A Darth Vader Collection and Lineage Thread....

You are like a runaway train. You are all over the place with your comments. That nonsense you show in reference to the rabbit ears is WRONG. It doesn't look anything like that and again you show how little you know.

How exactly is this wrong?

SLvsTIVcheeksintents2.jpg



Keep talking about the C scar. Yeah I know you are dying to see what the real one looks like and it doesn't look like the one on the SL. If you really knew what it looked like you wouldn't be arguing with me about it. Your biggest problem is your ego. You can't have anyone tell you like it is.

When was the original ANH mask repainted? You didn't answer my question.

You didn't inform the TM owners about anything. We've been studying the TM ever since Tom got it and we've done quite well without you. That bothers you doesn't it? That we never included you in the TM group discussions. I know you cried about it for years and still do. So sorry little man, get over it already. No one trusts you. That's the reality of it. You are not a straight shooter. You never have been.

Ahh, thanks. I see that what I say among certain of you certainly gets to all of you in no time. Thanks for confirming that.

You seem to have to resort to being rude to make your point. Typical.

You also seem to forget why I have a TM casting in the first place.

And I can see that the discussions still seem to go nowhere.

You are a coward. Put your money where your big mouth is. I'll show the comp of the rabbit ears against your blurry crap. If I can prove the TM is superior to the SL in just that ONE detail, since you've put such an emphasis on it and claiming no other faceplate has it better or even has it, ,

What nonsense are you talking about? you haven't even shown the rabbit ears on the TM at the resolution I show.

And if I'm so wrong about everything why are you the one getting personal and upset? You behave no differently than when you religiously defended SPFX. And you were wrong about him and his castings.


you give up your membership here on the RPF. If I can't, I lose mine. It's time to put up or shut up Oh Lord of the Sith. What's it gonna be? Are you man enough to stand by your comments or will you bow out like a coward?


To be trying to negotiate terms such as those belie who has less than normal stature.

Do I tell you to shut up? Do I call you a little man? Do I imply you are a coward?

You sure set a fine example for a TM casting owner...
 
I have one better than that. I've already offered to have a vader summit meeting at C5. I'll bring the TM and others can bring whatever faceplate they want and a few of us can compare them without the bravado of the online personas.


BS. You guys had every opportunity to discuss castings and you blew it.

Go find someone else' fool.
 
I could point out a multitude of details that match the TM, but notice that little bump on the end.

SLANHleftcheekdetailcf1bc.jpg



Well it clearly is not on the SL, but yep, you guessed it, it's on the TM.

I could go on all day long pointing out details on the TM that are not on the SL, but it's really not important and steers the thread off track further than it already is.

Wrong again.

All three masks, the SL, the TD and the TM, the same angle, the same distance, and the same lighting as anyone can clearly see from the exact extent of the shadow from the upper tusk tube cast upon the side of the cheek corner (obviously the TD is more contrasty because of the black paint). And this is without any image manipulation, these are all raw images. Would you like to see the result for the TM?

TDvsSLvsTMLcheekcf3b1.jpg


No you probably don't because you are the one who doesn't want to see it. But I invite you to show me something better...

And there is no flaw on my TM copy in this area either.
 
And if I'm so wrong about everything why are you the one getting personal and upset? You behave no differently than when you religiously defended SPFX. And you were wrong about him and his castings.

AA anyone?:rolleyes

Yeah, I remember how you privately asked me for photos of the SPFX I had because you said you wanted to study them. You tried to befriend me for the pics and then posted them without my permission, much like you have done with the TM. You also stood behind and aggressively argued that the GH ANH was a casting of the original. Look who's calling the kettle black.:confused

I'm not answering questions you clearly don't have the answer to. Nice try there. And you know as well as I do, that no matter what I say you will have a counter answer, a delusional one I may add.

You are asking questions of me when you haven't even answered the questions in my first post. None of them. Nice try on the misdirection.

Come on give it up will ya? You clearly don't know what that "rabbit ear" detail is suppose to look like. I laugh every time you draw those squiggly lines.

I do take it personal, as should everyone else that reads this thread with your grandstanding. In the beginning you were talking down to practically the entire vader community, like your word is the authority on vader.

In private, your pms are completely different. You acknowledge more positive things about the TM, but in public you come across as a pompous ass just trying to bring it down.

