sztriki
Sr Member
So we're accepting A when A suits the plot and B when B does no matter that A and B contradict each other within the same movie?
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
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Solo4114
Master Member
I watched the movie and enjoyed it. I wasn't picking it apart while I did. So, no, Poe's move didn't bother me.
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sztriki
Sr Member
I'm not talking about Poe's move. RJ said regarding the Leia scene that it actually wasn't such a huge force-effort that she could fly around in space because space has zero gravity and no resistance.
So if we accept this (which is actually the Newtonian way) then the rest of the movie goes to the bin because there should be no issue with fuel, they simply would not need constant fuel to travel at a steady speed.
sztriki
Sr Member
Gonna have to bring that up with the screenwriter I guess.
Solo4114
Master Member
The Leia moment was, for me, one of the few truly "WTF?!" moments in the film, but it didn't change my overall enjoyment of the film. To me, it's just...a moment. It came, it went, we moved on. It wasn't central to the film, it wasn't a huge problem for me, and it definitely didn't "break physics" in the film. She used the Force, and we pretty much don't have hard and fast "rules" for the Force. Or at least, every time we think we do, the next film changes it. >shrug< Basically, "Force" beats "physics." And, as I said, it wasn't really a focal point of the film.
sztriki
Sr Member
Nevermind, we seem to be talking about two completely different things.
Solo4114
Master Member
You're talking about when she's out in space, reaches out, and pulls herself towards the ship, right? If that's what you're talking about, then I stand by my previous point.
Leia's use of the Force there didn't bother me. I mean, it stood out as a "Whoa....what?!" kind of moment, but it didn't bother me to the point that I started questioning all the rest of the depiction of physics in space in the film. I don't really care what RJ said about how/why it worked, mostly because I don't really care about the moment itself. It struck me as a wild use of the Force, and more difficult to believe than most of the other uses we've seen, but I just shrugged and moved on.
I have my complaints about the film. The Leia-in-spaaaaaaaaace scene is one of them, but it's a minor complaint. The fuel thing seemed kinda dumb. I would've preferred it to be less about just a continual running battle, and more about, like, jumping from point to point before they finally figure out they're being tracked, but...eh...it didn't destroy my enjoyment of the film.
I suppose at the end of the day that my enjoyment of the film is more of a gestalt thing and, if it works for me, I ignore or excuse in my mind the things that might otherwise be problems. I'll notice them -- especially on repeated watches -- but it doesn't bother me. There's stuff in the OT that I notice, too, but ultimately, it doesn't destroy my enjoyment of the films because my gestalt experience of them is positive. On the other hand, my gestalt experience of the PT is a negative one, so the sore spots stick out even more, and the stuff I like ends up minimized. (I do like some stuff in the PT.) With this film and TFA, it's an overall positive experience. I get why it wasn't for some folks. I'm sorry for them, truly. But for me? The stuff folks have been focused on just...didn't bother me. There was too much else that I liked.
They could have done something similar to the BSG episode “33” where they hyperspace jump to a point and the Resistance keeps showing up soon thereafter forcing them to jump again. That could have created a similar dramatic tension but visually may not have been as interesting as seeing the ships chasing each other with the continuous harassing fire from the Supremecy.
Solo4114
Master Member
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking about when I wrote that. You could also play with the whole "It'll take us X amount of time before our hyperdrives are online again!" thing. That would allow for the chase without introducing the fuel issue.
But again, these are the trees and I'm more focused on the forest. Sure there are some gnarly ones in there, and there's some muddy parts of the path that you probably would rather walk around, but on the whole, the forest is quite nice.
A few Acdemy Award nominations including best score and VX..
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/201...t-jedi-nominated-for-four-academy-awards.html
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/201...t-jedi-nominated-for-four-academy-awards.html
JD
Master Member
Well played. 33 was an amazing episode of BSG and showed us many nuances that TLJ either couldn't or failed to. The stress of the chase and the wear and tear on the crew probably wouldn't have played as well in a Star Wars movie as it did on episodic television (especially the darker, nitty-gritty that BSG tried to be). BSG is one of, if not, my favorite television programs and it had its share of problems with fans as well.
