Variety Article: Crisis at Marvel

I have seen a total of zero movies due to positive words from a talk show. I have not seen some things because advance word was tthat it was bad. Iha e skipped a movie due to bad marketing, too.

These days, im not going to look at advanced word anymore and havent for a while now. It is too agenda driven in general. That applies to posts, blogs, and reviews.

I have seen things that have grown on me over time. I cannot think of anything i have disliked over time though.
 
Now there's a great example of pandering. And I liked this particular bit of pandering.

Pandering doesn't inherently make a project bad, but it can if given too much importance. It can't be distracting/logic breaking.

But—if that is “pandering”…then it’s pandering to your audience and not some other audience that you don’t have and hope to capture and, in so doing, pleasing no one.

Sometimes “pandering” is as simple as “giving your audience what they want”. When did that become such a difficult thing to do, I wonder?
 
I think we need a solid definition of "pander" if we're going to discuss this any further.

Let me get something for everyone so we're all on the same page:
thediplomat_2023-04-04-175816.jpg


This is a Pander.

Okay... are we all clear on this now?
 
But—if that is “pandering”…then it’s pandering to your audience and not some other audience that you don’t have and hope to capture and, in so doing, pleasing no one.

Sometimes “pandering” is as simple as “giving your audience what they want”. When did that become such a difficult thing to do, I wonder?

well pandering has an inherently negative connotation because the desire of the audience it is satisfying is supposed to be something negative. It could be gratuitous nudity or violence. Fan service is considered bad because it is "empty calories" from a storytelling perspective.
 
But—if that is “pandering”…then it’s pandering to your audience and not some other audience that you don’t have and hope to capture and, in so doing, pleasing no one.

Sometimes “pandering” is as simple as “giving your audience what they want”. When did that become such a difficult thing to do, I wonder?
Pandering is fine, so long as the people who are willing to give you money come and see your movie and give you money. Giving your audience what they want is the basis of capitalism. However, what Hollywood is doing now is pandering to people who are not their customers, who have no interest in buying their products, they just want to complain about everything and sit at home and whine.

It's why Hollywood looks like it does today because they have picked the wrong group to pander to. They are trying to make movies for a paying audience that doesn't actually exist.
 
Pandering is fine, so long as the people who are willing to give you money come and see your movie and give you money. Giving your audience what they want is the basis of capitalism. However, what Hollywood is doing now is pandering to people who are not their customers, who have no interest in buying their products, they just want to complain about everything and sit at home and whine.

It's why Hollywood looks like it does today because they have picked the wrong group to pander to. They are trying to make movies for a paying audience that doesn't actually exist.

They have abused and misused the awesome colossal powers of the Pander Stone

IMG_1908.jpeg
 
Folks, it is not that hard to understand. The MCU is like a shark. It has to keep moving forward in order to survive.

I think what we have on our hands is a dead shark.
 
Honestly, I think the issue of “pandering” and “woke” is brought up too much. I think the fundamental issue is people are just sick of superhero movies.

The MCU has had a reign of essentially 15 years from 2008 to present where pretty much every single movie and tv show is superhero-esque. While hardcore fans may love this, the casual (which is still the majority) don’t and are just sick of it now. I remember overhearing a conversation where some people were talking about getting into the MCU. Yeah apparently the superhero movies Infinity War is good right? Yeah but there are so many movies. Where do I start so I don’t get lost? Add the bloat that is the tv shows and you are just giving more “homework” for people to understand the story. Should have been obvious when there were complaints of people not understanding why Scarlet Witch was a “bad guy” in Dr Strange because they didn’t watch the tv show and there are far more now than there were back then.

I also think 15 years just took its toll. I’m sure there are more than a handful of fans that stuck it out until Endgame and just said, “alright, I’m out.” Those fans may have stuck around for Spider-Man and Guardians because those films concluded their story in a sense but I don’t think a potential Guardians 4 or Spider-Man 4 will necessarily bring in the same crowd (well maybe Spider-Man since it is one of the most popular superheroes alongside Superman and Batman).

