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  1. RPF Premium Member mgoob's Avatar
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    Dec 12, 2017, 7:20 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #126

    Why is Lucas showing the prop to Mark?
  2. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
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    Dec 12, 2017, 8:41 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #127

    Logic is suggesting to me that they "repaired" or reconstructed a Graflex for this moment. (since only the bottom tube completely is screen matched)

    Then, seeing as they couldn't use Luke's Graflex for ROTJ, the V2 was decorated and readied for set instead.
  3. SethS's Avatar
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    Dec 12, 2017, 10:45 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #128

    Okay-- now that makes some sense. I kept asking why. If they had parts in a box and cobbled together a new hero for ROTJ (along with the Vader stunt) that might explain why changes were made.
  4. RPF Premium Member scottjua's Avatar
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    Dec 13, 2017, 12:07 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #129

    thd9791 said: View Post
    Logic is suggesting to me that they "repaired" or reconstructed a Graflex for this moment. (since only the bottom tube completely is screen matched)

    Then, seeing as they couldn't use Luke's Graflex for ROTJ, the V2 was decorated and readied for set instead.

    except the V2 wasn't decorated or readied... it was just used as-is.
  5. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
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    Dec 13, 2017, 1:17 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #130

    scottjua said: View Post
    except the V2 wasn't decorated or readied... it was just used as-is.
    Am I correct that only the Shared Stunt was rigged for fighting post ANH? The V2 seems more like a belt hanger with that knurled chunk and just the cut-off rod holding the emitter on.

    *not trying to derail the thread*
  6. halliwax's Avatar
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    Dec 13, 2017, 8:37 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #131

    thd9791 said: View Post
    Am I correct that only the Shared Stunt was rigged for fighting post ANH? The V2 seems more like a belt hanger with that knurled chunk and just the cut-off rod holding the emitter on.

    *not trying to derail the thread*
    No worryís about derailing, I did that pages ago!

    When u say shared stunt do u mean v3?
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    Dec 13, 2017, 9:54 AM - Upside-down Kobold? #132

    Tom/Seth, maybe what Iím about to say is exactly what youíre already saying and Iím just misunderstanding, so apologies in advance if thatís the case. .


    We know the bottom of the dagobah and the ranch are a match per Gino. And though Gino isnít sure, i think he said it seems less likely the top is different.


    Isnít the most simple explanation then that the ending Dagobah Saber was left intact after filming, they grabbed it for ROTJ and after it was rejected, it ultimately became what we now call the ranch saber? And somewhere in between filming Dagobah and showing up on the ROTJ set, the clip broke and was repaired ďwrongĒ in its flipped orientation.


    It seems easier to swallow that itís all the same item with one piece being damaged and fixed- than a full rebuild or even a mishmash of parts.. Again, if this is exactly what you both are already saying, my apologies, I just interpreted it differently.
    Last edited by ms80444; Dec 13, 2017 at 12:24 PM.
  8. SethS's Avatar
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    Dec 13, 2017, 12:21 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #133

    That’s pretty much exactly what I’m imagining. It covers the matching grips, the different top, and says why the Kobold might be flipped if it was a rehab for ROTJ since in ESB they seemed to have had correct parts to swap in.

    No way to ever know for sure of course.
  9. RPF Premium Member GINO's Avatar
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    Dec 13, 2017, 1:31 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #134

    The way I understood it was that they never intended to use a graflex for Luke in ROTJ, so not sure why that saber ended up on set.
    The reason the Luke ROTJ looks the way it does is because it's intent was to look like obi wan's saber built out of parts from his abandoned hut.
    So in effect the Luke ROTJ is the prop department's attempt at a replica Obi Wan ANH (with some new artistic liberties).
  10. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
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    Dec 13, 2017, 2:39 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #135

    GINO said: View Post
    The way I understood it was that they never intended to use a graflex for Luke in ROTJ, so not sure why that saber ended up on set.
    The reason the Luke ROTJ looks the way it does is because it's intent was to look like obi wan's saber built out of parts from his abandoned hut.
    So in effect the Luke ROTJ is the prop department's attempt at a replica Obi Wan ANH (with some new artistic liberties).
    I was very happy to see the casting in wired magazine that had a graflex clamp pushed up and the pommel rotated to sit in line with the clamp box. Those details ended up on the rotj hero.
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    Dec 13, 2017, 2:44 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #136

    Seth, werenít you just showing in another thread concept art of Luke with the Graflex for ROTJ? I mean, I suppose concept art isnít proof of intent, but between that and the photo of it on set, Iím still a little skeptical the V2 and itís eventual reasoning wasnít a last minute decision.


