I really, really hope that’s supposed to be some sort of joke. But judging by the rest of your post I don’t think it is.
Amazon's Lord of the Rings (tv series)
- Thread starter ghostryder
- Start date
I really, really hope that’s supposed to be some sort of joke. But judging by the rest of your post I don’t think it is.
The best way for a franchise to fail is to do several, or all of, the following.
1. Assuming said work is based on a previously known, beloved, and successful work of fiction: Ignore, alter, or bastardize said work to suit the widest possible audience, instead of embracing what made it stand out from it's contemporaries. Often going so far as to gaslighting long time fans by trying to convince them that this new iteration is the true and only version they need worry about because they're reinventing the canon, despite your lifelong devotion to the lore.
2. Building a franchise out of a contained story with a natural conclusion, pushing it far past the need to tell more stories.
3. Use a recognizable property to inject modern political messaging into what is unlikely a good platform to do such things. Typically one's the original artist never intended, implied, or was even in agreement with.
4. Use social media, and buying off critics (schill media- for early/ exclusive access) to lambast long time fans, ostracize them, and ultimately make them feel unwelcome in their own fandom for questioning the creative choices made.
5. Studios, directors, actors, and writers, convince the fans that embrace the new iteration that the "old guard fans" are enemies or are "ists" of some kind to overlook, distract from, or wholesale silence any form of criticism, no matter how minor.
6. When viewership or merchandise sales inevitably drop as a result of these actions, the show runners often continue to blame the fans for not embracing the changes that sullied the magic of the original story, feeling that their actions are vindicated when their own failings as writers are apparent.
Look, as I said before, I'm not super well versed in Tolkien's work enough to know what the major differences are with this coming show, but I trust the friends of mine who ARE aware of the lore and I'd take their opinion over those of a modern studio trying to crank out a product. These fans have been in love with this thing their whole lives and the studios have been working on this since, when? Since Game of Thrones ended and studios realized there was money to be made, despite the disaster that was the Hobbit trilogy?
I just know patterns when I see them.
1. Assuming said work is based on a previously known, beloved, and successful work of fiction: Ignore, alter, or bastardize said work to suit the widest possible audience, instead of embracing what made it stand out from it's contemporaries. Often going so far as to gaslighting long time fans by trying to convince them that this new iteration is the true and only version they need worry about because they're reinventing the canon, despite your lifelong devotion to the lore.
2. Building a franchise out of a contained story with a natural conclusion, pushing it far past the need to tell more stories.
3. Use a recognizable property to inject modern political messaging into what is unlikely a good platform to do such things. Typically one's the original artist never intended, implied, or was even in agreement with.
4. Use social media, and buying off critics (schill media- for early/ exclusive access) to lambast long time fans, ostracize them, and ultimately make them feel unwelcome in their own fandom for questioning the creative choices made.
5. Studios, directors, actors, and writers, convince the fans that embrace the new iteration that the "old guard fans" are enemies or are "ists" of some kind to overlook, distract from, or wholesale silence any form of criticism, no matter how minor.
6. When viewership or merchandise sales inevitably drop as a result of these actions, the show runners often continue to blame the fans for not embracing the changes that sullied the magic of the original story, feeling that their actions are vindicated when their own failings as writers are apparent.
Look, as I said before, I'm not super well versed in Tolkien's work enough to know what the major differences are with this coming show, but I trust the friends of mine who ARE aware of the lore and I'd take their opinion over those of a modern studio trying to crank out a product. These fans have been in love with this thing their whole lives and the studios have been working on this since, when? Since Game of Thrones ended and studios realized there was money to be made, despite the disaster that was the Hobbit trilogy?
I just know patterns when I see them.
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Geez. It was a rhetorical question. And you're likely reading more malice in my post than is really there.
My only point is that we are so focused on being appalled, we need to consider that Amazon's RoP can very possibly take the cultural victory through simple sheer brute force over time despite the current apparent outrage.
And, to be clear, when a child steps out in public to express her fanaticism I should hope most people would still have the sense to be supportive even if she celebrates a character you might despise. I'm a human (and a dad) first before I am a fan. The point is that there is little a purist can do about it.
And the last phase of grief is necessarily acceptance.
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jkno
Legendary Member
We'll stop caring. At least I will.
I have the Original Star Wars Trilogy, and that is enough. I watch all the other films and series, good or bad as they are, but in the end I don't really care about them.
With Trek I am in with TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and the TOS/TNG films, but I found Picard and Discovery to be maximum cringe, and the JJ Trek I see as something weird, outside the classic Trek saga.
kalkamel
Master Member
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'The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power' is kind of a catastrophe
Amazon's 'The Lord of the Rings' prequel is full of ruined potential.
There were a lot of positive reviews on YouTube today.'The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power' is kind of a catastrophe
Amazon's 'The Lord of the Rings' prequel is full of ruined potential.ew.com
They pretty much raved about the same things, "I loved it! It was much better than Cats. I'm going to see it again."
