1/350 TOS E is happening.

I doubt we will ever see a Smoothie from R2. Jamie has already said he wanted the grids and he listened to all the talk on the forums about it. R2 knows there are people out there that did not want them. The kit has them, and that's all we are going to get.

The topic of gridlines has been beaten to death over the last year on other forums. The kit is out (almost), we have grids, build it with grids or fill them in. Those are the only options at this point.
 
I really don't see the big deal with them really... Its such a simple matter to fill and sand smooth. I really think people are just aginst or for them based on hte "principle" rather than any model building issue. What I really find kind of amusing about it, is many of the same people that complain about the grid lines are people that will spend untold hours scratching tiny details, applying photo etch, getting and placing aftermarket decals that are 0.001% more accurate than a kits decals, etc., etc. but whine about spending a couple of hours filling and sanding these tiny lines out of their kit.

For the record I'd want it smooth but, I'm not gonna complain about it :cool:thumbsup

Jedi Dade
 
A CAD file is only a start as there is also the cost of the tool and the expense involved with producing it and making sure it integrates properly with the other parts (such as the inside saucer molds). For the price they would end up having the charge for new saucer parts, not many people would end up buying it when only a few dollars for a bottle/tube of filler putty, primer, sanding films and some elbow grease could achieve the same result.

I think I already just kinda said all this.
 
What I really find kind of amusing about it, is many of the same people that complain about the grid lines are people that will spend untold hours scratching tiny details, applying photo etch, getting and placing aftermarket decals that are 0.001% more accurate than a kits decals, etc., etc. but whine about spending a couple of hours filling and sanding these tiny lines out of their kit.

Jedi Dade


LOL--too true and I'm Guilty!
 
I agree Jedi Dade. I think what it boils down to is people are upset that R2 chose to represent the lines on the 11 footer as an engraved grid instead of leaving it up to the builder to draw the lines with a pencil. We know there are "lines" on the 11 footer. I'm glad they are there. I don't think I want to take the time to draw these on.
 
What are you smoking?......they are not going to ruin an already made mold and grind raised grid lines off......my idea is they make a new molds for the saucer parts minus the grid lines and sell them as a separate accessory. I really don't know the costs of making such a mold. They certainly already have all the cads done to machine duplicate ones......all they'd have to do is remove the grid lines in the computer. Weather its cost effective depends on how many people would buy them. Besides its just an idea and I honestly doubt they'd do it.

The costs of a mould are astronomical.
 
I think i will use latex on the details i want to keep then spray it with 4-5 heavy coats of high build primer and then sand it down to plastic and repeat until they are gone or just slightly visible. They really look like big grooves to me in the modelman video. I kinda wished they went with ultra thin raised lines. Something we could have just sanded off.
 
Well this is all just peeing in the wind since what's done is done.

We won't really know what we're in for until we have the thing in our hot little hands. So far, only two people have had their hands on one of these kits and had anything to say about it publicly: E. James Small's account of his build-ups for Wonderfest in Sci-Fi and Fantasy Modeller #26 page 57 as well as Modelman-Tom's comments. Nether of them had positive things to say about the grid lines, or the process of filling them in, which is part of why we're still seeing a residual concern. The photos we're seeing aren't helping much either because it's too difficult to tell what is going on.

Everything about this kit is so fricking fantastic and the engineering behind it is phenomenal. The fact that Round2 shared this process with us is even more amazing and engaging. It just seems weird that as much care as they gave to all of the compromises that had to be made the way they've rationalized themselves into this decision -- but that is no doubt due to my being on the opposite end of the decision.

I've come to see the kit as a representation of the ship as it appears in "Trials and Tribble-ations" rather than having anything to do with TOS--as Jamie Hood explains it the kit is an amalgam of all the variations the ship has gone through.

They're there. We gotta deal with it. But that doesn't mean we have to like it.
 
No one should buy these so they go on clearence and I can afford to build an entire fleet!
 
Check out this vid from Steve Neill SteveNeillsGarage93 - YouTube
he mentions the Tulip brand fabric paint he used to replace rivets on the Nautilus builds. It's a thick acrylic paint, that he also used to fill gaps and light leaks. This stuff might be good for the grid lines, just fill 'em in and squeegee off the excess.
 
All they have to do is pickup the offsets of the mold and run a high speed carbide bit using a program to knock off the grid lines. Or make a carbon electrode and EDM the saucer with no grid lines. Then they would repolish the the cavity. It most likely made of 4140 and isn't heat treated since it isn't a dye cast metal mold.
Molds are changed all the time.

Scot
 
...So far, only two people have had their hands on one of these kits and had anything to say about it publicly: E. James Small's account of his build-ups for Wonderfest in Sci-Fi and Fantasy Modeller #26 page 57 as well as Modelman-Tom's comments...
Jim Small's buildups were done using the first generation prototype, which had much more pronounced grids.
...Nether of them had positive things to say about the grid lines, or the process of filling them in...
I don't recall either of them saying anything, positive or negative, about the process of filling them in.
 