You stated you wanted this thread to be a community thread, but yet every single time, EVERY SINGLE TIME, someone posts something that you don't agree with, you go on the attack or say it's mundane or just outright become disrespectful. This thread has been all about you and the TD and SL. Nothing more. It could have been a very useful thread, one that could have been archived, but at this point it might as well be deleted.

Clearly by your answers, you have bowed out from the challenge. So I'm done here.
 
At this point, I would have liked to call people's attention to a pattern here as a warning to newcomers.

Past 20+ page threads show SithLord's runaway train myopia, supposition and self-conflicting statements. In general, after finally losing a discussion, he waits 3-6 months for the dust to settle and for people to forget the details of the debate before starting a new thread. Then the new thread devolves into 20+ pages of erroneous and misleading comparisons, exploitation of images, etc. Some threads even start out seemingly innocently by him saying he's not stating anything as fact but is simply thinking out loud and is curious.

At the end of all threads, what is revealed time and again is a psychopathic obsession to promote his possessions above that of others, and it should be noted that many major arguments took place prior to or concurrent to a private run of his masks, and that it was vital for buyers to believe in the superiority of their investments.

Also characteristic of SithLord in the past has been his covering his tracks through, for example, removing all posted images which renders past threads of limited use whereupon newcomers cannot learn of his past performance to understand his present motivations. Newcomers don't have the time to look back and track what was said and done, and the enormity of what he says is difficult to wade through without images. They thus don't know his failed track record. They have to rely on long-timers who remember sufficiently... but they themselves have to fight an ever-changing story.

Take this for example: Simple things like "Why did you say the SL had no grill marks when you first acquired the SL... only now to state it has grill marks when leveraging it to a greater height of prestige and recognition?" But that question is evaded and then drowned out with defiance and intimidation, distracting the core issue with oodles of grainy closeups that are subject to interpretation.

I seldom agree with Qui-Gonzalez, nor am I friends with him, but as SL has lumped me together with him - after asking Gonz to give SL a chance in the "What is GINO's ANH" thread, I don't have to look at the AA/SDS thread but at so many prior The Prop Den threads in which this ego, insecurity and insanity has been allowed to run amok and ruin the hobby for everyone.

People should not confuse arrogant, haughty defiance for truth. It's merely assuming a superior posture to defend against an inferior supposition.

This is the individual who has made factual statements on behalf of Brian Muir who apparently had to participate online - and even address the misinformation in his book.

So let me repost this and ask SithLord WHY the discrepancy between what he originally said versus what he's saying at present:



So, SithLord, why don't you actually answer the question rather than lash out at people? I mean, it must be down-putting to have invested $6,000 in the SL but knowing that a 20th Century has grill marks where the SL does not. Why don't you actually answer the question instead of daring me to show some TM feature or to answer your taunts?

"B.S.?" You're too predictable. I'm done here.
 
..so...does the SL have a grill imprint?

do the copies?

not really interested in condescending replies or squiggly lines at this point...
 
This thread is SO predictable Thomas, I'll leave you to debate yourself I think, good luck.

Over and out !!!
 
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Does the TM have this detal?

No.

VadANHLdetailtwincircles1b.jpg



I could show so many details like this that the TM doesn't have. And I have yet to see anyone actually try to show me better detail than I have shown from the SL.

You guys can cry all you like, but when it comes to backing it up with photos you have no idea what ANH accurate detail is like.
 
AA anyone?:rolleyes

Yeah, I remember how you privately asked me for photos of the SPFX I had because you said you wanted to study them. You tried to befriend me for the pics and then posted them without my permission, much like you have done with the TM. You also stood behind and aggressively argued that the GH ANH was a casting of the original. Look who's calling the kettle black.:confused

BS. I never tried to befriend you. I simply asked for the photos. Show me emails that I tried to be your "friend".

You sent me 31 photos. Why don't you show me where I posted them? The one closeup of the nosebridge I showed, but that was posted before by you anyway, that's why I asked for them. Duh! The others were useless.

Here is your email. Simply a reply to my simple request. No attempt to BEFRIEND. So leave your lies to yourself.

SPFX Photos you asked forThursday, May 14, 2005
From: "Blesk" <>
To: SL

Hi Thomas,

I've included a file with several shots of my SPFX ANH helmet as you asked for. I'm sure you'll find them helpful in your study.


Peace,

Pete

You are the one who wanted a Vader reference DVD from me. So? Who got all the photos?


I'm not answering questions you clearly don't have the answer to. Nice try there. And you know as well as I do, that no matter what I say you will have a counter answer, a delusional one I may add.