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'The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power' is kind of a catastrophe
Amazon's 'The Lord of the Rings' prequel is full of ruined potential.
This is the same guy who gave a bad review for The Witcher after skipping a majority of the episodes.
Paul Andrew
Master Member
Still hoping that this turns out to be good. I joke sometimes about everyone looking too clean, but that's really just shorthand for my gut feeling that something about this whole show looks "off". I can't put my finger on it exactly, but the visuals are at once wildly expensive and flimsy looking. They look like a very costly facade, but a facade nonetheless.
If the storytelling nails it I'll be in, but it's going to have to work hard to get me to suspend my disbelief.
If the storytelling nails it I'll be in, but it's going to have to work hard to get me to suspend my disbelief.
Exactly this
I've had this feeling about the costumes since the first images were released. They don't look bad by any means, and I similarly can't exactly put my finger on why, but somehow they read as "cheap" to my eye. I even noticed in the shots of the orcs that the orc makeup looks amazing - maybe even better than LOTR in some respects - yet the helmet jumps out to me as obviously fake. I buy the monster, but not the metal!
someone shared this:
"
In case anyone else is super annoyed by every single new show ending up being “mid” and wondering why it’s basically because of the New Studio System™ of streaming services and the constant push for content at all cost as fast as possible, and here’s what you’re not noticing (that you actually do notice every time) that’s making it worse.
Basically because of the extreme push to make the
New Best Thing
that executives believe can grab a huge dedicated fan base, the pre-production time for creating MASSIVE new visual feasts is fractured into mere months alongside a severely lessened budget because of the huge extra costs of rushing each department to meet the proposed deadline. I can’t speak professionally for set design or VFX and cinemomatography, but I can say that the toll it takes on costuming and hair/makeup has made almost every new release from Amazon, Netflix, and Hulu have a B movie visual quality that’s becoming harder and harder to ignore the more we’re flooded with it.
For instance with the upcoming Rings of Power by Amazon, the reason Peter Jackson’s original trilogy stands so strongly 20+ years later is partly because the production spent years hand making every single piece of armor with real metal, hand dyeing all natural fiber fabrics and designing distinct embroidery and hairstyles specific to each race in middle earth that had continuity through the story. The natural dyes and dedicated layers of fabrics for elves/weaves for hobbit wool/dyes for Men had a much more muted medieval look, yet ethereal because of the slight detail you don’t REALLY notice but the depth draws your eye to every inch of the costume regardless. In figure 1 you can see they barely scrapped together an unnaturally gilded scale mail breastplate and just screenprinted a stretch long sleeve shirt to match underneath, all over a skirt in a single layer of a warped poly skirt. In figure 4 they just saved money on an elven wig altogether for a 2022 pompadour, with a velvet pleated priest smock (with crushed parts not even steamed out) and a neckline that isn’t tailored to fit like weve seen previously with Elrond or Celeborn.
Bridgerton (figure 2)I’ve bitched about enough already and it’s obviously not meant to be historically accurate which is totally fine, but the extreme RIT dye colorways on the multitudes on synthetic fabrics, the lack of topstitching on any of the mens tailoring and complete lack of any embellishment like beadwork or embroidery or proper undergarments to make the costuming fit correctly just make them look like a “regency gentleman” pattern from a McCall’s catalogue someone made really well for a Halloween party.
With the new house of the dragon show there’s already articles written about the wigs, and one of the main reasons they look so terrible is because they had to use synthetic hair for the Targaryen wigs. I’m 100% sure it’s due to budget, Daenerys’ wigs for season 8 were in the tens of thousands in cost. Because long white blonde human hair that has to be custom made into multiple wigs for a single character is a HUGE ask for a studio to approve budget-wise, there’s was most likely someone that decided to go with synthetic because of how many white bLondres they have in the show. The problem is that synthetic hair reflects light throughout the whole hair shaft, and it tangles extremely easily. With any shot where a character isn’t actively moving or is performing dialogue and the hair isnt being actively smoothed down every couple of second between shots, each flyaway is going to show up on camera if there’s any indirect lighting and look messy. Not only that, synthetic hair is also twice as thick per strand than human hair, so regardless of that the wigs are going to look bulky in an uncanny valley sort of way.
It’s been noticeable af with marvel the last few years, and it’s been super noticeable recently with every new show that gets rushed through to filming in order to get a release date within 1-2 years of a green light, but it’s going to be so ******* awful in 15-20 years looking back at all the potentially great but cheaply made media from this time period, the Shein era of Mass Media"
"
Nolan Yost
August 26 at 9:50 PM ·In case anyone else is super annoyed by every single new show ending up being “mid” and wondering why it’s basically because of the New Studio System™ of streaming services and the constant push for content at all cost as fast as possible, and here’s what you’re not noticing (that you actually do notice every time) that’s making it worse.