It might have more sense to some to avoid some of the questions what we saw in the movie and avoided the issues of fuel and the Resistance ships being able to stay just a bit ahead of the FO. But, at what point does it mean they they're ripping off BSG?
While I'm still very much okay with what we saw in the movie, this certainly adds a great possibility to a what could have been - rather than those that simply grasp at straws and create wild conspiracies.
Thanks.
Snikt
Sr Member
sztriki
Sr Member
I'm talking about the logical disconnect between the two scenes Leia floating in space where apparently zero G and no resistance exists being one and the ships stopping when they run out of fuel in the allegedly same environment. being the other. I was not talking about the scenes themselves. Especially that RJ as the creative mind behind the movie started to give his input. The Leia flying in space scene may be absolutely fine. The fleet running out of fuel and stopping may also be absolutely fine too. But what was said regarding how space works makes one or the other impossible in the context of THIS movie, not even the saga so logically speaking I don't see how one can get a pass as being WW2 in space while the other gets a pass as zero G and no resistance in space.
However I understand that you glide over plot issues, we all do this. There was a discussion in the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull thread about suspension of disbelief and essentially the same thing what you say, if there is enough enjoyment and there's enough positive the film can offer then you're more willing to let these things a pass. I can refer to Back to the Future or Indy flicks where I shrug at some of the plot contrivances so I'm not trying to convince anyone not to enjoy the movie, just pointed out the logical flaw. How much that bothers one is purely subjective.
Well, it’s hard to deny there have been more then a few completely unfounded accusations thrown at Lucasfilm of having some sort if socio-political agenda which really strain credibility.
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JD
Master Member
Physician, heal thyself. :facepalm
There was no dig or insult. Just a generality about some attacks on the movie. I have no real issue with folks who didn't like the movie - however, those that feel a need to create wild, crazy reasons why they don't (or can't) like a movie are just ridiculous. This doesn't apply to everyone that didn't like the movie - it applies to a few that make outrageous claims (and if you haven't seen them, you're either oblivious or ignoring the obvious).
- - - Updated - - -
Thanks - you probably said it better than I did.
Solo4114
Master Member
To be fair, I think it's pretty clear that the new films have been designed to be more inclusive and representative. It's not just white dudes as heroes.
Is that a bunch of antifa cuck SJW out of control political correctness designed to emasculate an entire fanbase?
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jlee562
Sr Member
And don't forget the plagiarism!
Snikt
Sr Member
While I do agree with you, JD has insulted people before in this thread, and since there is only text to see, its kinda hard to tell what kind of tone it was meant to be in. I dont really care, just something I got sick of reading.
Disney is just trying to make the most money, doing whatever it can. Like I said, if they knew that killing all the OT characters in a Star Wars movie unceremoniously would make over a billion dollars they would do it in a heartbeat. They really dont care. Its funny to think that they do.
JD
Master Member
There's the ignore button, bub. I've been insulted more times than I care to count - the personal attacks started by others here (you get this kinda BS that some opt to continue). Some folks will think posts are about them (and I wrote this prior my below reply) - but, more often than not, it's not. There's been a recent surge of ridiculousness posted here recently (and generally most of it isn't getting a direct reply from me)...
Now see, this could go under the general idea of "conspiracy theories." :lol Blanket statements that suggest some ulterior motive. They've already grossed over $4 billion at the box office. Whether or not Han and Luke were killed "unceremoniously" could be debatable (I think they both went out with a great deal of grandeur).
Is Disney doing whatever they can to make the most money? Disney is a ginormous company that's the doing the best they can to protect and grow their properties. These are long term investments and they're not going to do resort to gimmicks for a quick buck. To suggest they don't care about these characters and all that Star Wars encompasses is just nonsense... continuing Star Wars means they must care for it - they must nurture it.
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