Finally, in just real life, the economy is on a downturn. People need to save money and now that Disney+ is a thing, if you wait a couple of months, movies in theater will come to the platform. People aren’t going to spend $100+ on tickets and popcorn for the family when they can watch it for “free” on streaming. The $1 Bn box offices were pre-Disney+ and since Disney made streaming a thing, they basically shot themselves in the foot box-office wise. I think the $1 bn box office era is effectively over now that streaming is so big (or at least until streaming implodes like cable).
 
When a selling point for upcoming productions from the MCU and Lucasfilm have explicit reference to "Diversity, Equity and Inclusion" and when you believe that character development with writing quality have gone downhill but are also dismissed as being a "bigot, racist or h***mophobe" online just for saying so (even if you didn't bring up gender, race or sexual identity) I wouldn't fault you for suspecting some pandering to a populist ideology might be at play. Of course nothing can be proven, but you can make a substantial case for it.
 
I think the biggest issue that almost all franchises suffer from is the lack of beginning, middle, and end of a story. There may be intent to wrap up plot lines within a single movie, but the hope of a franchise, prolonging a story, and going off the rails (Fast and the Furious) is pretty wide spread in both film and TV series.

Why have three or four good films/seasons with a definitive plotted out story, when you can keep the entire thing going for 17 films/seasons? Reason: $$$$$$$
 
When a selling point for upcoming productions from the MCU and Lucasfilm have explicit reference to "Diversity, Equity and Inclusion" and when you believe that character development with writing quality have gone downhill but are also dismissed as being a "bigot, racist or h***mophobe" online just for saying so (even if you didn't bring up gender, race or sexual identity) I wouldn't fault you for suspecting some pandering to a populist ideology might be at play. Of course nothing can be proven, but you can make a substantial case for it.
You can claim that "pandering" exists by trying to connect "Look, they talked up diversity" with "Look, the suits filed down all the edges of the story and now the characters are bland."

The thing that people have been trying to do, though, is then connect that "pandering" to box office performance, and that's where the theory just runs into a brick wall.

Again, these movies are popular. They are not universally disliked at a baseline, much less for something specific like "pandering." No movie does +$300M at the box office because people are indifferent to it or can't stand it.

The problem seems to be that the movies aren't profitable, or rather aren't profitable enough. And that has sod all to do with diversity/pandering and everything to do with film studios' goals, expectations, and business practices.

In essence, the film studios are betting on every entry in these franchises as being potential billion-dollar films. That's how they treat each of them in the development process, and it's how they support them in the pre- and post-release marketing process. But the problem is that the films aren't actually performing like billion-dollar films. They're performing like hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars films....and that's not enough for the studios. Or at least, it's not enough to justify the expenditures they made or support the development process they've adopted.

Let's step aside from Marvel for a second, and focus instead on Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny. LFL's budget for the film is estimated to have been about $300M. I don't know how much was spent on marketing. It used to be that you assumed the film's budget was simply replicated in marketing costs, but I question whether Dial of Destiny saw $300M worth of marketing. Although admittedly, I don't watch TV with commercials anymore, so what do I know. Regardless, they spent $300M just making the film, a bunch more money marketing it...and it brought in $384M worldwide in box office.

By any reasonable, objective standard, $384M box off is is a crapload of money.

The problem is that they blew probably more than that amount in earning it.

Now, was that because the film dared to have a female character who was remotely competent? Was it because the film made Indy a broken shell of his former self?

Or was it maybe because the last Indy film left audiences feeling kinda blah? Or perhaps that people just don't buy the notion of a nearly-octogenarian action hero? Or maybe it's just that...the brand isn't that strong anymore and kids have no idea who Indiana Jones actually is. Orrrrr maybe it's all manner of other stuff? Economic pressures, post-COVID theater-going tendencies (or rather, stay-at-home tendencies), etc., etc.

Answer: It actually doesn't really matter a ton. Because $384M worth of box office means your movie was actually quite popular. It just wasn't $1B popular. And the reason this film is a "disappointment" is because they spent money on it as if it was going to be a $1B film...and it just wasn't. If I spent that kind of money on a project and didn't even necessarily cover my costs, hell yeah I'd be disappointed, to put it mildly. On the other hand, if I'd spent, say, $100M on making it, and made 3x that much, I'd be pretty damn happy.

