MR OBI-WAN saber question
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WinstonWolf359
Sr Member
I think the MR Obi was a pretty good "best guess" for it's time since it was developed before all of the original parts were identified.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see an Elite Edition of that saber in the future now that the parts have been ID'd.
Or you could piece together something now from the vendors that are already making accurate parts and save the wait.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see an Elite Edition of that saber in the future now that the parts have been ID'd.
Or you could piece together something now from the vendors that are already making accurate parts and save the wait.
Based on the information that was available at the time, the MR OWK saber was not a bad interpretation of the prop. However, since it was issued, all of the original parts have been identified and consequently the MR saber not appears quite innacurate. If you want a truely accurate replica I suggest building one yourself. There is now a run of super accurate gears being done by in steel by Serifino, Roman makes accurate pommels, a run of accurate emmiters looks to be coming up very soon, and for the grenade if you want a steel you can try to track down a Chen grenade or if you want an aluminum grenade you can purchase one from Roman. A saber made from these parts would be far more accurate than the MR version and possibly cheaper.
Good luck
Dan Stokes
DDStokes@aol.co,
Good luck
Dan Stokes
DDStokes@aol.co,
franz bolo
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>(WinstonWolf359 @ Sep 21 2006, 09:36 AM) [snapback]1323891[/snapback]</div>
Unless they get with a member here that has done the research on a screen accurate part, I doubt that it will ever happen.
If it did, they would probably copy just any old booster and guess at the emitter details and sizes.. :lol
FB
Unless they get with a member here that has done the research on a screen accurate part, I doubt that it will ever happen.
If it did, they would probably copy just any old booster and guess at the emitter details and sizes.. :lol
FB
aniskywalker
Well-Known Member
<div class='quotetop'>(franz bolo @ Sep 21 2006, 03:48 PM) [snapback]1323902[/snapback]</div>
Not MR. Can't be. Say it's not true... :lol
******
I had the MR Obi-wan, once... sold it.
Now I am collecting the parts to do it Correctly.
James
Not MR. Can't be. Say it's not true... :lol
******
I had the MR Obi-wan, once... sold it.
Now I am collecting the parts to do it Correctly.
James
ob1al
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'></div>
Yeah me too - I owned the MR version (very nice display piece by the way.) but sold it in favour of making my 'own' version from parts mostly acquired here on the RPF.
I had the MR Obi-wan, once... sold it.
Now I am collecting the parts to do it Correctly.
[/b]
Yeah me too - I owned the MR version (very nice display piece by the way.) but sold it in favour of making my 'own' version from parts mostly acquired here on the RPF.
Serafino
Sr Member
More than you ever wanted to know. I wrote this originally in 2004, but have updated it a bit where necessary.
MR Obi-wan Weathered
There are several different ways to look at Master Replica's replica of Obi Wan Kenobi's lightsaber from Star Wars: A New Hope.
Looked at as a mass-produced prop replica intended for a general audience of collectors, it's a success. It has great 'presence', the various parts with their different textures, finishes, and weathering combine to give a rich and fairly believable effect. Hand one to someone who is only glancingly familiar with the design and they will be impressed. On this level the MR is arguably better than all of its predecessors licensed and unlicensed.
Looked at as the long-awaited 'definitive' replica of the most enigmatic and complex lightsaber prop of the Old Trilogy, the MR is both a remarkable achievement, and something of a disappointment. In terms of conception it is a true tour de force--a whole list of small details are present, from the wires between the clamp and the 'gear', to the small screws in the clamp and the stop pin on the grenade stem. For anyone not already familiar with these details, this saber was a nearly complete education in what was known (in 2004) about the original prop as it was photographed after filming. MR deserves a great deal of credit for making such an effort to render details which not so many potential purchasers are aware of. The disappointment comes in when one compares the replica to photos of the original. In terms of accuracy of form this saber is a mixture of great new discoveries/ideas, near-misses and inexplicable inaccuracies. Taking the parts one at a time:
The Pommel
This piece is beautifully made, by far the highest quality version ever done. It's a perfect example of something that a large company like MR can do efficiently and a small artisan can't match. Unfortunately the spacing between the 'cubes' is too narrow--the cubes themselves are too large. The butt-end has the right sort of complex radius, but it is a bit short. The spaces between the cubes are rounded instead of flat which is not accurate to the original, but it does add to the overall sense of high quality. MR did produce a new idea here--their design includes a controversial curved swept extension of the pommel which takes the place of the usual 'gear spacer', and which does correspond to visible features of the area which had yet to be more convincingly explained (but which later turned out to be a stepped extension of the booster/'gear').
