Animated Film Treatments and who to give them to
- Thread starter dedelvas
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Getting a Film Treatment looked at
Sorry if this is duplicated, I did not see it when I posted it a few minutes ago.
Hey everyone, Im Elvis and I am new to the forum. I am a writer from Los Angeles. I just finished my first Treatment for an animated movie. I have it registered with the WGA and now I would like to get it into the hands of the right people. Any suggestions? Thanx everyone!
Sorry if this is duplicated, I did not see it when I posted it a few minutes ago.
Hey everyone, Im Elvis and I am new to the forum. I am a writer from Los Angeles. I just finished my first Treatment for an animated movie. I have it registered with the WGA and now I would like to get it into the hands of the right people. Any suggestions? Thanx everyone!
Re: Getting a Film Treatment looked at
Many studios won't look at unsolicited work. Especially animation powerhouses like Disney and Pixar. I have a friend who is a director at Disney and he said they only look internal for ideas. But getting an agent to shop the treatment around could help. They have connections and a recognizable name that could get a foot in the right doors.
Many studios won't look at unsolicited work. Especially animation powerhouses like Disney and Pixar. I have a friend who is a director at Disney and he said they only look internal for ideas. But getting an agent to shop the treatment around could help. They have connections and a recognizable name that could get a foot in the right doors.
Lflank
Well-Known Member
Re: Getting a Film Treatment looked at
As someone who has worked in the book publishing business for almost 30 years (both as a writer and as a publisher), I can perhaps offer some advice to anyone thinking of going into the book-writing or script-writing business. (The book business and the movie-script business are very similar--indeed many scripts are just adaptations from books). Years ago, when I first got started, it was do-able for a beginner to write a book or movie script and then submit it themselves to publishers and producers (these unsolicited manuscripts were referred to as "over the transom"). But today, that is nearly impossible. To be blunt, nearly all the over-the-transom submissions that companies get are worthless junk and go straight to the trash, and companies have decided that it's not worth the expense of paying a legion of readers to wade through all that junk (called "the slush pile") to find the few gold nuggets within. So today most publishers and production companies no longer accept unsolicited manuscripts or scripts, and will ONLY accept and look at projects that are submitted to them by recognized literary or script agents. So if you want any chance of actually getting a book published or a script produced, you MUST find a literary agent to represent you. You can find literary and script agents listed in "Writers Digest" or "Writers Market" (most libraries have current editions of those), and there are probably compilations of literary agents on the Net too.
But please go into this with your eyes wide open. The odds are enormously against you. For every script that is actually produced, there are thousands more that never see the light of day. In Hollywood, every waiter and parking valet has a script that they're shopping to producers, and agents are flooded with far more scripts than they can actually use. And please also remember that even if a script gets accepted for production, it will nearly always be edited and re-written so much that it ends up being almost unrecognizable to the person who originally wrote it.
Writing, whether books or scripts, is not a business for the faint of heart. It is a game where you will lose a thousand times for every time you win. So learn to deal with rejection--you'll get a lot of it. I used to wallpaper my room with all the rejection slips from publishers. The trick is to forget all the losses and only remember the wins.
I do sincerely wish anyone who tries it, though, the very best of luck. It's a dream that many have but few actually try--and to me, the saddest dreams of all are the ones that die on the vine. If you don't try to live your dream in this life, you won't get a second chance.
As someone who has worked in the book publishing business for almost 30 years (both as a writer and as a publisher), I can perhaps offer some advice to anyone thinking of going into the book-writing or script-writing business. (The book business and the movie-script business are very similar--indeed many scripts are just adaptations from books). Years ago, when I first got started, it was do-able for a beginner to write a book or movie script and then submit it themselves to publishers and producers (these unsolicited manuscripts were referred to as "over the transom"). But today, that is nearly impossible. To be blunt, nearly all the over-the-transom submissions that companies get are worthless junk and go straight to the trash, and companies have decided that it's not worth the expense of paying a legion of readers to wade through all that junk (called "the slush pile") to find the few gold nuggets within. So today most publishers and production companies no longer accept unsolicited manuscripts or scripts, and will ONLY accept and look at projects that are submitted to them by recognized literary or script agents. So if you want any chance of actually getting a book published or a script produced, you MUST find a literary agent to represent you. You can find literary and script agents listed in "Writers Digest" or "Writers Market" (most libraries have current editions of those), and there are probably compilations of literary agents on the Net too.
But please go into this with your eyes wide open. The odds are enormously against you. For every script that is actually produced, there are thousands more that never see the light of day. In Hollywood, every waiter and parking valet has a script that they're shopping to producers, and agents are flooded with far more scripts than they can actually use. And please also remember that even if a script gets accepted for production, it will nearly always be edited and re-written so much that it ends up being almost unrecognizable to the person who originally wrote it.