Again, the numbers don't bear out the "pandering" theory in terms of box office performance. What they show is that these studios' business practices in actually making the films are idiotic and they're making billion-dollar bets waaaaay too often.
 
Let's step aside from Marvel for a second, and focus instead on Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny. LFL's budget for the film is estimated to have been about $300M. I don't know how much was spent on marketing. It used to be that you assumed the film's budget was simply replicated in marketing costs, but I question whether Dial of Destiny saw $300M worth of marketing. Although admittedly, I don't watch TV with commercials anymore, so what do I know. Regardless, they spent $300M just making the film, a bunch more money marketing it...and it brought in $384M worldwide in box office.

By any reasonable, objective standard, $384M box off is is a crapload of money.

The problem is that they blew probably more than that amount in earning it.

Now, was that because the film dared to have a female character who was remotely competent? Was it because the film made Indy a broken shell of his former self?

Or was it maybe because the last Indy film left audiences feeling kinda blah? Or perhaps that people just don't buy the notion of a nearly-octogenarian action hero? Or maybe it's just that...the brand isn't that strong anymore and kids have no idea who Indiana Jones actually is. Orrrrr maybe it's all manner of other stuff? Economic pressures, post-COVID theater-going tendencies (or rather, stay-at-home tendencies), etc., etc.

Answer: It actually doesn't really matter a ton. Because $384M worth of box office means your movie was actually quite popular. It just wasn't $1B popular. And the reason this film is a "disappointment" is because they spent money on it as if it was going to be a $1B film...and it just wasn't. If I spent that kind of money on a project and didn't even necessarily cover my costs, hell yeah I'd be disappointed, to put it mildly. On the other hand, if I'd spent, say, $100M on making it, and made 3x that much, I'd be pretty damn happy.

Again, the numbers don't bear out the "pandering" theory in terms of box office performance. What they show is that these studios' business practices in actually making the films are idiotic and they're making billion-dollar bets waaaaay too often.
Your facts are in error, sir.

Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny
cost $294.7 million to produce PLUS $100 million to market, which brings us to a grand total of $394.7 million. Subtracting that from the $384 million it made worldwide from that leaves you with - $10.7 million IN THE RED.

I think we need to examine your concept of "quite popular" here if you're using a financial metric, because nearly $11million in the red is not a success in any measurement I know of. And with the movie bombing that badly, I believe that the "pandering" that you claim doesn't exist is actually a relevant fact, seeing as the studio tried to pander to a non-existent "audience" for the film while alienating the fans by changing Indy to a defeated, broken shell of a man (amongst other things).

In short:

Go woke, go broke.
 
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I think we need to examine your concept of "quite popular" here if you're using a financial metric, because nearly $10.5 million in the red is not a success in any measurement I know of.

It wouldn't be in the red if they had spent less money on the film, hell, no Covid filming probably subtracts a huge amount from the budget. And none of that has anything to do with the script. Almost 40 million people went to see the movie.
 
Q. Is the Ford F-150 pickup a failed money-losing product?
A. It would be, if Ford was spending $200k apiece to build them.


Disney & other studios cannot keep spending $400m on every tentpole. That's the biggest lesson of the last several years. They are not Constitutionally entitled to get $1B in ticket sales just because they dumped $400m into something.

Indy#5, the Little Mermaid remake, The Flash, The Marvels, etc . . . there is no version of this timeline where they ALL sell a billion dollars EACH. Disney is basically operating like they should be able to expect that. It won't work. There just isn't that much money in the market to be collected.


Q. Are the movies too weak?
A. Yes. But that's only part of the problem.

Think a few steps farther out:

Q. WHY are the movies so weak?
A. It's largely because of filmmaking-by-corporate-committee.

That's the big reason for all the diversity checklists. It's why they worry more about release dates than finished scripts. Etc. It fuels the wrong-headed priorities.

Q. Why are the movies such total corporate committee products?
A. Because the studios are too scared to take risks . . . on movies that cost $400m!

The studios have spent the last 25 years in a feedback loop. It has been opening the throttle (production costs) wider & wider. The more they spend on these movies, the more corporate & less creative the movies get, and the crappier the results are. And the more money they lose. And the more they spend (on an even bigger show) next year, trying to avoid another loss.
 
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