The 'Gear'
I have to admit that MR actually got this closer to correct than I originally gave them credit for--their version is surprisingly close in cross-section to some original AN M2 boosters. I think their version may be too long though, haven't got the measurements handy.
The Clamp
A nice, substantial version of this well known part, with no lettering but with the lines present, and some decent 'bubbles' with mirror backing. The 'transistors' are a bit square-edged, and the even matte finish on them makes them look rather like plastic.
The Grenade
MR borrowed an actual grenade for their research, which helped them make a very accurate version. In most places where their sample differed from the original prop, they followed the prop. The 'stem' is made out of brass, which is a nice touch although you can't really see it under the weathering. Unfortunately the windvane is surprisingly small. Although the vane on the prop seems a little smaller than typical original grenades, that of the replica is even smaller, making the emitter look over-large by comparison. MR also made a strange choice to add a detail to the windvane cover which has no precedent--they added pronounced ribbing, giving it a different texture from the prop or any published original grenade. Although the overall shape of the frag body is fairly accurate, the grooves are too narrow/shallow, making the frag segments noticeably too thick.
The Emitter
It's clear that some thought went into this part, the design is significantly different from everything that had been done before, and an attempt was made to give the piece a unique look similar to the prop by anodizing it a medium grey. In terms of basic exterior design this emitter was the most accurate to date at the time of its release, and MR deserves credit for revising the proportions and realizing that the original part was slightly larger than prior attempts had it. Unfortunately the finish and weathering on this part tend to detract from its effect--the "warm grey" anodizing, left mostly smooth but for abraded edge wear, makes the part look a bit strange and "fake". The effect would have been spectacular had a more neutral grey anodizing been left intact and black weathering added over it, with the worn areas and edges showing the grey instead of white aluminum. (Since the discovery of the original part, the 'quibbles' about the ring of holes have become more relevant, but in fairness for what was known when the saber came out I have left them in the 'quibbles' section.)
The Weathering
Because of the condition of the original prop when photographs were taken of it after filming, it is commonly thought of as a highly weathered and abused object. MR rendered this aspect of the prop by applying a liberal helping of scuffs, 'dirt', dings and edge-worn finishes. It's probably the best weathering job ever done on a mass-produced object. One can argue over the merits of the visible scratch patterns on the pommel, or the 'dirt' layered onto the clamp, or the standard 'edge wear' look of the frag body, but there is one instance in which the weathering is clearly overdone--the first ring on the emitter, just above the grenade, has been so battered as to be reduced from its correct cylindrical shape into a taper of mangled metal. It's the single most glaring inaccuracy on the replica.
Quibbles
MR is not really in business to satisfy the relatively small number of prop 'fanatics' in the world, so there is a level of perfection which it would be truly unreasonable to expect MR to reach (and pay/charge) for in a project of this difficulty. Nonetheless, it is worth giving a list of quibbles for the sake of the hardcore fan who might be concerned with these details. (Those of you not afflicted with this fascination can please just feel lucky that you're not so hard to please. )
Black anodized matte aluminum with edge wear has a distinctive "black and white" monochromatic appearance which doesn't look like corroded steel or brass. It would have been wonderful if the frag body (and emitter) could have had the rich dark grey lustre of aged steel, and if the cliche of 'worn edges' could have been replaced on the frag body with something more like the mottled patterns of blackish oxidation visible on the original prop. The windvane sleeve is blackened aluminum whereas the originals are brass--it would have been great to have a brass windvane sleeve showing warm tones through almost-black tarnish.
There are some additional problems with scaling--the top of the stem is too thick, which worsens the effect of the too-small windvane (possibly a case where their source grenade misled them--some but not all original grenades have this proportion). The emitter main tube is just a bit too large--it's a difference of less than .05" (insane that I had this right from photos, but I did), but it doesn't help the proportion problem vs. the windvane.
The emitter front face interior ring (the one with the holes in it) is flat and shallow, and the holes lead into the main emitter chamber rather than into a side channel as it is clear the original did. As is now known from the original part (discovered late 2005), the ring of holes has a uniquely beveled recess.
The windvane sleeve has the 'swept' style groove, an understandable choice given their reference grenade and the difficulty of being sure what the original had, but IMO it is possible to tell that the original was in fact of the round groove type.
Conclusion
TThere's truth in the old saying that you can't please everybody. A project like this is a perfect illustration--the lack of detailed information or any surviving original leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Master Replicas went out on a limb in an attempt to make something special and definitive. The final result is admirable on several levels and a very nice collector's piece. In some ways MR even seemed to want to satisfy the hardcore fan. Certainly their project was the one greatest chance to create a truly definitive version of this prop--they had available the best reference material, and better research and manufacturing resources than any previous attempt. Unfortunately, despite these resources, it's the hardcore fan who won't be satisfied, as this replica does not fully capture the form of the original prop.
