ALIEN Warrior head refurbishing project.....

[SwampDonkey]

But ok, on to what may be my last post on this thread....lol.
With the paint off, there were some rather serious issues with this peice. The most glaring were the entire sections that were missing due to sloppy casting (orperhaps molding). The large tubes under the "crown" were missing their bottom halves.

Not only that but there were bumps and bubbles everywhere. The extra stuff had to be removed and the missing stuff replaced. ALso visible in the above pics are the "smoothed over" corrugated tubing that rims the crown. That had to be replaced as well.
AFter lots of grinding, sanding, sculpting, more sanding, priming, and more sanding we arrive to this point.

Since the original was foam, sections of it kinda deflated and so needed to be repaired. I took a bit of creative licence and tried to make this section look like bone.

Both the front and back were caved in and had to be filled to match the original. I bulked and sculped the sunken areas with sculpey, then later primed and sanded the area smooth.

Fter a few coats of primer/filler, the small "rim" tubing was resculpted and spot putty was used to finish the contours. The final coat was a black primer to finish the smooth surface

 

[Onigiri]

Nobody is trying to diminish the work youve done on this but the fact remains you wouldnt have a head to restore if you hadnt gotten it from Ian. People will always try to find a way to justify recasting which is why there are policies in place here. It also begs the question that if your renovation was so extensive and skills so great why not simply use Ian's piece as a model to sculpt your own. If you really had to re-sculpt 40% it can hardly be considered from screen used anymore so why not just sculpt your own piece if you want to sell them and avoid the issue all together?

 

[SwampDonkey]

Nobody is trying to diminish the work youve done on this but the fact remains you wouldnt have a head to restore if you hadnt gotten it from Ian. People will always try to find a way to justify recasting which is why there are policies in place here. It also begs the question that if your renovation was so extensive and skills so great why not simply use Ian's piece as a model to sculpt your own. If you really had to re-sculpt 40% it can hardly be considered from screen used anymore so why not just sculpt your own piece if you want to sell them and avoid the issue all together?

Right. So him refurbishing an alien head and selling casts on Ebay is OK, me doing the same thing isnt right? Yep, I bought it from him on Ebay.
The original was screen used and ive done my best to preserve what can be preserved. There's no way in hell someone took any kind of time with this before throwing silicone on it and selling casts. I know this because ive gone over it with a fine tooth comb and had to fix all the issues. Oh and ive got tons of pics to back that up.
But please explain to me why he gets a cast, sells copies and its OK. If I do it, not OK?
Did he "sculpt his own"?

 

[Onigiri]

I will try and explain clearly since its apparent you arent at all familiar with what we, as a community, have adopted as rules. Ian's piece was original. Ian brought it to market. Our hobby, for right or wrong, protects those who bring the casts of screen used originals to the market. Ian did this. Ian is protected as he cast a screen used original. You however are re-casting from a cast received from him regardless of any restoration. This what THIS community defines as a No-No. You may not agree with it but those are the rules here. You did not cast a screen used or original piece...you are recasting a cast from a screen used used piece and therein is the difference. Doesnt matter that he didnt sculpt the original he acquired it and brought it to market. Same goes for trooper helmets etc. If we dont protect those that bring us 1st gen casts from screen used pieces that they acquire from those who will simply recast them then they will simply not offer those pieces up any more. Its that simple and its how we protect our access to these pieces. The most rudimentary search through these forums would have answered these questions for you. You dont have to agree with it (many dont) but those that dont and proceed to re-cast are no longer welcome here. Again, its not about your skills or some black and white legalities as to i infringement. It is a policy followed and enforced here to protect those that brought these pieces to the hobby and thereby preserve the hobby itself. You havent used any argument that hasnt been used by others ad nauseum to justify why they think its ok for them to do it but its a moot point. We, as a community, neither condone nor allow it although Im sure there are folks pm'ing you behind the scenes as to get one without pinging the radar...if Ian signs off it then youre golden...if he doesnt then youre not.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I will try and explain clearly since its apparent you arent at all familiar with what we, as a community, have adopted as rules. Ian's piece was original. Ian brought it to market. Our hobby, for right or wrong, protects those who bring the casts of screen used originals to the market. Ian did this. Ian is protected as he cast a screen used original. You however are re-casting from a cast received from him regardless of any restoration. This what THIS community defines as a No-No. You may not agree with it but those are the rules here. You did not cast a screen used or original piece...you are recasting a cast from a screen used used piece and therein is the difference. Doesnt matter that he didnt sculpt the original he acquired it and brought it to market. Same goes for trooper helmets etc. If we dont protect those that bring us 1st gen casts from screen used pieces that they acquire from those who will simply recast them then they will simply not offer those pieces up any more. Its that simple and its how we protect our access to these pieces. The most rudimentary search through these forums would have answered these questions for you. You dont have to agree with it (many dont) but those that dont and proceed to re-cast are no longer welcome here. Again, its not about your skills or some black and white legalities as to i infringement. It is a policy followed and enforced here to protect those that brought these pieces to the hobby and thereby preserve the hobby itself. You havent used any argument that hasnt been used by others ad nauseum to justify why they think its ok for them to do it but its a moot point. We, as a community, neither condone nor allow it although Im sure there are folks pm'ing you behind the scenes as to get one without pinging the radar...if Ian signs off it then youre golden...if he doesnt then youre not.

