4 foot Jupiter 2 - Anyone know how the gear worked

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y3a

Well-Known Member
I just acquired a 4 foot hull 2nd generation cast of the LIS Jupiter 2. While I have most all the photos, and even a DVD that shows the remains of what was inside, I was wondering if any source exists (like a drawing) of the landing gear rigging inside the model. I know it used some sort of pully system, as the footpad doors are also opened this way, but I would like to know how the original Hero was set up.

I'm building mine as it looked in "The Derelict" episode. I already know how the fusion core and bubble lights work, and have started planning the cockpit and figures, but instead of having to design a system to work the gear I was hoping somebody actually knew.
 

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toyroy

Active Member
Hey Guy,

Sorry to say, I don't have the info you're looking for. But, I'm also interested. That was a cool landing gear.
 

Jupiter-2

New Member
Originally posted by BrundelFly@Dec 5 2005, 02:25 PM
PM sent.

I have what you need.
[snapback]1128894[/snapback]​
IF you're handing them out ... :confused

:love
 
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y3a

Well-Known Member
Just HAVING the legs and footpads is one thing, but the mechanics of sliding the footpad doors open, and then dropping the gearlegs into position and them being able to support the saucer when it's lowered to the ground is another.

My test model, a 2 foot Lunar Models Jupiter 2 can't quite support itself with the current RC battery. When I add the 2000mAh battery, it should, since for that model the servos actually hold the model up.

I am planning for a diferent system for the 4 foot job. The footpad doors will work almost like the original Hero, but the gear legs themselves, I may try something based on the SFM model.

It's a shame that the originals were gutted and used for SCENERY in "City Beneath the Sea"
and in the mean time some of the parts walked, and the guys that built and rigged it were gone too.


Nice to see YOU here Jupiter 2.
 

toyroy

Active Member
With respect to the problem of the deployed gear holding up, you might consider using a single-thread worm and gear. They are very commonly used in electric train drives, especially in the smaller scales. You'll note that the wheels cannot be turned by hand, yet they run very smoothly, under power.
 

toyroy

Active Member
Originally posted by y3a@Dec 14 2005, 12:56 PM
Just HAVING the legs and footpads is one thing, but the mechanics of sliding the footpad doors open, and then dropping the gearlegs into position and them being able to support the saucer when it's lowered to the ground is another.
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I don't have high-enough quality video to properly study the footpad door operation. It appears to me, that the doors have two motions: they pull straight back from the hull surface, then slide laterally. How does it look to you?

As for synching the operations, at this point I'm looking at using cams and followers. With the space you have, a similar rotary electric switch could be used. But, I agree: I'd love to know how it was done originally, in the hero.
 

y3a

Well-Known Member
I "Think" they used a thin chain rigged thru 9-12 pully wheels around the perimiter of the saucer. It was pulled back n forth by some sort of motor/gearbox. The chain went under the 'cockpit'. The pad doors are on slightly inclined sliding frames and one end of the pad door is beveled some for clearance. I think they used a spring return to close the doors again. You can see the pully wheels at the tip of the gear 'arm' and in the gear well, so the cable pulled them into place - probably with some sort of slack built in so the doors would open first before the gear dropped, and after they were up again. I need to flip the image of the top of the model to verify the positions of 3 mounting spots(?) that could be for the gear as well. If they are aligned with the gear I say we have another piece of the puzzle intact.

I have read 'somewhere' that the 3 wires supporting the model went to a control box. This was for the gear raising & Lowering. One support wire was ground, and teh other two were hots for different circuits. I think the lights were supposed to be powered from large 6v batteries mounted inside, and 2 platforms inside the Hero DO suggest that.


The lightshows in the model changed over the course of the show. The first few shots show 6 lightbulbs spinning inside the fusion core, and later 1 and then 2 were burned out. The Hero used for the Pod dropping sequence seemed to have a chaser, and pictures of this fusion core are on the web for all to see.

The bubble had a common drive shaft in the early version(as seen in "The Derelict" episode) that connected the spinning lights in the core to a reflective circle of tin(?) bent into a "V" shape and lit by 6 light bulbs from well under the "Spinner". the 3 top hatches work on the Hero but the one closest to the 'door' on the side doesn't appear to give acces to the inner workings.