[This review was originally based on extensive analysis of photos of the original prop, including painstaking comparisons to recreated photographs of the replica taken from similar angles and distances and in similar lighting. It has been slightly revised to reflect new discoveries made since 2004. I am very much indebted to a number of fellow fanatics whose good eyes, painstaking analysis and patient argument have kept me continuously refining and reconsidering my understanding of this prop--you know who you are.]
I wrote this originally in 2004, but have updated it a bit where necessary.MR Obi-wan Weathered
There are several different ways to look at Master Replica's replica of Obi Wan Kenobi's lightsaber from Star Wars: A New Hope.
Looked at as a mass-produced prop replica intended for a general audience of collectors, it's a success. It has great 'presence', the various parts with their different textures, finishes, and weathering combine to give a rich and fairly believable effect. Hand one to someone who is only glancingly familiar with the design and they will be impressed. On this level the MR is arguably better than all of its predecessors licensed and unlicensed.
Looked at as the long-awaited 'definitive' replica of the most enigmatic and complex lightsaber prop of the Old Trilogy, the MR is both a remarkable achievement, and something of a disappointment. In terms of conception it is a true tour de force--a whole list of small details are present, from the wires between the clamp and the 'gear', to the small screws in the clamp and the stop pin on the grenade stem. For anyone not already familiar with these details, this saber was a nearly complete education in what was known (in 2004) about the original prop as it was photographed after filming. MR deserves a great deal of credit for making such an effort to render details which not so many potential purchasers are aware of. The disappointment comes in when one compares the replica to photos of the original. In terms of accuracy of form this saber is a mixture of great new discoveries/ideas, near-misses and inexplicable inaccuracies. Taking the parts one at a time:
The Pommel
This piece is beautifully made, by far the highest quality version ever done. It's a perfect example of something that a large company like MR can do efficiently and a small artisan can't match. Unfortunately the spacing between the 'cubes' is too narrow--the cubes themselves are too large. The butt-end has the right sort of complex radius, but it is a bit short. The spaces between the cubes are rounded instead of flat which is not accurate to the original, but it does add to the overall sense of high quality. MR did produce a new idea here--their design includes a controversial curved swept extension of the pommel which takes the place of the usual 'gear spacer', and which does correspond to visible features of the area which had yet to be more convincingly explained (but which later turned out to be a stepped extension of the booster/'gear').
The 'Gear'
I have to admit that MR actually got this closer to correct than I originally gave them credit for--their version is surprisingly close in cross-section to some original AN M2 boosters. I think their version may be too long though, haven't got the measurements handy.
The Clamp
A nice, substantial version of this well known part, with no lettering but with the lines present, and some decent 'bubbles' with mirror backing. The 'transistors' are a bit square-edged, and the even matte finish on them makes them look rather like plastic.
The Grenade
MR borrowed an actual grenade for their research, which helped them make a very accurate version. In most places where their sample differed from the original prop, they followed the prop. The 'stem' is made out of brass, which is a nice touch although you can't really see it under the weathering. Unfortunately the windvane is surprisingly small. Although the vane on the prop seems a little smaller than typical original grenades, that of the replica is even smaller, making the emitter look over-large by comparison. MR also made a strange choice to add a detail to the windvane cover which has no precedent--they added pronounced ribbing, giving it a different texture from the prop or any published original grenade. Although the overall shape of the frag body is fairly accurate, the grooves are too narrow/shallow, making the frag segments noticeably too thick.
The Emitter
It's clear that some thought went into this part, the design is significantly different from everything that had been done before, and an attempt was made to give the piece a unique look similar to the prop by anodizing it a medium grey. In terms of basic exterior design this emitter was the most accurate to date at the time of its release, and MR deserves credit for revising the proportions and realizing that the original part was slightly larger than prior attempts had it. Unfortunately the finish and weathering on this part tend to detract from its effect--the "warm grey" anodizing, left mostly smooth but for abraded edge wear, makes the part look a bit strange and "fake". The effect would have been spectacular had a more neutral grey anodizing been left intact and black weathering added over it, with the worn areas and edges showing the grey instead of white aluminum. (Since the discovery of the original part, the 'quibbles' about the ring of holes have become more relevant, but in fairness for what was known when the saber came out I have left them in the 'quibbles' section.)