Writing, whether books or scripts, is not a business for the faint of heart. It is a game where you will lose a thousand times for every time you win. So learn to deal with rejection--you'll get a lot of it. I used to wallpaper my room with all the rejection slips from publishers. The trick is to forget all the losses and only remember the wins.
I do sincerely wish anyone who tries it, though, the very best of luck. It's a dream that many have but few actually try--and to me, the saddest dreams of all are the ones that die on the vine. If you don't try to live your dream in this life, you won't get a second chance.
Re: Getting a Film Treatment looked at
I don't mean to pluck a bad note here Elvis but in my 19 years I have never seen a "spec" animated script sell. Most are as stated before books or are just thoughts brought on by Katzenberg like Prince of Egypt or Ants or Jerry Sienfield walks in and says "B-Movie" and Speilberg says "We're making that!". I worked at Disney before I moved to Dreamworks then back to Disney and now at Sony and never ever ever have the powers that be took a chance on something Animated. Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio used to pitch stuff all the time and they never set anything up if it required ink and paint. Now, the good news is - Computers seem to be tilting things a little - if you can make a 10 to 15 min version of your movie - like a demo - for people to see - you may get the Weinsteins to buy it (like they did with Escape from Earth) but, it costs money to make these demos - but it is a way in that wasn't there just 6 years ago.
And just to help you get on with your dream - I've written 11 scripts in my career as Spec and I sold every one of them - but I always listened to those who were teaching me. People will warn you of the rejection - and yes, it can be there but there's a way around that too.
I don't mean to pluck a bad note here Elvis but in my 19 years I have never seen a "spec" animated script sell. Most are as stated before books or are just thoughts brought on by Katzenberg like Prince of Egypt or Ants or Jerry Sienfield walks in and says "B-Movie" and Speilberg says "We're making that!". I worked at Disney before I moved to Dreamworks then back to Disney and now at Sony and never ever ever have the powers that be took a chance on something Animated. Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio used to pitch stuff all the time and they never set anything up if it required ink and paint. Now, the good news is - Computers seem to be tilting things a little - if you can make a 10 to 15 min version of your movie - like a demo - for people to see - you may get the Weinsteins to buy it (like they did with Escape from Earth) but, it costs money to make these demos - but it is a way in that wasn't there just 6 years ago.
And just to help you get on with your dream - I've written 11 scripts in my career as Spec and I sold every one of them - but I always listened to those who were teaching me. People will warn you of the rejection - and yes, it can be there but there's a way around that too.
Lflank
Well-Known Member
Re: Getting a Film Treatment looked at
I'm just curious here--how many of those scripts actually got produced? One big difference between book publishing and movie production is that once a publisher buys a book manuscript, it's a virtual certainty (barring anything strange happening) that the book will be published (though the average published book sells less than a thousand copies in its entire lifetime). In movie-making, on the other hand, it's routine for purchased scripts to fall into Development Hell and never see the inside of a movie theater, and some scripts get optioned seven or eight times and never actually get filmed.
I'm just curious here--how many of those scripts actually got produced? One big difference between book publishing and movie production is that once a publisher buys a book manuscript, it's a virtual certainty (barring anything strange happening) that the book will be published (though the average published book sells less than a thousand copies in its entire lifetime). In movie-making, on the other hand, it's routine for purchased scripts to fall into Development Hell and never see the inside of a movie theater, and some scripts get optioned seven or eight times and never actually get filmed.
Re: Getting a Film Treatment looked at
When I was at Disney, once a year we could pitch an idea internally. It could be original or based off a book. If they liked the idea, you got paid a healthy sum, and Disney took the ball from there. Most ideas happened this way.
I would listen to any advice Jet might offer as he has successfully sold script before. Maybe pm him and discuss privately.
When I was at Disney, once a year we could pitch an idea internally. It could be original or based off a book. If they liked the idea, you got paid a healthy sum, and Disney took the ball from there. Most ideas happened this way.
I would listen to any advice Jet might offer as he has successfully sold script before. Maybe pm him and discuss privately.
Lflank
Well-Known Member
Re: Getting a Film Treatment looked at
I once got offered a job at a Hollywood FX studio because the manager saw the fan films I put up at YouTube and liked what I was able to do with a micro-budget. (I turned the offer down--I'm already quite happy doing what I do.)
As an aside, computer technology has been a godsend to book authors too. Today with print-on-demand technology, a good writer with a flair for promotion can self-publish his own books and sidestep the entire agent/publisher apparatus. And of course even a simple web page can now reach more people worldwide than a best-selling author could reach just 30 years ago.
I once got offered a job at a Hollywood FX studio because the manager saw the fan films I put up at YouTube and liked what I was able to do with a micro-budget. (I turned the offer down--I'm already quite happy doing what I do.)
