ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies Found

[VFX Freak]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

Nice frame grabs Kurtyboy! As a camera operator who has spent many years looking through a lens at actors firing guns, that sure looks like the face of an actor who's scared of the bang. You don't get that without loads that are heavy enough to cycle a semi-auto. It takes a lot of training to fire a gun without a blink or a flinch. Harrison is just not very good at it at this point in his career. The best I've ever seen is Angelina Jolie. Two semi-autos firing at once, eyes open, no flinching, in slow-motion. It ain't easy.

 

[VFX Freak]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

It's quite possible the muzzle flashes were added later but that the gun was still firing blanks. It's notoriously hard to catch the gunshot on a frame of film with a 1/48th of a second exposure time. I've filmed an entire 30 round M-16 magazine going off and not seen one flash in dallies. I've also been lucky enough to be in sync and see every one. It's a crapshoot, no pun intended.

 

[scottjua]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

Usually.... Usually... Movie blanks are engineered to have a flash or larger than typical flash. For the effect. Most prop masters have their own loads and specialties for things.

 

[VFX Freak]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

Can't stop thinking about this and staring at the screen captures. Especially this one:

The more I look at it the more I think the muzzle flash is real. Kpax might have said this somewhere earlier, but there's no way the effects animators would have bothered (or at the time necessarily even been able) to rotoscope the flash such that it appears behind the holes of the FH. It just wouldn't be worth the time and effort for the one frame it's on the screen.

It's always possible the flash was augmented, of course, but the gun was firing something. There are blue highlights on Harrison and the parts of the Falcon that would reflect the flash, but that could be wishful thinking. It's probably just the lighting.:confused

Scottjua's post makes me wonder, could the prop guys have formulated their own blanks, or modified existing ones by adding a powder (like they use in fireworks, for instance) so they'd flash a different color than your every-day average blank used in the movies?

I'll stop for now...

 

[Treadwell]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

The muzzle flashes are definitely real. They did not animate any flashes in any of the OT movies---just laser beams. That's why there are a lot of beams without flashes. An OT animated muzzle flash would be very obvious in a still frame--they wouldn't look nearly this photographic. Think the animated lightsaber flashes. They look cartoonish, which is all that they are, cel art shot using tricks like overexposure, etc.

 

[scottjua]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

Yes this shouldn't even be a debate. They fired blanks. There's plenty of making of footage showing it as well.

For colors don't forget this film has been worked a reworked so many times and the colors have changed in almost every version.

 

[deadbolt]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

Really great points everyone! I didn't notice the blue flash in the background at the same time as the muzzle flash until it was pointed it out. I still believe this is worthy for discussion though..

But now that I think about it I wonder what it looked like in the original '77 edit? I didn't even realize until now that we might be looking at touchups made more recently from one of the many later revisions of the film.. How can we see the '77 versions again, did that version ever come out on laserdisc?

It would be awesome to find out that they actually fired blanks out of the Hero but I'm still somewhat on the fence about the flash though. When we discussed this around page fifty..something, Pat posted a behind the scenes/blooper video that showed the crew swapping out Hans blaster in ESB with the blank/pfc version. This doesn't relate completely to the ANH flash because the ANH Hero is capable of firing real blanks where as for ESB it looks like it might have been the lower powered PFC blaster used in this scene. But if you watch the Blooper video there wasn't any noticeable muzzle flash out of the ESB blaster whatsoever. And definitely not a huge blue one! :lol

The ESB blaster can be seen firing behind the scenes around 1:07
Star Wars Bloopers - Episodes IV, V, VI

But this is why I'm still not sure about the muzzle flashes. In that same scene of the actual film when you see Han fire the blaster, again it has that same huge blue muzzle flash just like the ANH Hero. And in the very next frame it's gone without a trace. Based on this the SW guys must have have some way of adding muzzle flashes to the film since the blaster in ESB had no apparent flash at all when viewing the behind the scenes/blooper version of that scene.