The Weathering
Because of the condition of the original prop when photographs were taken of it after filming, it is commonly thought of as a highly weathered and abused object. MR rendered this aspect of the prop by applying a liberal helping of scuffs, 'dirt', dings and edge-worn finishes. It's probably the best weathering job ever done on a mass-produced object. One can argue over the merits of the visible scratch patterns on the pommel, or the 'dirt' layered onto the clamp, or the standard 'edge wear' look of the frag body, but there is one instance in which the weathering is clearly overdone--the first ring on the emitter, just above the grenade, has been so battered as to be reduced from its correct cylindrical shape into a taper of mangled metal. It's the single most glaring inaccuracy on the replica.
Quibbles
MR is not really in business to satisfy the relatively small number of prop 'fanatics' in the world, so there is a level of perfection which it would be truly unreasonable to expect MR to reach (and pay/charge) for in a project of this difficulty. Nonetheless, it is worth giving a list of quibbles for the sake of the hardcore fan who might be concerned with these details. (Those of you not afflicted with this fascination can please just feel lucky that you're not so hard to please.
)Black anodized matte aluminum with edge wear has a distinctive "black and white" monochromatic appearance which doesn't look like corroded steel or brass. It would have been wonderful if the frag body (and emitter) could have had the rich dark grey lustre of aged steel, and if the cliche of 'worn edges' could have been replaced on the frag body with something more like the mottled patterns of blackish oxidation visible on the original prop. The windvane sleeve is blackened aluminum whereas the originals are brass--it would have been great to have a brass windvane sleeve showing warm tones through almost-black tarnish.
There are some additional problems with scaling--the top of the stem is too thick, which worsens the effect of the too-small windvane (possibly a case where their source grenade misled them--some but not all original grenades have this proportion). The emitter main tube is just a bit too large--it's a difference of less than .05" (insane that I had this right from photos, but I did
), but it doesn't help the proportion problem vs. the windvane.The emitter front face interior ring (the one with the holes in it) is flat and shallow, and the holes lead into the main emitter chamber rather than into a side channel as it is clear the original did. As is now known from the original part (discovered late 2005), the ring of holes has a uniquely beveled recess.
The windvane sleeve has the 'swept' style groove, an understandable choice given their reference grenade and the difficulty of being sure what the original had, but IMO it is possible to tell that the original was in fact of the round groove type.
Conclusion
TThere's truth in the old saying that you can't please everybody. A project like this is a perfect illustration--the lack of detailed information or any surviving original leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Master Replicas went out on a limb in an attempt to make something special and definitive. The final result is admirable on several levels and a very nice collector's piece. In some ways MR even seemed to want to satisfy the hardcore fan. Certainly their project was the one greatest chance to create a truly definitive version of this prop--they had available the best reference material, and better research and manufacturing resources than any previous attempt. Unfortunately, despite these resources, it's the hardcore fan who won't be satisfied, as this replica does not fully capture the form of the original prop.
[This review was originally based on extensive analysis of photos of the original prop, including painstaking comparisons to recreated photographs of the replica taken from similar angles and distances and in similar lighting. It has been slightly revised to reflect new discoveries made since 2004. I am very much indebted to a number of fellow fanatics whose good eyes, painstaking analysis and patient argument have kept me continuously refining and reconsidering my understanding of this prop--you know who you are.]
lesternessman
Well-Known Member
that was truly a great piece Serafino, very well done....
djobitwan7
New Member
Always wondered, for didn't MR take the props from Lucas himself and laser scanned what was available? They did this with the sabers from Episode 1 - 3. At least from what I remember reading about it the first time around. Any explanations would be helpful and thanks guys.
KramStaar
Sr Member
The problem is that many of the original props are in such a poor state that many of them in Licensing's opinion would never meet the approval of the fans. Duct tape, fibreglass - not pretty and it should be remembered that these were never intended for merchandising and thus were never (originally) built as such. Not like those made and built for Ep 1,2 and 3..
There have been arguments put forward in RPF that some fans here WANT the real 'screen used' props replicated EXACTLY as they exist today, but as great as this sounds, the possibility of LFL and the licensed business (in this case the former MR) making any decent revenue out of such a niche market product is highly unlikely - there is just not enough demand to make it worth the money spent..
MR made their version in a way that they (and LFL) considered would be a desirable 'romanticised' version of the weathering and ultimate prop that the general fan would purchase and enjoy. Judging by the scarcity of their availability these these days, its fair to argue that although many hard-core prop collectors will disagree, they made the correct ($$ return) decision....
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Serafino
Sr Member
Djob and Kram, the short answer to the question of why MR didn't just use the original prop(s) is that as far as anyone knows it does not exist. It may have been returned to the prop rental company, but I think really no one knows. Lucas doesn't have it.
