First of all this may be a hard decision but certainly not a fast one. Its not like this came up today. This was reported a long time ago
Agreed, and because it is a hard decision, it isn't one that we are making a snap decision on. I know not making a snap decision in the past has bitten us, but I would rather give this consideration instead of jumping on it.
its apparent that:
A. Hes recasting
B. He has plans to sell
Pretty cut and dry.
The same could be applied to Matt (well, not an issue anymore since he is no longer a member), Gino, a ton of the Vader guys, the CFO crew, relicemaker, Sgt Fang, on and on and on and on. I know this probably seems like I am trying to give Swamp Donkey a pass, but you are treading a slippery slope with comments like the above. What separates the above people from Swamp Donkey? In a lot of cases it is that some of those examples (there are plenty of others if you want to defend those particular ones) don't know the origins of their pieces and so everyone was just ok with it becaue it was unknown. But those pieces didn't just come from no where.
Second: The 501st and their less then stellar history in regards to recasting may not be the best example as to how to apply standards. The 501st has been, as a whole, one of the absolute worst dens of recasting out there.
In pointing out the 501st, I was giving an example of a group outside the RPF that takes a different view than some of the more outspoken members here, not suggesting that we follow their lead.
People that have been banned here for recasting thrive there. coincidentally using the EXACT SAME EXCUSES LISTED HERE
1. I bought it and 'worked on it' so its fair game
2. Im trying to give the fans something they want
3. The guy that had the original doesnt own the rights to it
4. We only have his word that he tried to contact Ian but to no avail.
1. I am in full agreement with you that, in general, reworking someone else's work doesn't make it ok to recast an item, regardless of the percentage.
2. I have seen this site and its members be willing to turn a blind eye to people providing something they want. In fact, much of the duplicity in what is and isn't considered acceptable to recast often seems to come down to how much someone wants the piece in question.
3. There is something to be said here and this is a slippery slope... when it comes to an original piece or a piece that has lineage to an original, who does have the rights. I know some have very strong opinons on this, but I also know those opinions vary widely from person to person.
4. This is true. And we only have the word of others that Ian is indeed still around and upset about this. That one cuts both ways and part of what we have been waiting to see is whether or not Ian will emerge (registration is open and it is easy to email us even without registering). For some it wouldn't matter whether Ian did or not, but considering the history of how this site has dealt with this in the past, I think that does play a role.
Pretty much exactly what has been stated here are the same reasons given for every recast set of stormtrooper armor out there. Indisputable.
Also, there is no doubt this is a recast. The source has been admitted to and the plan to recast it and sell it has been admitted to. Because Ian isnt a member here its OK? Since when did THAT become the standard?
I wouldn't call it "the standard" but you will have to admit, it is frequently allowed, the most famous case that I can think of is Sgt Fang and the "mystery" helmet he snagged off ebay. It was clearly a recast. The owner wasn't a member... and the whole site stood by without a word while it was recast.
While it might be stretching it a bit, and while I don't want anyone to feel they are being thrown under the bus, I would also point to pieces like the Indy staff of Ra headpiece that was recently offered in the Junkyard. Me and 99 other people have one of those and the whole site praised Replicmaker and jedifyfe for making this available (I am one of the ones who is praising them). Yet the piece they have isn't a screen used piece and it is somewhat ambiguous as to whether it is truly a production piece or not... and surely they don't have the blessing of those selling the piece to recast them, but we are all ok with that...
Don't look at this as me using these examples to specifically defend Swamp Donkey. My point is you are making this appear clear cut and that this site has always taken the same stance on everything. That isn't the case.
If Ian isnt a member here and therefor doesnt seem to have protection why should these anonymous outsiders have a say.
You are misunderstanding me. My point was, what seems clear to you here within the confines of the RPF is NOT clear and is not even believed by many outside these confines. Many people believe that anything with screenused lineage IS a free-for-all, so you can't be surprised when a relative newcomer comes here with that attitude and is confused by the complex and often hypocritcial "law of the land" to which some members subscribe.
And in regard to Ian, no he doesn't innately receive any protection from this site anymore than anyone else. Don't take that to mean we wouldn't uphold someone's claim, but I can tell you that we aren't looking to become the recasting police for the world. There are already too many groups fighting over that tin star.
If theres something going on behind the scenes that we dont know about then please enlighten us. All WE see is a guy that, as stated above, said he's got a piece that hes recasting and selling and thinks he has a right to because he worked on it. A friend of Ians has said Ians not happy about it but that doesnt seem to hold the weight of non-member 3d parties.
It holds about as much weight for us as Swamp Donkey saying he tried to contact Ian holds for you. I have no idea if Ian even knows or cares about this situation. While it seems to be causing a big stink here, it hasn't been worth him firing off a single email...
What you decide will set the tone for the RPF.
Trust me, I am well aware of the implications. That is why I am not making a move as quickly as you would like.
If Swamp Donkey gets away with this then an argument that has never been acceptable here for recasting now becomes the new loophole. What speaks volumes as to Swamp Donkeys character is his attitude of,"Whatever...Im going to sell these whether you like it or not."
Realistically there are already folks behind the scenes that are going to buy this piece...Swamp Donkey already has all the contact info and interest he needs and he doesnt even have to start a Junkyard thread but I find it amusing, and telling, that he made the erroneous assumption that the only people who think this is wrong are people who already have one. More arrogant presumption.
Again, what you decide is going to either maintain a tone or set a precedent.
All good points. At this point, and probably from the beginning, this piece was going to be recast and any action by us would not stop it. The question comes into whether we would publicly condone it by 1) allowing open sales or 2) taking an extreme measure and banning Swamp Donkey.
As with all things, my concern and focus is not primarily focused on external parties, but on the safety of the members of this site. As you stated, the question is not if this is recasting. It is. No one is arguing it. So are a lot of the things that are offered on this site. The crux of my concern is simply this; does Swamp Donkey pose a threat to our membership given his attitude towards recasting despite his being made aware of the general feelings of the more outspoken member of our community. Would he do the same to one of our members?
When we have what we feel is a clear answer to that question, you will have your answer.