I hope to have more answers soon...
 

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toyroy

Active Member
Originally posted by y3a@Dec 15 2005, 04:48 AM
I "Think" they used a thin chain rigged thru 9-12 pully wheels around the perimiter of the saucer. It was pulled back n forth by some sort of motor/gearbox.  The chain went under the 'cockpit'.  The pad doors are on slightly inclined sliding frames and one end of the pad door is beveled some for clearance.  I think they used a spring return to close the doors again.  You can see the pully wheels at the tip of the gear 'arm' and in the gear well, so the cable pulled them into place - probably with some sort of slack built in so the doors would open first before the gear dropped, and after they were up again...
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Firstly, thank you very much, for sharing this.

From what you have described, this is how I figure the landing gear worked: the pad door springs were set to open the doors, and there were return springs to retract the gear legs. This way, deploying or retracting, there would be tension on the gear leg chain in one direction.

From the retracted position, the closing tension would first be let go, and the doors would open. Then, as the tension shifts, the gear legs would be pulled down, until a stop is hit. The cable and drive gears would lock the gear down.

From the deployed position, as opening tension is relaxed, the gear legs retract themselves first, then the tension shifts, and the doors are pulled shut.

This is just a hypothesis, of course.
 

toyroy

Active Member
Originally posted by y3a@Dec 15 2005, 04:48 AM
The pad doors are on slightly inclined sliding frames and one end of the pad door is beveled some for clearance.
[snapback]1136353[/snapback]​
From your statement, and the Azarian photo, it sounds like the doors simply slid open and closed. If you would, please describe more precisely where the clearance bevel is.

Also, when the doors are fully closed, are they flush with the hull surface?
 

Jupiter-2

New Member
Originally posted by toyroy+Dec 16 2005, 04:39 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(toyroy @ Dec 16 2005, 04:39 PM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-y3a
@Dec 15 2005, 04:48 AM
The pad doors are on slightly inclined sliding frames and one end of the pad door is beveled some for clearance.
[snapback]1136353[/snapback]​
From your statement, and the Azarian photo, it sounds like the doors simply slid open and closed. If you would, please describe more precisely where the clearance bevel is.

Also, when the doors are fully closed, are they flush with the hull surface?
[snapback]1137320[/snapback]​
[/b]
Personally , I am very impressed that you can extract all these intricate details just from old photographs and video. :eek

I'd love to be able to see your video analysis and renderings in person to see how you do it. :confused

I find it most fascinating. :thumbsup
 
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Jupiter-2

New Member
Originally posted by toyroy+Dec 16 2005, 04:12 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(toyroy @ Dec 16 2005, 04:12 PM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-y3a
@Dec 15 2005, 04:48 AM
I "Think" they used a thin chain rigged thru 9-12 pully wheels around the perimiter of the saucer. It was pulled back n forth by some sort of motor/gearbox.  The chain went under the 'cockpit'.  The pad doors are on slightly inclined sliding frames and one end of the pad door is beveled some for clearance.  I think they used a spring return to close the doors again.  You can see the pully wheels at the tip of the gear 'arm' and in the gear well, so the cable pulled them into place - probably with some sort of slack built in so the doors would open first before the gear dropped, and after they were up again...
[snapback]1136353[/snapback]​
Firstly, thank you very much, for sharing this.

From what you have described, this is how I figure the landing gear worked: the pad door springs were set to open the doors, and there were return springs to retract the gear legs. This way, deploying or retracting, there would be tension on the gear leg chain in one direction.

From the retracted position, the closing tension would first be let go, and the doors would open. Then, as the tension shifts, the gear legs would be pulled down, until a stop is hit. The cable and drive gears would lock the gear down.

From the deployed position, as opening tension is relaxed, the gear legs retract themselves first, then the tension shifts, and the doors are pulled shut.

This is just a hypothesis, of course.
[snapback]1137306[/snapback]​
[/b]

Here is a glimpse of the foot pad door , slide rail and pulley that operated the rear landing gear :



Does this help?

What can you decipher from this?
 