I show photographic evidence. You show nothing. And I can easily show the TM detail that I show next to that of the SL or TD and I think I should at this point since you are so recalcitrant.

You are asking questions of me when you haven't even answered the questions in my first post. None of them. Nice try on the misdirection.

Come on give it up will ya? You clearly don't know what that "rabbit ear" detail is suppose to look like. I laugh every time you draw those squiggly lines.

I specified the detail. I identified it and I show it clearly and I outline what I am showing. If you mean something else then show it! But what I show is nothing like on the TM.

YOU ASKED ONE QUESTION:
Can you tell me what that detail is suppose to look like?

AND I ADDRESSED EVERYTHING IN YOUR POST. GO BACK AND READ MY ANSWER.

SLvsTMrabbitdetailcheek1c.jpg


No comparison. Ok? So get off of it with your nonsense. This is the detail I MEAN.


I do take it personal, as should everyone else that reads this thread with your grandstanding. In the beginning you were talking down to practically the entire vader community, like your word is the authority on vader.

It isn't. But you guys simply don't listen, don't pay attention, and obviously don't study ANH details thoroughly enough and when I TRY TO SHOW YOU YOU CRY ABOUT ME SHOWING TM DETAIL.

In private, your pms are completely different. You acknowledge more positive things about the TM, but in public you come across as a pompous ass just trying to bring it down.

How many times did I compliment the TM in this thread? GO BACK AND READ THEM.

You TM owners are the pompus ones thinking the TM is the ultimate ANH and it isn't. And it is easy to show why. And I can and I will.

You stated you wanted this thread to be a community thread, but yet every single time, EVERY SINGLE TIME, someone posts something that you don't agree with, you go on the attack or say it's mundane or just outright become disrespectful. This thread has been all about you and the TD and SL. Nothing more. It could have been a very useful thread, one that could have been archived, but at this point it might as well be deleted.

It is only TM owners that are complaining here. One after the another is taking their turn.

I made a lineage because someone brought up the idea. And I put the helmets where I think they belong and I've justified it and presented so many reasons for it I fail to see why you TM owners keep harping on it.

Clearly by your answers, you have bowed out from the challenge. So I'm done here.

Not by a long shot especially since you offer nothing of a challenge.
 
Here we go again with yet ANOTHER TM HELMET OWNER. God almighty, you guys are just incessant.


At this point, I would have liked to call people's attention to a pattern here as a warning to newcomers.

Past 20+ page threads show SithLord's runaway train myopia, supposition and self-conflicting statements. In general, after finally losing a discussion, he waits 3-6 months for the dust to settle and for people to forget the details of the debate before starting a new thread. Then the new thread devolves into 20+ pages of erroneous and misleading comparisons, exploitation of images, etc. Some threads even start out seemingly innocently by him saying he's not stating anything as fact but is simply thinking out loud and is curious.

I don't need you to psychoanalyze me Mac. You are so insulting and condescending. I don't see anywhere here that I am losing all I see are TM owners complaining, baiting me, and providing no photographic evidence to back up their claims. Nor do they even address details I show clearly on the original ANH as being also on their TM to PROVE that is is ANH as they so wish it to be.

At the end of all threads, what is revealed time and again is a psychopathic obsession to promote his possessions above that of others, and it should be noted that many major arguments took place prior to or concurrent to a private run of his masks, and that it was vital for buyers to believe in the superiority of their investments.

No, this always devolves because I get asked WHY I THINK THE TD IS EARLY or WHY I THINK THE TM IS ESB AND NOT ANH. I make every fricken effort to address those questions in a reasonable manner! And I get your stupid posts about how I am behaving?

And what kind of nonsense are you talking about? How many TM masks were sold and how many TM owners are in MY THREAD messing around with my attempt to make a simple lineage?

Also characteristic of SithLord in the past has been his covering his tracks through, for example, removing all posted images which renders past threads of limited use whereupon newcomers cannot learn of his past performance to understand his present motivations.

I remove them because I'm sick of your nonsense. I can easily put them all back Mac and in case you didn't notice I've done that in a few major threads on TPD. But I also had problems with my image host which is HUGE and was slowed down by the volume of images I host.

And I invite anyone to go back and read anything I've posted and judge me by that. But if you are going to insult me based on what I've tried to contribute to the Vader community then I really don't care what you think because you do nothing constructive with your posts except try to insult me! When the F did I do that to you Mac? When do I try to insult you in your endless threads about sculpting or reworking a helmet? I don't put you down in your threads so what are you doing here to me?