Ian didnt bring this into the hobby bud, his was the second aliens head Ive owned. The first was also purchased on ebay and was in even worse shape. This was back in 03. They've been circulating for much longer than you think.
But thats OK, we can close this thread down or whatever since I have no reason to argue with you about the massive hypocracy your argument is based on. Im betting you forked out a few grand for a Sideshow bust huh?
Cheers

 

[AnsonJames]

You should replace the top teeth - these are completely Ian's sculpt - amongst other things. The original piece was made from foam and was in very poor shape so quite a lot of time was spent on this.

You seem to have changed your tune about the quality of this piece now that you're trying to justify recasting it - remember saying this here;

http://www.therpf.com/f9/alien-head-screen-accurate-paintjob-93061/

Yes I figured as much since it was so long ago. Its a shame as the casts he pulled have no equal. He even put the latex tendons on the jaws instead of a pre-fab appliance like Sideshow. He was a great guy to deal with.

Im not actually selling these, more just sharing with the group. I probably wouldnt turn down a healthy offer though

And this

Ha! Yes it did. He ownes some top notch moulds huh?

To this;

The original was screen used and ive done my best to preserve what can be preserved. There's no way in hell someone took any kind of time with this before throwing silicone on it and selling casts. I know this because ive gone over it with a fine tooth comb and had to fix all the issues. Oh and ive got tons of pics to back that up

What changed?

 

[Wes R]

Yep, its pretty nifty once you get the hang of it

Takes a bit of getting used to though. I scorched one of my projects but it actually improved the textures so i may do it again.

 

[SwampDonkey]

You should replace the top teeth - these are completely Ian's sculpt - amongst other things. The original piece was made from foam and was in very poor shape so quite a lot of time was spent on this.

You seem to have changed your tune about the quality of this piece now that you're trying to justify recasting it - remember saying this here;

http://www.therpf.com/f9/alien-head-screen-accurate-paintjob-93061/


And this




To this;




What changed?

Ther paint came off.
I dont guess you can see the "before" pics ive posted?

The teeth actually did look replaced, good job too. Believe it or not but Im casting them seperately, so Ill whip up another set of upper teeth. Anything else?

 

[Clutch]

How about adding a neck?

 

[AnsonJames]

Ther paint came off.
I dont guess you can see the "before" pics ive posted?

The teeth actually did look replaced, good job too. Believe it or not but Im casting them seperately, so Ill whip up another set of upper teeth. Anything else?

How about not recasting?

So far you filled some dents, primed and built up some tubing - I've cleaned up casts a lot worse than this -
it didn't entitle me to sell copies.

 

[noble]

Seems a little confusing to me.

Scenario 1:
If someone built a head completely from scratch, and sold pieces. Ok.

Then someone recast their work to sell. Not Ok.


Scenario 2:
Someone gets a production piece, and cleans it up a little, and sells pieces. Ok.

Then someone recasts it and cleans it up even further. ????