As an aside, computer technology has been a godsend to book authors too. Today with print-on-demand technology, a good writer with a flair for promotion can self-publish his own books and sidestep the entire agent/publisher apparatus. And of course even a simple web page can now reach more people worldwide than a best-selling author could reach just 30 years ago.
Re: Getting a Film Treatment looked at
Apples and Oranges- My chosen career is that of a writer - it's my job to sell what I write and in doing so my quota at the WGA rises with each sale I make and sandwiched in there, each assignment I get - I am not a producer, that's someone elses job "to produce" (but just for good measure 6 of mine were produced (both tv and film - two are being prepped to be filmed - I'm hoping to get one shown in my theater next summer upon it's completion). I know guys who are super rich and have never had one thing produced - development is a slippery slope but your career as a writer usually has nothing to do with it - you should be off writing the next thing.
Apples and Oranges- My chosen career is that of a writer - it's my job to sell what I write and in doing so my quota at the WGA rises with each sale I make and sandwiched in there, each assignment I get - I am not a producer, that's someone elses job "to produce" (but just for good measure 6 of mine were produced (both tv and film - two are being prepped to be filmed - I'm hoping to get one shown in my theater next summer upon it's completion). I know guys who are super rich and have never had one thing produced - development is a slippery slope but your career as a writer usually has nothing to do with it - you should be off writing the next thing.
Lflank
Well-Known Member
Re: Getting a Film Treatment looked at
That may be true in the strictly business/financial sense, but deep down inside what every writer really wants is not simply to be PRINTED, but to be READ. I suspect that's just as true of screenwriters--what they really want, deep down inside, is for their work to be SEEN.
:cool
That may be true in the strictly business/financial sense, but deep down inside what every writer really wants is not simply to be PRINTED, but to be READ. I suspect that's just as true of screenwriters--what they really want, deep down inside, is for their work to be SEEN.
:cool
Believe me - the smart in this game learn very quickly what they can and can't control - if you don't you're basically choosing to give yourself maximum stress. All the writers i know roll with the punches and enjoy the hell out of the type of lives they can provide their families. If i found out tomorrow my two upcoming films weren't happening - i'd simply enjoy my trip to Japan that i know IS happening.
This thread is very interesting. I self published a novel a few years ago and have spent the years since working on (and mostly off) rewriting it and planning out at least one sequel.
I'm considering trying to approach a literary agent when I get a solid draft together, but I may just go the self publishing route again. I believe in my story and am very passionate about it, but I don't know how likely it is that it will ever get picked up by an agent, get published, or even sell. I guess it's more a labor of love than anything else, and should I not make it in the business, at least I can do it for me.
I'm considering trying to approach a literary agent when I get a solid draft together, but I may just go the self publishing route again. I believe in my story and am very passionate about it, but I don't know how likely it is that it will ever get picked up by an agent, get published, or even sell. I guess it's more a labor of love than anything else, and should I not make it in the business, at least I can do it for me.
Lflank
Well-Known Member
It is indeed nice to make a living at one's dream.
My first two books were published by small companies that no longer exist. My next five books were for Howell Book House, which at that time was part of the Simon and Schuster empire and has since been sold to Wiley. For the past five years I've been the owner/editor of a small publishing company, for which I've written eleven books. So far I've traveled all over the US (Florida, New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, San Diego, Seattle, LA, South Dakota, Arizona, Vegas), and to England, Norway, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Canada, and South Africa. Japan and China are next on the list.Alas though, the sad reality is that the vast majority of writers are never able to make a living at it, and can never afford to give up their day jobs.
Lflank
Well-Known Member
Print-on-demand computer technology (in which books are stored on a computer as PDF files and then printed/bound one at a time on high-resolution laser printers as they are sold) have made self-publishing a viable option for many, since you no longer have to pay upfront for a big press run. (POD technology is also being used by the big New York publishers to keep their backlist in print.) POD printers like Lightning Source are able to provide cost-effective printing for micro-publishers (you still have to set up your own company and obtain an ISBN block). And while small independent publishers still have great difficulty getting into brick-and-mortar bookstore chains, Amazon and other online booksellers provide a workable alternative. And of course Amazon's Kindle Publishing program allows anyone to submit ebooks for sale at the Kindle Store. Since the sales per title, whether print or ebook, tend to be rather low, however, it requires at least a hundred titles or so to make a viable living at it. But it is a viable possibility for small writer/publishers who both publish public-domain reprints and write their own stuff. It's what I now do, and I've been making $65-75k a year at it.
I do only non-fiction titles, though. Fiction of all sorts is very much more difficult to sell than non-fiction, no matter what route you take.
(NOTE: Print-on-demand technology is entirely different from "publish-on-demand" vanity presses like PublishAmerica where you pay to be published, which are nothing but ripoffs and should be avoided at any cost.)
