Alleged Screen Used Hero TOS Phaser up for auction (now the aftermath)

[Jintosh]

And again, the determing factor would be the qualifications of the individuals who determined it as authentic.

Yep. I watched classic Pawn Stars. People would come in with stuff from claimed experts, verifying authenticity, and the actual expert said he had never heard of the expert claimed by the customer, and could also verify that the item did not appear authentic. Also, stuff that had been sold in auction as authentic, was also declared to be not be authentic when an expert for the Pawn Stars show was called in.

Not all experts are equal.

 

[robn1]

"ROBN1" states: "The handle looks "quite different from Greg's (Jein)" Are you absolutely certain you know what you are saying here Robn1?

I'm saying the size, shape and details of the handles don't match. The center cut out in the butt plate doesn't match Greg's, but it looks exactly like several replicas I've seen.

Also: "The other three had jewels" Precisely WHEN did these things have jewels, Robn1? Neither of the two depicted have any jewels. Is that irrefutible "proof" neither of these is an original???

The known hero depicted has no jewel, as can be seen on screen. The other 3 are seen on screen with jewels, 1 blue and 2 red.

"Crispy" as an adjective here? Robin1, THAT does sounds like you do enjoy those fries. And too, brush applied, enamel paint occludes a "crisp finish" you know.

Crispy as a noun, it's what we on the forums call the diamond embossed foil on the P1 sight hood, a term that's been in use for many years. The diamond texture on the auction phaser is different from Greg's, and from all known original midgrades.

And for the record I've made no claims as to the authenticity of this item, or the lack of such. I'm only pointing out the discrepancies I have observed. I've also corrected my observation of the emitter which does match a screen cap of 1 hero at least.

 

[MARK M3]

Yep. I watched classic Pawn Stars. People would come in stuff from claimed experts, verifying authenticity, and the actual expert said he had never heard of the expert claimed by the customer, and could also verify that the item did not appear authentic. Also, stuff that had been sold in auction as authentic, was also declared to be not be authentic when an expert for the Pawn Stars show was called in.

Not all experts are equal.

I agree with that 100%! I never put much stock in any expert that was phoned in on Pawn Stars! However, having said that, if we were to find out who the experts were in the case of this phaser, perhaps the majority ( and yours) of opinions would change.

 

[Anakin Starkiller]

And what proof can you provide that in the intervening HALF CENTURY since production, that the Velcro itself wasn't replaced?

---Those internal components PROVE these are the only two surviving "Hero Phaser" pistols.

Wow! almost no responses all day yesterday. Then five pages today.

To be clear, I wasn't arguing concretely that the Velcro couldn't be replaced. I was stating, in summary, the arguments against the phaser's authenticity that seem the most compelling. In all honesty, I'd love it if this was legit. It would give me a new model to replicate for my collection, which would be quite a bit of fun--examining the GJein sure has been a blast. I've enjoyed learning about the original and getting to dig into every detail. I wish there was another one to pick over, especially with such great references as we've been given here. But, as I've followed the objections made here and on other forums, those two points sounded compelling to me and in my internal deliberation on what I think/feel about it started to tip the scales.

Also, not responding for two hours in the middle of the work day is not ignoring someone for fear of engaging in discourse, it's being busy with work

 

[Captain Dunsel]

I agree with that 100%! I never put much stock in any expert that was phoned in on Pawn Stars! However, having said that, if we were to find out who the experts were in the case of this phaser, perhaps the majority ( and yours) of opinions would change.

Good points for consideration, of course.

As to whether an item may be considered to be “authentic” due to the fact that it passes muster to the point of appearing in an auction, that’s a good question.

The following are props that are now widely acknowledged as replicas that were sold at Sotheby’s, Butterfield & Butterfield, Christie’s, Profiles in History, etc. over the years….

 

[robn1]

"ALLEY" Claims: "The use of a stamped aluminum extra crispy that appears to have been possibly subjected to a “black wash” vs. a Mylar extra crispy." Again with the "cripsy", it's probably time to lay off all the fries and potato chips guys.

Alley, This material is embossed (rolled actually) thin (as in less than .010" thick) sheet aluminum, precisely the same stock as used on the Klingon Disrupter barrel tip "Coffins". But here, one of these Hand Phasers has the material applied inverted, 180 degrees out from the other. You are looking at the underside of the very same material! Do you see that now that I have pointed it out?

If the foil was inverted the diamonds would point up, which they do not.

Greg's hero:

Auction phaser:

 

[MARK M3]

delete.