Clutch--congratulations on your progress!
Clutch--congratulations on your progress!
cayman shen
Master Member
I think to say the Obi-Wan is "very" or "quite" innacurate is pretty ridiculous. There are a few small errors. It's not like it's the Icons or Parks or anything. It's damn close to accurate. The finish is gorgeous, it displays very well, and since I recently got one (for $240!) it's become the pride of my collection.
Some of you act as though they made an Obi-wan turnip or something. It's 95% on, you know? It's not like the sold us a Maglite.
Let the whining begin about how I'm a bad person for not demanding perfection.
And, incidentally, a lot of necroposting going on lately, or is it me?
Some of you act as though they made an Obi-wan turnip or something. It's 95% on, you know? It's not like the sold us a Maglite.
Let the whining begin about how I'm a bad person for not demanding perfection.
And, incidentally, a lot of necroposting going on lately, or is it me?
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Serafino
Sr Member
Cayman--you're not a bad person. This is a hobby, everyone (that's EVERYONE) has a right to want whatever they want. It's an optional choice.
You are, however, overreacting. Your comments don't really apply well to anything that's been said here either 3 years ago or in the last few days.
You are, however, overreacting. Your comments don't really apply well to anything that's been said here either 3 years ago or in the last few days.
And, I LOVE my MR Weathered Obi.
cayman shen
Master Member
Cayman--you're not a bad person. This is a hobby, everyone (that's EVERYONE) has a right to want whatever they want. It's an optional choice.
You are, however, overreacting. Your comments don't really apply well to anything that's been said here either 3 years ago or in the last few days.
Not meaning to come off as over-reacting...hard to strike the right tone on the Internet sometimes. Your post was excellent and I appreciate you posting it. I just feel like there are a lot of MR haters out there, and while I respect the quest for dead on accuracy, I also feel like they've put out some damn good product, and this saber is probably the best of it. I felt like your post was really fair and enlightening...like I said, the post wasn't supposed to read as strong as I guess it did. I should have used some emoticons! :$
arkangel
Well-Known Member
I think this simply shows that there is a certain range of discernability among prop enthusiasts and there's nothing wrong with that.
Caymen Shen - With respect, the fact that you hold the MR in much higher regard than a Parks or an Icons and are a member of this prop board shows that you're probably more discerning than 95 percent of the people that purchased this saber as well. :lol
Of the 12 MR sabers I own, the weathered Obi is by FAR my favorite too, and probably the last one I'd ever part with. I agree that it's a gorgeous piece that goes above and beyond what has come before and everytime I look at it, I too am amazed that they could mass produce this level of quality and detail.
I doubt that average Joe Public cares about the wires between the clamp/ gear or the brass clamp screws, but their inclusion shows that this saber was a labor of love developed by people who care just as much about the details.
That said, I still enjoy posts like Serafino's that dissect the details even further. While I don't quite share his level of scrutiny, I would have liked to have seen less denting on the lower part of the emitter and less weathering , especially on the windvane, so as to show more of the brass, as well.
As for the rest of the saber, I absolutely love the aesthetics of the pommel even if certain areas were slightly idealized and when comparing the saber to the 2 reference pics I know of, and I'm more than satisfied with it's proportions. Too me, it has a decent burger to bun ratio.
p.s. I just know I'm going to be checking out the windvane to emitter proportions, against my reference pics tonight. Damn you Serafino! :lol
Clark
Caymen Shen - With respect, the fact that you hold the MR in much higher regard than a Parks or an Icons and are a member of this prop board shows that you're probably more discerning than 95 percent of the people that purchased this saber as well. :lol
Of the 12 MR sabers I own, the weathered Obi is by FAR my favorite too, and probably the last one I'd ever part with. I agree that it's a gorgeous piece that goes above and beyond what has come before and everytime I look at it, I too am amazed that they could mass produce this level of quality and detail.
I doubt that average Joe Public cares about the wires between the clamp/ gear or the brass clamp screws, but their inclusion shows that this saber was a labor of love developed by people who care just as much about the details.
That said, I still enjoy posts like Serafino's that dissect the details even further. While I don't quite share his level of scrutiny, I would have liked to have seen less denting on the lower part of the emitter and less weathering , especially on the windvane, so as to show more of the brass, as well.
As for the rest of the saber, I absolutely love the aesthetics of the pommel even if certain areas were slightly idealized and when comparing the saber to the 2 reference pics I know of, and I'm more than satisfied with it's proportions. Too me, it has a decent burger to bun ratio.
p.s. I just know I'm going to be checking out the windvane to emitter proportions, against my reference pics tonight. Damn you Serafino! :lol
Clark
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