Such good feedback..thanx everyone.
I enjoy very much the writing process, but I also enjoy the publishing as well. I started off writing reviews of bands here is hollywood about 7 years ago. I wrote for several of the rags around town for a few years. I then started to write short stories. I guess my main focus now is this animated script. We had an artist draw up our characters and we are looking into animating a few minutes ( Great advice Jet Beetle) of it for a demo. Anyway this is a great forum and I appreciate all the feedback!
I enjoy very much the writing process, but I also enjoy the publishing as well. I started off writing reviews of bands here is hollywood about 7 years ago. I wrote for several of the rags around town for a few years. I then started to write short stories. I guess my main focus now is this animated script. We had an artist draw up our characters and we are looking into animating a few minutes ( Great advice Jet Beetle) of it for a demo. Anyway this is a great forum and I appreciate all the feedback!
Lflank
Well-Known Member
That happens a lot anyway. Even people who submit through agents have been known to sue when something similar to their script comes up on screen later. There are only a certain number of story genres, after all, and studios usually already have a number of submissions for each one of them. Especially if a particular genre (vampire movies, zombie movies, pirate movies, whatever) is hot.
Most studios and publishers just consider that a nuisance that is unfortunately part of the game.
If I go the self publishing route again I will do like I did before and do print on demand. I learned from very early in the process that the vanity presses where you typically have a limited run of printings (and subsequently a minimum of usually 100 books printed) tend to be a rip off. For self publishing, print on demand is the best choice!
Lflank
Well-Known Member
There are three basic options available to small publishers for print-on-demand. One is Lulu.Com . The advantage to Lulu is that you don't need a publishing company of your own--Lulu does all the ISBNs and that sort of stuff, and Lulu can (if you purchase their distribution package--though I think they were changing this to include some sort of free distribution) list books for sale at Amazon. The disadvantages with Lulu are that their printing price per book is a bit higher than everyone else, and that all their books are clearly marked as published by Lulu, which severely hurts their sales (most people still view "self-published" books as crap). Lulu is good if all you want to do is print your own professional-quality books for sale yourself to friends and family. It's really not economical for distribution to the public.
A second option is CreateSpace, which is owned by Amazon. CreateSpace has a lower price-per-copy than Lulu does, and it lets you identify your books as being from your publishing company (whatever you want to call it) rather than CreateSpace. So when your book is listed on Amazon, it appears as any other publisher would (though the savvy people will know it's CreateSpace because of the ISBN number). The biggest disadvantage of CreateSpace is that it ONLY makes its books available to Amazon US, and it charges a setup fee for every title you do (that's how CreateSpace makes its money). CreateSpace's fee is less than Lulu's charge for a distribution package. CreateSpace is as good option if all you want is to have your book available on Amazon, and you don't want to set up your own publishing company.
A third option (the one I use) is a print-on-demand service called Lightning Source. Their printing cost per copy is lower than CreateSpace, and they distribute not only to Amazon US, but to all other outlets too---Amazon UK, Amazon Europe, Barnes and Noble online, Powells online, and any brick-and-mortar store that wants to order it. The big disadvantage to Lightning Source is that they do not work with individual authors--they ONLY work with publishing companies, and that means you have to set up your own publishing company, which includes all the federal and state paperwork to form a company, and you must buy a block of ISBN numbers--the initial cost for all that is $500 to $1500 depending on how many ISBN numbers you buy to start. But that disadvantage is also an advantage---with my own company and my own ISBN numbers, my titles look just like any other publishing company's titles--same quality, same listing on Amazon and other online bookstores. Financially, Lightning Source also charges a setup fee per title, and also an annual catalogue fee per title. But the much wider distribution makes up for that. For the serious publisher who wants to sell print books to the widest possible audience, Lightning Source is the best option.
And there is yet another route to go, which you can do either in addition to print books or instead of it---ebooks. Kindle (which Amazon owns) has a program called Kindle Direct Publishing which allows anyone to submit ebooks for sale at the Kindle Store. Submission is entirely free, and gets you listed just like every other listing on Kindle. You get to set your own price, and you get X percentage of every copy that sells. The big advantage for the Kindle ebook route is that it's completely free---you don't need any publishing company or ISBNs or setup fees or printing costs. The disadvantage of Amazon's direct publishing program is that it ONLY gets you on Kindle, not on other ebook platforms like Nook or Apple Books. But there are other places (such as Smashwords.Com) who can do that for you, free.
But once again, I want everyone to go into this with their eyes open. Most books that are published, even by the big New York book houses, sell next to nothing. Publishers will find that some 80% of their total sales will come from just 10% of their titles. I'm on a couple forums with other small publishers, and only about ten percent of us are actually making enough income from publishing to quit our day jobs and make a living at it. So everyone starts out with the odds against them, and most of us never make it.
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