Darth Vader vs Han Solo:

-Carson

 

[VFX Freak]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

Here's a thought. The guys shooting the making of footage were shooting film. They had the 1/48th of a second exposure time limitation just like the main unit cameras. My guess is that the shutter of the making of camera was closed when the gun fired. For the main unit photography, they could keep doing takes until they knew they had a good flash on camera, meaning the operator didn't see the flash in the viewfinder. With a spinning mirror shutter reflex camera you see exactly what's NOT captured on film.

Edit: I just watched the ESB blooper bit. Should have watched that BEFORE writing anything related to it. :confused

There wasn't a "making of" camera in that blooper scene. I'm thinking of the Making of Star Wars footage which I haven't seen in so long I should just shut up, until I've seen it again.:unsure

 

[kpax]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

 

[VFX Freak]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

^ Love it! :lol

 

[kpax]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

...no wonder Solo's always working on the Falcon hull... he's always shooting holes in it!

 

[kpax]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

I think Deadbolt has a point about the ESB footage. If you look at the blooper footage you see a plug fire cartridge eject but no big blast.

But keep in mind these were MGC plug fire versions and not the ANH real Mauser as used in ST which also shot rapid fire blanks and I don't think the plug fires work all that well which is why as said, there are a lot of laser blasts that do not have the muzzle flash or reaction from Ford.

 

[VFX Freak]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

It seems funny to me they'd even bother with plugged guns. What's the point of no flash from a blaster? All they're doing is cycling the gun and ejecting a spent cartridge in a way that makes no sense for a laser gun. I always loved the big blasts in Star Wars, even if Han Solo couldn't shoot straight.

 

[kpax]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

I think it was just reference for where/when to put the blast in... when he pulls the trigger.

You know, in the cut bunker scene, in the unfinished footage, Han runs to the door and turns to shoot the lock open. Ford actually says BANG! because he has his back to the camera... very funny!

 

[deadbolt]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

:lol..Good one! That's a really good look for Kevin Spacey..maybe he should play Han in the next SW film? :lol

 

[VFX Freak]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

You East Coast guys are up late! I'm off to sleep. Maybe I'll dig out the Laserdisc player tomorrow...

 

[kpax]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

You East Coast guys are up late! I'm off to sleep. Maybe I'll dig out the Laserdisc player tomorrow...

...he said laser disk...did you leave it in your Delorean?:cool

..nighty night all...:sleep

 

[kurtyboy]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

Pretty sure they are real. They've been there since the first release and are WAY more detailed and realistic than any of the optical effects added in the movie. They always point perfectly straight whereas most of the laser bolts are completely misaligned.

Can't stop thinking about this and staring at the screen captures. Especially this one:

The more I look at it the more I think the muzzle flash is real. Kpax might have said this somewhere earlier, but there's no way the effects animators would have bothered (or at the time necessarily even been able) to rotoscope the flash such that it appears behind the holes of the FH. It just wouldn't be worth the time and effort for the one frame it's on the screen.

It's always possible the flash was augmented, of course, but the gun was firing something. There are blue highlights on Harrison and the parts of the Falcon that would reflect the flash, but that could be wishful thinking. It's probably just the lighting.:confused

Scottjua's post makes me wonder, could the prop guys have formulated their own blanks, or modified existing ones by adding a powder (like they use in fireworks, for instance) so they'd flash a different color than your every-day average blank used in the movies?

I'll stop for now...

 

[OdiWan72]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

Hmmm...

I remember a pic of the actual Han -Bespin- blaster where it seemed to be an actual FIRING C96 and no MGC. I based my conclusion on the slightly different shapes of the frame and the hammer/ safety.

Markus

 

[kurtyboy]

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies FOUND, Update in 1st Post

What he said. Ther was a live firing DL44 in ESB (commonly known as the 'Luke' version) used for studio shots, while MGCs were used on location (they couldn't export the live firing to Norway).

Hmmm...

I remember a pic of the actual Han -Bespin- blaster where it seemed to be an actual FIRING C96 and no MGC. I based my conclusion on the slightly different shapes of the frame and the hammer/ safety.

Markus