A Darth Vader Collection and Lineage Thread....

[SithLord]

I've compared the SL mask to the original ANH mask, and that rear edge in terms of how it is shaped on the SL is identical in every way with the screen mask.

So then how could the TD have more material going back further, a rounded rear edge in that area (not straight viewed from the side), and a complete indentation? In fact if you look at the SL and TD side by side, it is pretty obvious that the additional undercut where it curves out was cut flat and that led to the straighter shape we see on the SL, and also on the screen mask. Not only that, but just at the right corner of the rear of the SL mask has what looks like some reworking to make it more of a corner and less of a curve, the curve left over from the time it had more material back there (the curve that matches the TD in that area).

So what does this mean? There are two possibilities. One is that the TD ANH did not come from a mold taken off the original ANH mask, because if the original mask is missing that extra rear section, then how could it be on the TD? But the grill in the mouth of the TD refutes that possibility.

The other possibility therefore is that the TD is cast from a mold taken from the original ANH mask, but before that area was trimmed on the mask, and therefore the mold for the TD (not necessarily the TD itself) would have come from the original ANH mask before it was trimmed in the rear. Now, the trimmed version of the original ANH mask has the original paint on it, so it would have to have been trimmed during the ANH production.

Along with the other early details I've shown, this is really the proof I had been looking for that the TD is from the ANH mask at an early stage of its life...

Answering my own posts again... :confused

Anyway here's what I meant....overlay of the rear right bottom corner on the TD and SL. The 60/40 overlay on the left shows the amount of additional undercut the TD has in that area. Also shown is the curved "corner" indicated by the black frame, and how it looks like there was some work done there on the SL ANH corner to go from being rounder to being more square, and the boundary of the round part matches the rounded edge of the TD. Since the SL matches the screen mask perfectly in terms of that rear edge and corner, it is strange that the TD has more, but also that the original is trimmed just where one would take off that extra material on the TD to make it a straight edge, and the corner changed to match that straight edge.

And just a reminder that the front/rear mold seam for the full head mold that the original ANH mask came out of would be well ahead of this area, so there could have been initially more undercut that was later trimmed back to be straight....and the TD could be showing how the original mask looked before it was trimmed during the ANH production.

 

[SithLord]

I had one of these helmets. Its a Don Post, highly modded.. There was no dome mount at all. It was a smooth top mask. The Gypsy boy connection was thin at best. It turns out that GB tweaked only a few minor things on this helmet. Then the owner used his name all over the sales of it on Ebay a few years back. IIRC, the dome was warped.

GB did not like being associated with this helmet, and that was from GB himself. I talked to him on this issue a few years back.

GB may have used a base, but I have held one and if he did, he has changed absolutely everything on it. It is a fan sculpt.

Thanks RR for the extra info....so you mean still that it is a modded DP (deluxe or CA?)....and not a sculpture from scratch, correct? Not clear from the comment about it being a fan sculpt...

 

[SithLord]

OH MY GOD... where do you come up with this ****? You must be very fortunate to have such excellent 360 degree reference of the ANH original to make such claims. Well, I'm gonna do something that I often ask of others: *put up or shut up* and I'll leave it to people to decide for themselves.

Actually just 90 degrees, but that does the trick....

 

[SithLord]

Just playing with the camera again....my TD ANH copy...

 

[RBJ]

Actually it is pretty easy to beat if you know something about authentic castings...

I put the answer in the tree, maybe you two should consult it.
.

Edited to play nice...but don't push me.

..Oh good lord...more condescending nonsense...step down of your high horse and smell the s h i t your shoveling...

don't push me? lollollollollollollol

Just put the TD and SL at the top of your tree already so we can move on...

 

[SithLord]

That's a nice way of saying don't get personal about things, and I'll play fair. I don't mind discussing details, or hearing counter arguments with something to back it up apart from the usual blather, but if people get unnecessarily personal then that accomplishes nothing.