It doesn't seem clear cut like #1

 

[Too Much Garlic]

*Not OK!* in both scenarios. Only those who see their chance to cash in on someone else's offering will find excuses to not get that.

 

[SwampDonkey]

*Not OK!* in both scenarios. Only those who see their chance to cash in on someone else's offering will find excuses to not get that.

The goal here was to make something BETTER than I had and offer it to those who would not otherwise be able to get one . I dont think the vocal minority here is getting that ive worked on this EVERY DAY since Novermber. If 25% original work buys you rights to the peice, what does 40+?
Every square inch of this peice has had work done to it. I went through 2.5lb of sculpey, 2 cans of spray filler, one can of primer, a tube of putty,a stack of sandpaper, and 50 days hunched over to get it to where it is now- and that was just to fix the issues.

If I had just taken my head and tossed it in silicone, yeah I could see how that would be kinda dooshy. I suppose that would have been easy, cheap, and made economic sense, but that was never the goal here. I invested the time, money, and effort to improve the genetics of this peice- to fix what was wrong with it and return it to the community vastly better than when I found it.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

I've worked on pieces for two years on and off and redid 90% of the surface. Still wouldn't mold and cast it. That's where we differ. I don't use the rework and what I paid to get it done to justify recasting.

No work buys you the rights. He got the right because he molded and cast an original. If you want the same right, go find an original and mold and cast that. Don't take someone else's offering, think you're improving it and claim it for your own to make copies of.

Or let's put it this way: I buy a copy off yours, do some alterations, claim 40% rework and copy yours. Would you be okay with that?
Not that I ever would, 'cause not only would I be recasting you, but I'd be recasting the guy you recast as well.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I've worked on pieces for two years on and off and redid 90% of the surface. Still wouldn't mold and cast it. That's where we differ. I don't use the rework and what I paid to get it done to justify recasting.

No work buys you the rights. He got the right because he molded and cast an original. If you want the same right, go find an original and mold and cast that. Don't take someone else's offering, think you're improving it and claim it for your own to make copies of.

Or let's put it this way: I buy a copy off yours, do some alterations, claim 40% rework and copy yours. Would you be okay with that?
Not that I ever would, 'cause not only would I be recasting you, but I'd be recasting the guy you recast as well.

You need to look up the section that defines "recasting" on this forum. Having an original doesnt entitle you to squat.
But you know what, we could pick this apart forever. I wont address the subject any further. If im breaking forum rules, delete the thread. End of story.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

:rolleyes

.

 

[SwampDonkey]

How about adding a neck?

I'd love to do both a neck and tounge, and will show the biuld of the tounge on this thread (if it stays here).

 

[Onigiri]

Its simple really...the mods need to make a decision one way or the other and that will put an end to the discussion (wait...this is the RPF so maybe not lol). Like I said before...(and for those that dont get the difference or want to argue rights) its not about what some think is fair or unfair its about a set of rules put in place specific to this hobby and board. When one person circumnavigates the established policies here as to recasting it then opens up the floodgates to more people trying to find loopholes. End result? Those with the screen used pieces stop making them available and the hobby suffers.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Its simple really...the mods need to make a decision one way or the other and that will put an end to the discussion (wait...this is the RPF so maybe not lol). Like I said before...(and for those that dont get the difference or want to argue rights) its not about what some think is fair or unfair its about a set of rules put in place specific to this hobby and board. When one person circumnavigates the established policies here as to recasting it then opens up the floodgates to more people trying to find loopholes. End result? Those with the screen used pieces stop making them available and the hobby suffers.

So the hobby will suffer becasue people like the one I bought my head from wont make them available? These heads were sold, as in for money, several of them. I was one of the guys who bought one on Ebay where they were being offered. It wasnt a "gift" to the prop community. It was rushed into rubber and thanks to some clever camera angles and paint, people like me forked over hundreds of dollars to own one.
So you have an alien head, dont you? Sideshow?
The only people who are fussing about this are the ones who already have one. You speak for a very, very tiny minority of people on this forum. Trust me on that.
Oh and it wasnt "screen used".

 

[SwampDonkey]

A few more shots of what I had to work with. and some random shots of where we are now: