running back to back 40% off sales of in stock items the month before. They even extended some of the sales past the weekend to get more orders. I told him I ordered a few "in stock" items to see if they were just as slow shipping what they have in stock. I let him know my order of "in stock" items had not shipped for a month, and I had to email Stacy to get them to ship it as a priority. He said there was only him and one other person shipping everything for Anovos. He is obviously not a low level shipping employee, so that is a red flag to me. I reminded him that if they run continuous 40% off sales, it will obviously increase sales volume, so they need to make sure they hire more people to ship. To me, that is pretty simple cause and effect. He said they couldn't hire more people to ship, which from the tone I felt he meant they couldn't afford to hire anyone else. Since he was talking to me late on a Saturday evening, while also supposedly working on the first delay update in 8 months, and supposedly helping just one other person ship orders in his spare time, that still worries me. It then took him weeks to ship a replacement pair of Jyn gloves which he realized was a priority from Stacy.

Additionally, they had been sending repeated emails several days in a row, asking if anyone wanted to pay for the preorder spots of those that were canceling their orders. It reeked to me of desperation. People are all saying they are being told by Anovos that after 6-9 months, refunds are still "processing". Some have said online that Anovos customer service says they wish they could help, but the "finance department" hasn't cleared/granted the refund. Sounds like there isn't any money to give back. I think that's why they changed to an absolutely no refunds policy and trying to get whatever they can for anything they have in stock. What they do sell, it seams they can barely get it shipped with their current staff.

On the phone, we discussed the cancelation of the Jyn Concho, which my wife was really disappointed in. Charlie said they didn't meet the minimum order quota from the factory, which I'm pretty sure he said was 250 units. We purchased it at the preorder price of $120, and he told me the factory cost per unit was $45-$60 per unit I think. I don't remember if he specifically told me the price per unit, or said they didn't meet the minimum and couldn't pay the up front dollar amount and I did the math on 250 units. If I remember correctly, I think he said they didn't have enough interest or orders to meet the 250 unit minimum, and then people started to cancel, and they couldn't spend "$15,000" for that run. I think that is how I came up with the $60 per unit cost. I am very detail oriented, so I am almost positive that is the correct math, but don't hold me to it. Honestly, if that is correct, Anovos is operating at 50% COG (cost of goods), before labor, shipping, overhead, LICENSING, plus 3-4% Credit Card processing fees, etc. I know Lucasfilm licensing alone is an enormous amount. Any time a problem comes up, they must be losing money, so I think they are running huge sales on in stock items and offering new pre orders just to fund older endeavors.

I finally realized it was just too much, so I formally requested a full refund last night.

 

[TradeCraft]

Thanks again for sharing. I am sorry you had to put up with that. It would be very disappointing to find out that no discussion about the rude behavior was held between Charlie and his boss... completely unprofessional.

Will be interested to hear the rest of the saga. I hope everything works out. Are you just going to except the new gloves or discuss them again? For the money they asked and their claim of quality, id be disappointed too.

Thanks for posting that review by the way, i was thinking about getting those for my wife and getting xwing gloves.. and well you saved me some grief so thanks... maybe the xwing gloves are better... but didn't want to risk it.

Yes, I received replacement Jyn gloves about 6 months ago, following that phone call. Charlie hand picked the best pair, but they were basically the same quality. He just found a pair that were both made with the same color stitching, and had less silver paint marks on them. But they were pretty bad looking. I was going to send both pairs to Stacy, but I don't think she would have been too surprised. Apparently Lucasfilm/Disney has seen (either photos, or in person) every Anovos product for approval before they are allowed to ship them. I'm surprised they approved the Gloves, so I figure they are issuing approval based on photos, and not in person meetings. Stacy said she is in constant contact and meetings with Anovos, but I think it is probably over the phone.

Charlie said some items or samples have come in and Disney wouldn't approve them, so they have to go back to the factory. That may be some of the delays. Not sure if that means Anovos would have sent the Kylo costume and Disney wouldn't approve the fabric issues, or if Anovos made the call to scrap them. We honestly didn't discuss the Kylo items, as the Kylo update didn't come out until the week later. I wasn't familiar with the Kylo problems until the long Kylo update post. It's funny, because I'm pretty sure all the updates and no refund policy had at least something to do with my actions and conversations.

 

[Pepperbone]

I finally realized it was just too much, so I formally requested a full refund last night.

Wise decision.

 

[Apollo]

Nothing new Anogos will never pull out of this it is only a matter of time before they pull the plug

 

[ggriffaw]

Nothing new Anogos will never pull out of this it is only a matter of time before they pull the plug

Except they are shipping some items now. Why would they still be filling any orders if they are about to go out of business? Anovos has had many significant issues. I don't agree that it was all just a big scam built up over several years, producing and delivering quite a few products, just to screw people over years later.

The communication is spotty and often not what we want, but they have not gone dark like many others have.

 

[Kal Argos]

Except they are shipping some items now. Why would they still be filling any orders if they are about to go out of business? Anovos has had many significant issues. I don't agree that it was all just a big scam built up over several years, producing and delivering quite a few products, just to screw people over years later.