So listen to yourself first and then tell me who is the arrogant one.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Yawn! Another set of grainy pictures.

Yes, clearly the TM doesn't have the "bunny ears". These features depend heavily on how you light them and photograph them. It's very easy to get them to not show up in photographs.

Compare with Tantive:

Let's see the comparison again. Oh wait... it's there as well... and exactly like it is seen on the Tantive.

Jet Beetle posted this in the M.A.S.H thread. Hope he doesn't mind me quoting it here.

Back and to the left..
Back and to the left..
Back and to the left..

With all these flaws you present on your TM copy... I'm wondering why you bother when you've been told time and time again that it was a faulty cast. I'm beginning to see just how faulty.

Go ahead, prove your point with more grainy pictures. I don't waste time posting grainy pictures. I post things pretty clear for everyone to see - no need to strain the eyes to see the details.

If the neck extension wasn't added when the ILM mold was made, why would you think that it existed before then on the original ANH? When would that be? During ANH? There's nothing to suggest that, Carsten, but everything suggests it is an ESB feature.

You keep indicating that the neck extension should have existed prior to the molding. Or even after. It was a temporary addition added to the helmet when it was molded, just like the filler in the chin vent and filler behind the teeth grill. It just baffles me how you argument that it isn't a UK mold feature because you didn't see it in ANH. It was a feature added for molding that was REMOVABLE. So why the hell would you see it on the helmet in ANH?

The grills are there on the SL. I said that already Carsten.

Funny, you used to say that the grills had been removed from the helmet prior to molding it for the SL mold. Or are you now saying that that feature was removed from the SL copies? So, which is it? If it is a feature that was removed from the copies, then I hope the buyers are aware of it, as most I've talked to expected a perfect copy and you've confirmed to me before that they were untampered with copies of the original.
Just found where you stated that:

But this is one big surprise to me I didn't expect.....there's no grill impression on the mask behind the teeth.

So which is it?

Just saw the rear neck pictures of the SL and TD. Just looks like the TD was cut round at the bottom tip, where the SL goes further down to a point, with otherwise the bottom and back lining up.

Even have one that lines up even better with more details on both pieces lining up fairly nice:

 

[runnriottt]

Thanks RR for the extra info....so you mean still that it is a modded DP (deluxe or CA?)....and not a sculpture from scratch, correct? Not clear from the comment about it being a fan sculpt...

The GB is a fan sculpt. At least his latest. While on holiday last time stateside, (and when I picked up my TD and SPFX) I got a chance to hold one. Really, the GB is a totaly diffrent helmet... I dont see a base at all. i could be wrong however. GB is a stand up guy, I am sure he would sort it out.

Here is a comp shot from that trip.

GB, DPDLX, TD, SPFX.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

GB confirmed on SithTrainingTemple that his source was the hollywoodprops helmet.
http://hollywoodprop.com/vaderhelmets.htm
Their helmet just looks like someone vac-formed a Don Post and then created their helmet from that vac-formed shell.

Not sure of his latest versions.

Oh... you should make the chin vent larger and straighten the upper edge on that SPFX... the guy who did that work must have done it while being drunk.

 

[vader71]

The
The grills are there on the SL. I said that already Carsten.

VS.

For those that do not follow Carsten link:

The Prop Den Mar 9, 2008 in the thread SL ANH Darth Vader Helmet

But this is one big surprise to me I didn't expect.....there's no grill impression on the mask behind the teeth.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

SL, I see you posted TM pictures - though removed them. Hope you cleared those with TM or the TM group like I did with the ones I've posted. If not, can we expect to see SL and TD owners to post pictures of their helmets without having to clear it with you first? Is that how we are doing things now? If that's the case: TD and SL owners - post away.

But I understand completely why they don't get involved. They don't need this ****. In fact, neither do I. So far I have not seen anything close to that level of accuracy from the TD or the SL. I only have SL's word... there's no one else to corroborate the story... and that... in all good detective work means insufficient confirmation. You need at least 2 or 3 sources individually corroborating a story - with the TM... we have that confirmation. But absolutely nothing from the TD or SL. Personally, this is a waste of my time. Have fun.