 

[Gregatron]

Good points for consideration, of course.

As to whether an item may be considered to be “authentic” due to the fact that it passes muster to the point of appearing in an auction, that’s a good question.

The following are props that are now widely acknowledged as replicas that were sold at Sotheby’s, Butterfield & Butterfield, Christie’s, Profiles in History, etc. over the years….

View attachment 1465848View attachment 1465849View attachment 1465851View attachment 1465852View attachment 1465847

Exactly. There is a long history of forgeries being sold as authentic props at premium prices, and so we have to be skeptical until enough evidence comes out to prove the authenticity of an item like this. An authentic hero phaser from TOS is a holy grail piece, and is an item ripe for scammers to try and make bank from.

As noted, it would not be hard--especially with today's resources, like 3D printing--to study the extensive images of the Jein floating around online and craft a convincing forgery.


I stand by my statements. The details of this prop do not match those of any known onscreen hero, and there are questionable differences in construction and shapes compared to the Jein. Sure, it looks reasonably authentic at first glance, but how many other replicas made by talented people over the past decade could pass for originals, too? How hard would it be to make a high-quality replica and then simulate aging and sloppy paint?

Not too hard, I think. Grab up, say, some robn1 or RShanko or Pielock fiberglass P1/P2 shells and go to work.


Of course, this is when all the "Maybe they were built at different times! Maybe it was modified during filming! Maybe it's a prototype that wasn't seen onscreen!" theories will start popping up, with nothing to support them.


Again, Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. I say "fake", and await proof to the contrary.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

So...I would ask this. For your examples provided above, Who originally authenticated each individual item as a real prop?Do we have documentation who he/they/she was/were? While good examples, once again, without knowing who authenticated this Phaser, I wouldn't be so quick to judgement.

Unfortunately, I have no idea what particular person / pronoun was the source of authentication utilized for those referenced prior sold pieces. I would assume that “someone” was used in that capacity as an authenticator. ( I would hope that was the case)

In any case, more to come on this particular prop that is the subject of this thread, I imagine.

 

[Jintosh]

I'm saying the size, shape and details of the handles don't match. The center cut out in the butt plate doesn't match Greg's, but it looks exactly like several replicas I've seen.

And that's the problem, isn't it ? This has been "repaired". So, we can't know what was done.

-------edited ---------

 

[MARK M3]

post removed

 

[Highliners]

If we are going to continue to discuss it's potential accuracy in a useful way, instead of attacking each other, then can someone please comment (intelligently) on the photo I've attached. Since one of these is the auction phaser and the other is a Jein hero, this area seems the most different to me, including a different trigger length. Are these differences within the margin of error in a vintage prop ? This is a serious question. (Please answer without trolling)

First I take "extreme offense" at you're accusing me of so much as attacking anyone... (ahem, aside from the "French Fries" comment. I probably should have said Potato Chips or Cheetos from the get-go. But honestly, a few of you on here need to develop a sense of humor about life and not be so serious).

SO and okay, what we genuinely have at stake here is the value and Provenance of the history of this, the ultimate in Star Trek Props.

In the effort to nullify this current besmirching and thereby possibility of reducing the estimated multiple six-figure value of what has officially been sanctioned by "those who know" as a genuine "Hero Phaser Pistol", I have had a phone discussion during the last hour with one of those principal's who evaluated this thingy.

As I'd expect you all already know; the 1966 originals were not made by Wah Chang, and were originally painted Black & White with the BRASS grip painted white. They did NOT have any functioning aspects. No lights, no moving parts, they were simple and true "Props". These "Hero's" were later made to light and have operating features and that two tone grey re-paint, all this work having then been done by Wah Chang.

From the attached opened up image, I can see these are internally identical and were modified to operate in precisely the same manner and by the same person at the very same period in time. To disagree with this as fact, would simply be put as, foolish.

And from what I have now been told, of the four original "Hero Phaser Pistols", no two have identical trigger buttons either in length or diameter, (whatever was handy in aluminum rod having been used back in the day. ) Also, these two weigh virtually the same in one's hand and of most significance; they are identically painted, in exactly the same fashion and with the absolutely identical shades of gray.
---That no one on here so much as commented on this matching paint is remarkable. And just how probable would that be with a copy/fake?

So to revisit why I feel several of you guys are insisting this is a fake: It still comes off as simple "envy". And as misery loves company, what I see happening here is the following:

"Why don't we all 'Group Think' style, tear this sucker down and reduce it's Auction Price potential!"