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  12. SethS's Avatar
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    Dec 13, 2017, 3:05 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #137

    It's one of those things we'll just never know.

    I thought the Luke using Obi-Wan parts was something that came up in Shadows of the Empire. Palpatine even remarked it was "much like your father's" even though it totally wasn't.

    Since there was no need for anything but a belt-hanger in the sandstorm scene, the Graflex being there implies a mistake was made. Maybe they had the plan for the new saber and the prop guy grabbed the wrong thing? Maybe they just assumed Luke would have the same one and didn't think it over.

    The very fact that a recycled stunt was used as a belt hanger tells me that regardless of intent or plans, giving Luke a new original lightsaber was something that didn't have the same level of intent and focus that Lucas and Roger Christian had over the Graflex for ANH. That's the only thing I'm comfortable saying with any certainty. The fact a true hero wasn't even made until after principle photography had wrapped leans to this as well.
  13. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
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    Dec 13, 2017, 4:51 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #138

    SethS said: View Post
    The fact a true hero wasn't even made until after principle photography had wrapped leans to this as well.
    for a moment I was wondering why this didn't count. I get it now
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I've run into problems before where the only screws I had were too short. The Kobold being flipped upside down solves that problem pretty well.
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    Dec 14, 2017, 3:23 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #139

    I do want to say thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. My original interest really started with a fascination with the ranch saber and trying to understand more about its details and its history.

    I feel very good about having a ďclose as can beĒ answer to that question now and itís most certainly thanks to contributions, expertise and knowledge of everyone here. So thanks all, very cool stuff.

    And obviously keep the thread going in whatever direction it continues to evolve. Just wanted to say my own personal thanks. Cheers.


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  15. halliwax's Avatar
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    Dec 15, 2017, 1:11 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #140

    Iím back! What did I miss?! Tom beautiful pic! MS, you got me still hunting kobold flip pics!


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  16. RPF Premium Member roygilsing's Avatar
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    Dec 15, 2017, 2:50 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #141

    My brain is melting! What is the current consensus? Danny, can you enlighten me?
  17. halliwax's Avatar
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    Dec 15, 2017, 8:10 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #142

    roygilsing said: View Post
    My brain is melting! What is the current consensus? Danny, can you enlighten me?
    Iím on board with Seth and Tom, and Ms

    Some where between The end of filming of ESB and the beginning of RoTJ the ranch saber bottom was removed for the its dagobah graflex we see in all the dagobah shots

    Something happened to the kobold and they had to fasten it back down. They grabbed some random screws which were too short so the flipped the kobold

    Reattached the kobold, threw a random clamp and top on and called it good

    Thatís what Iím running with now Roy lol
  18. RPF Premium Member roygilsing's Avatar
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    Dec 15, 2017, 12:19 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #143

    Thanks! I'll re-read the thread later to get it clear in my head.
  19. halliwax's Avatar
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    Dec 15, 2017, 1:54 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #144

    For the record this is one of my favorite threads, love all the team work and debating. Also mad shout out to ms for pushing the flipped clip, only to make this new discovery! Nice one buddy!!


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    4 Weeks Ago  Dec 21, 2017, 8:05 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #145

    Does anyone know what year they put the ranch saber on display? Just curious how long it sat before someone decided to display it.


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  21. halliwax's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Dec 21, 2017, 8:43 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #146

    ms80444 said: View Post
    Does anyone know what year they put the ranch saber on display? Just curious how long it sat before someone decided to display it.


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    Good question
  22. SethS's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Dec 23, 2017, 10:28 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #147

    scottjua said: View Post
    Attachment 777459

    It was one of the bladed stunts with a short blade.
    @Drew Baker just pointed this out to me... blow this bad boy up... there's a beer tab!

    I think it's also on a bladed stunt on Dagobah (possibly the same one).
  23. RPF Premium Member Anakin Starkiller's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Dec 24, 2017, 12:41 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #148

    I remember that one of the bladed stunts seemed to have the thin knurled red buttons on it as well. Can't seem to find the image right now
  24. halliwax's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Dec 24, 2017, 12:48 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #149

    dang seth i never noticed that!!!
  25. RPF Premium Member
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    4 Weeks Ago  Dec 24, 2017, 1:02 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #150

    Anakin Starkiller said: View Post
    I remember that one of the bladed stunts seemed to have the thin knurled red buttons on it as well. Can't seem to find the image right now
    Yes indeed. There is at least one that I can find quickly from Bespin scenes (attached). I think Iíve seen another shot too, but I canít remember if there was anything to indicate if it was the same stunt.




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