Neither did I. ModelmanTom's review was showcasing the kit alone and his impressions with the grid. He didn't discuss filling them necessarily since it was more an in-box review than a buildup. He mentioned a couple ever so slight problem areas where things didn't look quite as crisp, but just remember it is the raw plastic he was looking at. He didn't have a layer of primer or paint on the parts to see how they might reduce the grid.

At Wonderfest this past year, I took a couple opportunities to look over both the built test shot that James Small did and the unbuilt one (of two) that the R2 booth had (one got raffled, one got auctioned). I wasn't trying to shoot photos of it since so many others were. Instead I was just using my own eye for detail to scrutinize what I was seeing.

I looked at the grid on the painted model and in its state back then (before two or three passes to further skinny it), it looked fine to me. Once everything was nicely blended together under the paint and with the pencil lines that Jim drew on in the recesses, it had a look I would say was equivalent to the "Trials and Tribbleations" studio model built by Greg Jein, although Jim's detailing work made them look more subtle than that. After seeing the work Jim did, I told Jamie things looked fine and they should press ahead and keep the grid, because it will come in handy for less experienced modelers. Those of us who have many Trek kits under our belts know how to address panel line issues to get them to our liking.

It sure as heck wasn't like the trench warfare etched "mall floor" tile grid that AMT did to the 1/537 Enterprise refit molds for Trek II (those grids are crude and wide by comparison). But there are modelers who have succeeded in filling that grid on their models and speaking from experience (since I made a stab at doing it myself), those grids are A LOT harder to fill than these will be IMHO. There are better filler putties out today than what I tried back then and in combination with the Tamiya standard primers (not the fine stuff) and Gunze Mr. Surfacer 500 (which are good enough to fill spiral windings on the paper tubes of rocket models), these grids can get reduced very easily, be it intentionally or unintentionally.
 
Thank you Mr Chladek for that write-up! See, now that is the kind of thoughtful considered opinion we need!

I've done the fill-in thing on the AMT re-fit (though that was 20 odd years ago), and spent hours and hours filling and sanding down the entire ship to try and get back to the smoothie, so that is a frame of reference that is useful for putting things in perspective.

I freely admit that this whole thing may very well be a tempest in a teacup. But a great number of us are still having to gauge our reactions from pictures that don't tell the full story and opinions that vary from individual to individual. Some people don't mind, others do, so maybe we should each be cutting the other some slack.

ModelmanTom did take part of his review to describe the grid pattern and ultimately concluded, I quote: "Myself, I can't say I really like 'em. But it shouldn't be too difficult to get rid of them but it's definitely going to be an intense process of a lot of puttying." (Segment 3 beginning around 1:43)

He also goes on to wonder about Mr Surfacer or other methods for filling. He also returns to the grid to discuss more filling options and critical observations at the end of the video (where he corrects his observation that a number of the lines are misaligned). It's an interesting observation because he says it shouldn't be too difficult but that it will be an intensive process at the same time -- basically, it won't be hard but it will be -- lol

As far as Mr Small's write up, page 57 of Sci-Fi Fantasy Modeller, he has a whole paragraph describing how he didn't have enough time to work on filing in the grid on his Pilot version build-up so he enlisted the help of his daughter to start it--which is really cute. From that paragraph I quote:

"Anyway, filling the lines in ended up being a lot more difficult than one might imagine, as the putty tends to sand a bit easier than the surrounding plastic, leaving a mild depression anyway, so even filled in, they are still somewhat visible. More effort spent on this operation could achieve a more satisfactory result, but I was quickly running out of time."


As to what refinements were made to the grid post-Wonderfest that is a little confusing. Reports were made that refinements might happen or that the grid might even be removed if they couldn't get them nailed. I'm assuming that they did try further refinements.

All I'm saying is that it may be a pain in the butt for some and not-so-much for others. I think that the examples I have quoted provide perfect reasons why there is so much apprehension. In all the build ups I've done of the old AMT TOS Enterprise I can't say I ever had much difficulty with attaching or aligning the nacelles so frankly whenever people go on and on about the sagging rust bucket syndrome it leaves me rather nonplussed. Trouble for some not for others.

It's extremely silly but the best analogy I can think of is it's rather like really wanting a chocolate ice cream cone. Waiting, hoping, and dreaming for decades about a chocolate ice cream cone. Then finally when you are handed one, after ages and ages of desire, you get it but they decided to put rainbow sprinkles on top because it's easier to assume that everybody will want them and if you don't you can just scrape them off. You're definitely grateful to finally have one but it's still annoying that they put the sprinkles on top.

Anyway, I think I've worked all the grid line grumpiness out of my system and who knows maybe once I take a bite I'll find that I like the sprinkles :)

Cheers,

Dave
 
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A quick follow up--Just as a general interest in discussing modelling techniques I'm still very interested to hear what methods you guys are using to solve the issue for yourselves.

Dave
 
A light smear of bondo spot glazing putty and some light sanding is my method. And to avoid the depressions that Jim mentioned - a sanding sponge should do the trick.

Altough brushing primer into the grids followed by light sanding would probably be just as effective.

Jedi Dade
 
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