The communication is spotty and often not what we want, but they have not gone dark like many others have.

True, but...

They are effectively in quicksand. This is base on recent posts in this thread, the lawsuit, and inability to steadily release product, and to some extent send out in-stock items in a decent timeframe. By there own admission, they're staff is extremely small and shrinking.... so...

I dont think they started out to scam... they really wanted to be a great company... but it appears they really mismanaged cmos, and clearly CS... so unless they really turn it around with hitting deliverying in Q4, a vote of no confidence will happen by consumers... i really hope they can pull it off but im not seeing good signs with a Q4 approaching right around the corner.

EDIT: to clarify, I am not saying they are scamming... but that is a term that has been used here to summarize they're behavior. I my opinion is that they have managed there business poorly and upset a lot of people.

 

[JOATRASH FX]

I agree that what happens in Q4 will be very important. I'm waiting on 3 items due before the end of the year, all jackets, and what happens with them will ultimately decide if I get off the boat or not.

There is still see a glimmer of hope since they're actually shipping some hard goods at the moment, and probably sell a bit through the Galaxy Edge thing... so as long as the law suit doesn't damage them too much and they manage not to screw anything else up, then maybe...

(To be clear: I'm not being naive to their chances and the risks; it's just that there's so much damn pessimism everywhere at the moment that I am choosing to at least try to stay positive when it comes to my hobby.)

 

[Apollo]

No one said it was a scam.

All the warning signs are there they have been refrerenced over and over on this thread.

They have indeed gone dark on the many here who have requested refunds

Except they are shipping some items now. Why would they still be filling any orders if they are about to go out of business? Anovos has had many significant issues. I don't agree that it was all just a big scam built up over several years, producing and delivering quite a few products, just to screw people over years later.

The communication is spotty and often not what we want, but they have not gone dark like many others have.

 

[TradeCraft]

I agree that what happens in Q4 will be very important. I'm waiting on 3 items due before the end of the year, all jackets, and what happens with them will ultimately decide if I get off the boat or not.

There is still see a glimmer of hope since they're actually shipping some hard goods at the moment, and probably sell a bit through the Galaxy Edge thing... so as long as the law suit doesn't damage them too much and they manage not to screw anything else up, then maybe...

(To be clear: I'm not being naive to their chances and the risks; it's just that there's so much damn pessimism everywhere at the moment that I am choosing to at least try to stay positive when it comes to my hobby.)

I'm normally a very optimistic person, so I try not to be pessimistic, but that doesn't blind me from being a realist. I have left my money with Anovos for a very long time, but I'm tired of feeling like a victim everytime the name Anovos comes up, and the boast about how proud they are with new products. The more people that leave the funds 4+ year old orders with Anovos, and the more people that place new orders, it just says we are okay with what they are doing. I had been of the mindset to leave the money on the slim chance I would eventually receive what I ordered. However, after seeing the quality I can expect from Anovos Softgoods, I will likely be disappointed when it arrives, if they ever send it. Everything I'm waiting on are softgoods, so that made the decision to cancel easier for me.

I will point out that people are hopeful that "Softgoods" will finally ship based on the fact that some "Hardgoods" are actually arriving. Do remember that those are two entirely different beasts, and come from completely different factories! I think it is fair to say that Anovos has looked down one of more factories capable of producing mostly decent helmets, but they continually fail at producing much of anything of quality that involves fabric, cutting templates, stitching, thread choice, etc. One of the rare few softgood items to ship in recent times were the Jyn gloves, and I had to write a review to give an idea of just how comically bad they were made. Hardgoods have not been perfect, but are much more forgiving, but the Anovos helmets are still not perfect. For having acess to the original props, the shape of the ANHTK helmets are off, and the color of the Shoretrooper helmets are way off. We have to repaint a $550 Anovos Shoretrooper helmet just for 501st approval.

 

[ggriffaw]

No one said it was a scam.

All the warning signs are there they have been refrerenced over and over on this thread.

They have indeed gone dark on the many here who have requested refunds

Many have accused Anovos of running a Ponzi scheme or taking people's money with no intention of delivering.

Communication has been spotty for a few years. Others have complained about slow refunds and slow delivery of in stock items for quite a while.

It sounds like they have cut back on their customer support staff which wasn't great to begin with.

Hopefully they are focusing on getting items produced and delivered. Even if they send out updated delivery estimates there is so much scepticism about the accuracy that it is pretty much a waste of effort. They need to start actually delivering more items to get some faith back.

I believe "going dark" usually means there is no sign of activity at all. They have been bad about responding to things like requests for refunds and requests for updates, but they have had some signs of still being active. The lack of updates on their Facebook site or a Labor Day sale seems strange.

 

[mikidymac]

Except they are shipping some items now. Why would they still be filling any orders if they are about to go out of business? Anovos has had many significant issues. I don't agree that it was all just a big scam built up over several years, producing and delivering quite a few products, just to screw people over years later.

The communication is spotty and often not what we want, but they have not gone dark like many others have.

What items have you seen them actually shipping?
I haven't seen anything pre-ordered or in-stock shipped in months. The Galaxy Edge helmets do not apply since as Anovos stated they are a separate supply chain.