Or, put another way, an: "If I can't have it, no one can" mentality.

But back to the history: When Wah Chang added the inner workings he back-filled the polyester/fiberglass shells with multiple layers of epoxy resin in order to secure these numerous internal working components and operating springs, electrical and mechanical wires etc. and that is what shows. See for yourselves.

You asked if these are resin or fiberglass. The shells are Polyester resin and a light weave of fiberglass cloth. The additional layers (many!) of epoxy is visible in the attached images as is....

"WHAT!! A "Phaser 'Three'" ...you query?? HOW would that be possible IF they aren't BOTH genuine and original "Star Trek, Hero Phaser Pistol Props"?

Right there guys, these photos (NOT to be found anywhere else!) are my "Stinking Badge", ... So are you guys satisfied now?

 

[Highliners]

And that's the problem, isn't it ? This has been "repaired". And yes, I intended quotes. In a BAD repair, you just get whatever replacement parts are available that seem close. Maybe we are ALL, right. Maybe this handle is NOT genuine, because it was added to replace a handle that was too badly damaged. Maybe this repair guy saw that one phaser had Velcro, assumed that a lack of Velcro meant a LOST piece and added the Velcro. (which is NOT accurate to TOS) Maybe the paint job was so bad, he added an inaccurate paint job. Maybe the grill was damaged and he replaced that. That would mean some of this is real and some is fake. Not all or nothing. This seems like a pig in a poke, to me.

You are going by a photo YOU didn't take. They are identical.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Be careful, although we have a delete button, your words may come back at you.

Well at the point at which veiled threats are made, in what should be a civil discussion, I find myself suddenly losing interest in continuing the discussion on this topic.

“There are always possibilities”. I remain open to more information. I will leave it at that.

 

[Jintosh]

And from what I have now been told, of the four original "Hero Phaser Pistols", no two have identical trigger buttons either in length or diameter, (whatever was handy in aluminum rod having been used back in the day. )

That would answer my specific question of the trigger. Thanks.

 

[Highliners]

And how about the rest of what I have shown to ALL of you?

Well at the point at which veiled threats are made, in what should be a civil discussion, I find myself suddenly losing interest in continuing the discussion on this topic.

“There are always possibilities”. I remain open to more information. I will leave it at that.

Well? the information needed to make a good decision on the authenticity has already been presented. Unless that is, you as an individual cannot discern such things for yourself.

For "Hand Made" these two are identical. That would be impossible if either was made from photographs.

 

[Anakin Starkiller]

To play devil's advocate, and to address the question of "absolutely identical shades of gray."

Twelve years ago, the West Coat midgrade was examined first hand by a member of TPZ with a Minolta Chroma Meter model CR-221b Meter unit and CR-221 Measuring Head colorimeter, a DuPont SpectraMaster Solid and Metallic color library chips, a PPG Color Selector color strips (circa 1997), Pantone Color Formula Guide fan deck, a Canon EOS 20D digital camera with 17-85 lens and an Expodisc to set custom white levels to hopefully capture accurate color images, and a Powerbook Macintosh and Epson Perfection scanner. The results of the color detective work was published publicly online. This information could be used to replicate the color of an original phaser through a custom paint mix, especially is multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars were on the line.

 

[Apollo]

Am I the only one who smells a whiff of dirty socks in the air?

 

[Jintosh]

And how about the rest of what I have shown to ALL of you?

Wading through your responses when it contains so much content that is not relevant is difficult. I did indeed go back and edit one of my comments that was highly questionable. You set the tone, others (myself included) need to be careful not to focus on that.

 

[robn1]

As I'd expect you all already know; the 1966 originals were not made by Wah Chang, and were originally painted Black & White with the BRASS grip painted white. They did NOT have any functioning aspects. No lights, no moving parts, they were simple and true "Props". These "Hero's" were later made to light and have operating features and that two tone grey re-paint, all this work having then been done by Wah Chang.

From the attached opened up image, I can see these are internally identical and were modified to operate in precisely the same manner and by the same person at the very same period in time. To disagree with this as fact, would simply be put as, foolish.

Who should I believe, you or my own lying eyes?

Seen on screen, from The Man Trap, a black and white hero with an illuminated P1.

Also from The Man Trap, an illuminated P2, notice the P1 is lit in both shots as the sight is raised.

And from The Enemy Within, illuminated black and white P2.

I'm not saying the experts don't know their stuff, but they can certainly make mistakes.