 

[Trap Joe]

The SL and TM compared to the Tantive IV...

RAW images above of the masks, below the closeup of the scar area. NO alteration to the images.

And here with just an increase in the unsharp mask to the bottom three images equally...that's it...the lower part of the C-scar on the TM is higher up than on the original ANH, which means there was some kind of change to the front cheek face...

And for those bright-eyed ones who would say oh look at all that detail on the TM, well you might then realize that all that stuff isn't all supposed to be there, otherwise you would have the kind of detail that you see on the SL below which confirms that this is the way the C-scar was during the Tantive IV scenes...the TM just doesn't have the quality of these details, which means a lot of that schmutz on that front cheek face came later...or there was some kind of wear on that area and that's why you don't see details like these below...

Nothing out there has this kind of ANH detail....

Now that being said, the TM still does have a lot of good detail but then to say oh it is identical, oh the C-scar is identical, oh this is the closest thing to the original ANH....well sorry that's not the case. And I'm not doing this to tear down the TM I'm just saying that you have to put the details in context.


Edited to play nice and because I'm assuming from the response that Carsten got the point...

The C-scar and all the other details of the "TM" Darth Vader facemask are 100% correct.
(And they are not a little bit smaller than the original as well)

.

 

[CSMacLaren]

GB confirmed on SithTrainingTemple that his source was the hollywoodprops helmet.
http://hollywoodprop.com/vaderhelmets.htm
Their helmet just looks like someone vac-formed a Don Post and then created their helmet from that vac-formed shell.

Not sure of his latest versions.

Oh... you should make the chin vent larger and straighten the upper edge on that SPFX... the guy who did that work must have done it while being drunk.

The Hollywood Props mask is too symmetrical for it to really be a Don Post Deluxe, even modified. The cheek lines are too straight, and the eyes are too symmetrical. The mouth walls are too thick. It looks more like someone tried to modify a Don Post Standard. If the "tell" that it might be a DP DLX is the mounting system then even the mounting system looks sloppy.

If it ever were a DP DLX, the modifications are hardly improvements.

 

[CSMacLaren]

As Vader 71 and Carsten pointed out:

So does the SL have grill marks or does it not?

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Personally, I'm done. I have no further desire to drag these helmets through the mud anymore just because I disagree with what SL is claiming. I have no desire to continue this debacle and I apologize to all for being responsible for dragging the thread in this direction.

The helmets don't deserve this ****. We don't deserve this ****. And personally, I've got better things to do. And this... is a waste of my time.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Carsten, don't apologize for bringing the things to light that you have, especially about the TM. It does give some credence that all of the OT helmets could have POSSIBLY come from the same mold. I am always thankful for new knowledge, and this thread brought it in spades. Not just to me, but every Vader fan who will read it.

 

[runnriottt]

Vader will always have the "Bigger shlong policy" surrounding it. Sad. Such a good thread that as usual headed south over a stupid point.

The SL and the TD is a kick ass helmets for those that have em. Not many exist. Same is said with the TM. As are Ginos, as are Stones. As are... you get the point.

Yeesh.

 

[jediweapons]

I have this one which is made by Hasbro.

I also have this one made by wilton, I believe.

 

[CSMacLaren]

Even the Hasbro Voice Changer has a lineage.

 

[runnriottt]

Oh... you should make the chin vent larger and straighten the upper edge on that SPFX... the guy who did that work must have done it while being drunk.

:lol

Actually, the dome was a PITA. To be honest, the helmet is on its second paint job and shelf duty. Worn once... Just too heavy. That was a pic from the first Day I had it. The mask was not all that hard, but the dome.. Man.. That guy must have tossed it off a bridge and down a dirt road to sand it!
:lol

This was paint up #1... Its only time in action. Damn near broke my neck.