 

[tubachris85x]

I never felt that Anovos was a scam

I've always felt that once they got the star wars license, it was one of those things that began with good intentions overall, but a perfect storm of factors brought them to where we are now. Of course I don't have the same insight or business experience, but the fact that they had to effectively take pre-orders to raise funds in order to actually get products made was a big mistake. This is often difficult even private vendors to maintain a clean record. Not impossible, but just not ideal sometimes, but Anovos did this on a much grander scale.

Throw in Disney's involvement. I have no doubt interference from the Mouse contributed heavily into this. I'm positive tie-ups and red tape were inherent to getting products approved for production, but I have to believe Disney pressured them into completing OTHER projects first in order to capitalize on the film's release dates, notably with Rogue One and Force Awakens. If they had to basically fund-raise money for projects at the start, where do you think they got all the money to do those R1 and TFA items? From the very early pre-orders- It had to be the source of that income.

This cycle just repeated and delay after delay. I think it just snowballed into a greater problem than they actually anticipated. And now the issues with the manufacture? It's all compounded into a huge PR mess.

I'm not one of these people that sits here bashing Anovos like a lot of friends/colleagues do. Hell, they're making anti-Anovos merch now.

I do not feel it's right to do that. Sure, criticize them, but be reasonable about it. I have no doubt some of the employees get the impression of being enemy #1 right now, and I have no doubt that influences how they interact with customers who are asking for refunds or calling about other issues, delays, etc. I myself am still awaiting for them to fix issues, but I don't think folks shouting them down or even approaching them at Cons is going to get you anywhere productive.

Just my thoughts on everything. Unlike the days of Master Replicas, this is what we have to deal with. I'm all about people changing their ways and being able to redeem themselves, and I'd very much like to see Anovos do that in time. I would hope they do at least, because I don't think we're going to see another company putting out higher-end replicas for sometime if Anovos were to go under for good.

 

[ggriffaw]

I will point out that people are hopeful that "Softgoods" will finally ship based on the fact that some "Hardgoods" are actually arriving. Do remember that those are two entirely different beasts, and come from completely different factories! I think it is fair to say that Anovos has looked down one of more factories capable of producing mostly decent helmets, but they continually fail at producing much of anything of quality that involves fabric, cutting templates, stitching, thread choice, etc. One of the rare few softgood items to ship in recent times were the Jyn gloves, and I had to write a review to give an idea of just how comically bad they were made. Hardgoods have not been perfect, but are much more forgiving, but the Anovos helmets are still not perfect. For having acess to the original props, the shape of the ANHTK helmets are off, and the color of the Shoretrooper helmets are way off. We have to repaint a $550 Anovos Shoretrooper helmet just for 501st approval.

I think it is much more complex than simply softgoods vs hardgoods as far as determining which factory produces an item. I doubt the leather gloves are made at the same place as Han's shirt or vacuformed helmets made at the same place as fiberglass helmets. Obviously the schedules of the factories may prevent one from producing a particular item even though they have the ability to produce the product.

The OT TK design was an intentional clean up of what the originals looked like. They kept some of the wonkiness and removed some. Anyone that wants warts and all should order from another vendor.

I don't understand why they didn't get the color of the Shoretrooper helmet right. I agree it isn't correct. They should have had very good reference to go by to get it exactly right. When they announced Shoretrooper armor, I asked if an unpainted helmet would be available so the customer could paint both with the same color. They said no. Another reason for an unpainted helmet is to allow whatever weathering the customer wants to add. I know we could do all of that with the helmet they made, but many of us don't want to pay for the finished helmet and repaint it. I know some have done that.

 

[Kal Argos]

Many have accused Anovos of running a Ponzi scheme or taking people's money with no intention of delivering.

Communication has been spotty for a few years. Others have complained about slow refunds and slow delivery of in stock items for quite a while.

It sounds like they have cut back on their customer support staff which wasn't great to begin with.

Hopefully they are focusing on getting items produced and delivered. Even if they send out updated delivery estimates there is so much scepticism about the accuracy that it is pretty much a waste of effort. They need to start actually delivering more items to get some faith back.

I believe "going dark" usually means there is no sign of activity at all. They have been bad about responding to things like requests for refunds and requests for updates, but they have had some signs of still being active. The lack of updates on their Facebook site or a Labor Day sale seems strange.

You're right, ive seen that too... I think most have used that term "ponzi scheme" loosely... in a guess that Anovos used new pre-orders to help fund older projects... or refunds, etc. Which is part of a ponzi scheme... plus its a term in the pop culture that is catch all sorta for being a questionable business... but i agree we should do better with our tone and language sometimes.

Exactly, when they actually deliver on a release in a consistent way, yep, we'll all be happy... but a flag already is that they're already moving Q4 items to Q1 2020... trek hat, FO armor...

Communication has been very spotty for some from the start...mine was all good til like Jan 2019, but then others since 2016 was bad... communication in general has been bad or spotty. But since May the live chat i dont think has been on much and after the lawsuit i haven't seen it... tho i haven't visited except a couple times so not much of a sampling.