Newcomers don't have the time to look back and track what was said and done, and the enormity of what he says is difficult to wade through without images. They thus don't know his failed track record. They have to rely on long-timers who remember sufficiently... but they themselves have to fight an ever-changing story.

ANYONE HERE IS FREE TO ASK ME ANYTHING AND I WILL EXPLAIN IT. I stand by everything I've ever posted in the past. I take responsibility for what I post and I take every effort to be clear and up front about what I am explaining about anything in regard to Vader and you guys always turn it into a circus claiming I have an agenda or something ridiculous like that.

Failed track record? About what? Honestly, if you really want to go there, then I will pull out all the stops on the TM vs TD vs SL arguments we've had before on TPD. If that's what you want.

Take this for example: Simple things like "Why did you say the SL had no grill marks when you first acquired the SL... only now to state it has grill marks when leveraging it to a greater height of prestige and recognition?" But that question is evaded and then drowned out with defiance and intimidation, distracting the core issue with oodles of grainy closeups that are subject to interpretation.


Jeez, Mac, I answered the question!!!

POST #348 READ IT AGAIN FOR PETE'S SAKE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSMacLaren

So does the SL have grill marks or does it not?



Well the question would be, did the original ANH mask have the grills in it when the ILM mold was taken and the answer is yes. But on the SL it is extremely difficult to make them out because of the amount of material covering them. So anyone looking at them wouldn't be able to tell there were grills, but the original did have them. The grills would look nothing like what you see on the UK side of the lineage as they were almost completely covered up as opposed to material just oozing through the grill to fill it.

THE SL ANH HAS THE GRILLS BUT THEY ARE OBSCURED OK. HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND ENGLISH FOR YOU MAC.


I seldom agree with Qui-Gonzalez, nor am I friends with him, but as SL has lumped me together with him - after asking Gonz to give SL a chance in the "What is GINO's ANH" thread, I don't have to look at the AA/SDS thread but at so many prior The Prop Den threads in which this ego, insecurity and insanity has been allowed to run amok and ruin the hobby for everyone.

Funny you refer to me as SL here but Thomas in all our PMs. You are so two-faced. You are so friendly in PMs with me and respectful but on the forum it is like WTF?

Anyone can go back in the SDS threads here and read what I wrote! Honest to God! How did I ruin the hobby Mac? What is your bloody problem?

Anyone can see what I've discussed at length about the SDS helmets and about the case in great detail. And I was right about the case. I was right about the fact it would go to the UK. I was right that the judge in the UK would consider it a design and not a work of art. So? I WAS RIGHT MAC. But you weren't even there for the discussions so stop being so patronizing when you were not EVEN THERE IN THE DISCUSSIONS. Do you know how stupid you look in referring back to my history and YOU WERE NOT EVEN THERE.

People should not confuse arrogant, haughty defiance for truth. It's merely assuming a superior posture to defend against an inferior supposition.

If I've done the research, and I can document what I've found, that is presenting my findings. Simple. If I am confident about that, I will try to show why as best I can. I have been nothing but up front and reasonable about that, but all I get is insults from people like you who don't take the effort to study the details. When do I say anything personal about you Mac? And how many times do you call me myopic? When do I call you something or insult you like that can you point it out for me? If I do, it is in response to your posts about me which are unkind and only serve to bait and do nothing to further this thread or offer anything in regard to substantive refutation of what I SHOW IN CLEAR HIGH MAGNIFICATION IMAGES.

This is the individual who has made factual statements on behalf of Brian Muir who apparently had to participate online - and even address the misinformation in his book.

I introduced Brian to the RPF. I introduced Brian to the Prop Den when you guys were trying to figure out if it was really him. How many times did I post something here about information that I got from Brian long before any of you knew him and you guys would do the same thing....question me and try to insult me.

Oh really? What information did Brian address in his book. I would like to know.


So let me repost this and ask SithLord WHY the discrepancy between what he originally said versus what he's saying at present:


God. You don't read do you?

Quote:
Funny, you used to say that the grills had been removed from the helmet prior to molding it for the SL mold.
Please tell me when did I say that? I never said that Carsten.

And.


SLpost348aboutthegrills.jpg


GO BACK AND READ IT.