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toyroy

Active Member
Originally posted by Jet Beetle@Dec 16 2005, 08:50 AM
any pics of the 4footer -- I'd love to see what one looks like.
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Try the link in post #8 above, and also Mike's Jup2.com site.
 

y3a

Well-Known Member
I have extracted the video file from a copy of the Jupiter 2 Autopsy, and used a "Sharpen" filter on it using Apples Final Cut application. The more I look at it The more the door HAS to be spring loaded to close. The angle of the ramp make it need a bevel on the door side closest to the ramp. either that or the initial tug on the cable pulld the door up as well. perhaps the ramps used to pivot?

The legs were pulled by cable into the down position, so they used a spring for the return. I hope to work on my 5 layered Photoshop thing showing positions and all and side illustrations of the disimilar gear well sides etc.

I thought the Azarian J2 arrived without ANY legs, an oversized bubble, and lots of little holes all over the top.
 

toyroy

Active Member
Originally posted by Jupiter-2+Dec 16 2005, 08:55 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jupiter-2 @ Dec 16 2005, 08:55 AM)</div>
Originally posted by toyroy@Dec 16 2005, 04:39 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-y3a
@Dec 15 2005, 04:48 AM
The pad doors are on slightly inclined sliding frames and one end of the pad door is beveled some for clearance.
[snapback]1136353[/snapback]​


From your statement, and the Azarian photo, it sounds like the doors simply slid open and closed. If you would, please describe more precisely where the clearance bevel is.

Also, when the doors are fully closed, are they flush with the hull surface?
[snapback]1137320[/snapback]​
Personally , I am very impressed that you can extract all these intricate details just from old photographs and video. :eek

I'd love to be able to see your video analysis and renderings in person to see how you do it. :confused

I find it most fascinating. :thumbsup

[snapback]1137334[/snapback]​
[/b]
Hi Mike,
Are you talking to me, or Y3a?

Thanks so much, for all the great Jupiter 2 material on your site, BTW.
 
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Jupiter-2

New Member
Originally posted by y3a@Dec 16 2005, 07:38 PM
I have extracted the video file from a copy of the Jupiter 2 Autopsy, and used a "Sharpen" filter on it using Apples Final Cut application.  The more I look at it The more the door HAS to be spring loaded to close.  The angle of the ramp make it need a bevel on the door side closest to the ramp.  either that or the initial tug on the cable pulld the door up as well.  perhaps the ramps used to pivot?
Cool software toys.


Originally posted by y3a+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(y3a)</div>
The legs were pulled by cable into the down position, so they used a spring for the return.[/b]
pulled DOWN? Do you mean by interior cables or by exterior wire/cable?

Originally posted by y3a@
I hope to work on my 5 layered Photoshop thing showing positions and all and side illustrations of the disimilar gear well sides etc.
Ya , I hope you do too Y . ;)

<!--QuoteBegin-y3a

I thought the Azarian J2 arrived without ANY legs, an oversized bubble, and lots of little holes all over the top.
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So did I ... and all photos of the Hero at Icons (at least of what I have seen) show the Hero legless. Mike (micdav that posted earlier about being at Icons ) should be able to answer this one for us ... hint hint ;) I cannot decipher if Azarian had 1 reproduction leg or three . Greenwood mentions that landing gear would need to be fabricated , during the restoration process, the one leg on the museum link is an obvious fabrication and not original .. whether that was one of Greenwoods and if it was 1 of 3 I don't know.

It's pretty moot now since Azarian has since purchased at least TWO of the original landing gear , not sure if he has the third or not ...

The bubble , original one that is , was obviously lost during the City Beneath The Sea Massacre and like the leg(s) inferior fabrication in it's place.

While were at it , the fusion core on it at Icons was a fabricated one too. Not sure if Azarian purchased the original core or not when he purchased the landing gear.... actually , no he did not - because it sits right now at the bottom of Space Needle.

All this stuff is why he doesn't permit me to post images from link in Post #8 on Jup2.com .

Not sure to what you are refering to when you say "lots of little holes all over the top" ... ?
 
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toyroy

Active Member
Originally posted by y3a@Dec 16 2005, 11:38 AM
The more I look at it The more the door HAS to be spring loaded to close. 
[snapback]1137458[/snapback]​
You may be right, but then the doors would tend to close before, or during, the gear retraction. What would hold them open?
 

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