Basically because of the extreme push to make the
For instance with the upcoming Rings of Power by Amazon, the reason Peter Jackson’s original trilogy stands so strongly 20+ years later is partly because the production spent years hand making every single piece of armor with real metal, hand dyeing all natural fiber fabrics and designing distinct embroidery and hairstyles specific to each race in middle earth that had continuity through the story. The natural dyes and dedicated layers of fabrics for elves/weaves for hobbit wool/dyes for Men had a much more muted medieval look, yet ethereal because of the slight detail you don’t REALLY notice but the depth draws your eye to every inch of the costume regardless. In figure 1 you can see they barely scrapped together an unnaturally gilded scale mail breastplate and just screenprinted a stretch long sleeve shirt to match underneath, all over a skirt in a single layer of a warped poly skirt. In figure 4 they just saved money on an elven wig altogether for a 2022 pompadour, with a velvet pleated priest smock (with crushed parts not even steamed out) and a neckline that isn’t tailored to fit like weve seen previously with Elrond or Celeborn.
Bridgerton (figure 2)I’ve bitched about enough already and it’s obviously not meant to be historically accurate which is totally fine, but the extreme RIT dye colorways on the multitudes on synthetic fabrics, the lack of topstitching on any of the mens tailoring and complete lack of any embellishment like beadwork or embroidery or proper undergarments to make the costuming fit correctly just make them look like a “regency gentleman” pattern from a McCall’s catalogue someone made really well for a Halloween party.
With the new house of the dragon show there’s already articles written about the wigs, and one of the main reasons they look so terrible is because they had to use synthetic hair for the Targaryen wigs. I’m 100% sure it’s due to budget, Daenerys’ wigs for season 8 were in the tens of thousands in cost. Because long white blonde human hair that has to be custom made into multiple wigs for a single character is a HUGE ask for a studio to approve budget-wise, there’s was most likely someone that decided to go with synthetic because of how many white bLondres they have in the show. The problem is that synthetic hair reflects light throughout the whole hair shaft, and it tangles extremely easily. With any shot where a character isn’t actively moving or is performing dialogue and the hair isnt being actively smoothed down every couple of second between shots, each flyaway is going to show up on camera if there’s any indirect lighting and look messy. Not only that, synthetic hair is also twice as thick per strand than human hair, so regardless of that the wigs are going to look bulky in an uncanny valley sort of way.
It’s been noticeable af with marvel the last few years, and it’s been super noticeable recently with every new show that gets rushed through to filming in order to get a release date within 1-2 years of a green light, but it’s going to be so ******* awful in 15-20 years looking back at all the potentially great but cheaply made media from this time period, the Shein era of Mass Media"
ScourgiousJinx
Master Member
Although yes story, writing, directing and acting trump everything else I kind of hate that I feel like I need to ignore things that are normally important to me in movies and shows to enjoy them. Especially something like costume design that when done well can really add to so much flavor, style and transport the viewer to another world. Bad cheaply made costumes are a distraction (just like poor animation/CGI, bad set design, unnecessary plot holes, historical inaccuracies, etc) that pull me out of what I'm watching. We shouldn't have to fight to be able to enjoy content. It's taxing.
kalkamel
Master Member
More negative reviews:
www.dailymail.co.uk
CHRISTOPHER STEVENS reviews The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power
This is a disaster dragon - plucked, spatchcocked, with a tankerload of Paxo stuffed up its fundament, roasted and served with soggy sprouts.
HeartBlade
Sr Member
To be kind of fair, I dont like the Witcher either. It had a great first episode but goes downhill from there and get more and more independent from the books.
I am seeing alot of good reviews for Rings of Power but then again, Im also seeing alot of praise and good reviews for The last of Us part 1 which is as blatant as a cash grab as you can get so...
Dan Murrell (formerly of Honest Trailers) just released his review on YouTube, which was the primary one I’ve been waiting for. He tends to treat even movies/shows he doesn’t like overall in a very fair and optimistic manner, so I expected if anything he'd give a middle-of-the-road assessment.
This is a remarkably harsh review for him.
A taste:
“I would love to be able to rave about this show – even if only just to spite the people that have devoted their lives to destroying it… but I can’t. I wanted this show to work; I wanted the magic of Middle Earth to return because I love the Lord of the Rings movies in particular, and the visuals are stunning in this series so far… but the rest of what was happening was utterly devoid of interest for me.”
Well... darn.
This is a remarkably harsh review for him.
A taste:
“I would love to be able to rave about this show – even if only just to spite the people that have devoted their lives to destroying it… but I can’t. I wanted this show to work; I wanted the magic of Middle Earth to return because I love the Lord of the Rings movies in particular, and the visuals are stunning in this series so far… but the rest of what was happening was utterly devoid of interest for me.”
Well... darn.
So…someone summoned The Gorgon from Star Trek??
“Hail, Hail, Fire and Snow…call the Angel, we will go…
“Hail, Hail, Fire and Snow…call the Angel, we will go…
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