If find it so offensive and insulting that I HAVE TO REPEAT SOMETHING I ALREADY POSTED.


So, SithLord, why don't you actually answer the question rather than lash out at people? I mean, it must be down-putting to have invested $6,000 in the SL but knowing that a 20th Century has grill marks where the SL does not. Why don't you actually answer the question instead of daring me to show some TM feature or to answer your taunts?

"B.S.?" You're too predictable. I'm done here.


Why do you TM owners continue to be so insecure you have to mention how much I paid for the SL? And it was $6300 for your information Mac.

Oh, I'm so depressed, my $6300 mask doesn't have grills and my $250 20th Century mask does! Oh woah as me! Boo-hoo hoo! :cry

Give me a break. The TD has the grills, so did the original mask when the ILM mold was taken. So does the VP ANH for that matter and the TM doesn't. So go cry about that.
 
This whole issue about the grills on the SL are an attempt by TM owners to discredit me somehow as being something I said wasn't there but now I say is there. So? Do you want to see how foolish you are?

Here is the only place on the SL ANH where I can barely make out part of the grill, in the same location as I see on the original ANH mask. So it is the original grill that was on the original when Rick Baker made the ILM mold of the mask. OK?

SLANHgrill.jpg


There's no conspiracy theory here, just it was damn hard to make it out until I did I a lot more examining.

And since you are so fond of posting what I post, let's look at it again shall we?

SLpostaboutgrillMar09.jpg



Maybe you didn't notice, Mac, when you were so fond of pointing out something that I CHANGED MY MIND ABOUT AFTER MORE STUDY that I bought the helmet on February 17th, 2008. I posted this, as can be clearly seen, on March 9th, 2008, 21 days after I won the auction. The helmet didn't arrive until March 7th, 2008. So I only had it for TWO DAYS. I even posted "There's so much I have to wrap my head around this with respect to the TD and TM....you can imagine from the photos how much there is there to examine...." And then after a cursory examination of the teeth gaps I couldn't see any grill, and I was surprised SO I SHARED THAT OBSERVATION but much later on I did find, after doing overlays of detail from the original ANH mask, that there was one single "X" at the base of a tooth gap that I didn't see before.

Honest to God, Mac, can you cut me maybe a little bit of slack? I only had the mask for two days! And I even said that there was so much to study on it! Yet, you find the need AGAIN to insult me by trying to find ONE THING, ANY SINGLE THING, that I say differently than before. Well if that is the best you can do, that is pretty pathetic.
 
So, this thread is dead now?

Evidently not but it certainly should be. The only people learning anything of value from this thread are the recasters who are being spoon fed, in glorious microscopic detail, all sorts of goodies that are missing from their product.

We have had, as a community, tremendous opportunities time and time again to work together in what could have been efforts of common enthusiasm and discovery that could have led to a deeper appreciation for this work of art that we love so much, made us better friends, and paid appropriate homage to those whose created that art.

Other threads in this forum have led to great discoveries (Obi-Wan saber and Solo blaster anyone?). Yet this thread, and too many more just like it, have been wasted by behavior I wouldn't allow from my 5 year old. In the past we have had the opportunity to engage the participation of artists and technicians like Brian Muir and Don Bies--the very men who helped create this stuff we enjoy--only to drive them off with our lunatic obsessiveness.

Mods, please, shut this embarrassing, childish, useless, train wreck of a thread down.
 
Nice misdirection tactic, Thomas. Just as I had predicted and warned everyone about.

Why don't you answer our question regarding the SL grill.

Yes, mods, please shut this thread down. It was propaganda from the start.
 


I understand lighting and angles.. and all that. But why is the TM neck so different than the one on the left? (I assume original)


Now I am all for a C5 meeting. But would it be civil? Hell.. these threads go so south, so much ego in all of it... not just one person. Could that even be a reality? I feel like some of you all would just go to blows at sight of each other.

It would be enlightening to have a prop discussion with the props in hand... If I get a chance to come I would bring my TD, although it is the least detailed of the three castings.


Damn... we lose another Vader thread to the sands of time. *Sigh*
 
I understand lighting and angles.. and all that. But why is the TM neck so different than the one on the left? (I assume original)

Notice on the right some additional material. The original is shorter on that side. When the ESB mold was made off the screen-used ANH, some clay was used as a neck extension. If you study the ESB screenused production masks, they are longer on that side. On top of that, you are also seeing some perspective distortion due to different photographic distances.
 
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