Yale and ERA Tardis Key Research (Info for the 1963-present keys)

Figured I should add some screencaps so everyone can see the real key as well.

8x11-Dark-Water-05.png8x11-Dark-Water-01.png

you can see keys I found on eBay here in post 500. http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=152368&page=20&p=3543656&viewfull=1#post3543656
 
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Hey guys, it's been a LONG time since I posted here, but this is the thread that keeps me coming back.

Terrasolo and I have been going back and "fourth" on the tardis key used by Tom Baker and especially about the rumor of Tom only ever using a simplified key and not a copy of the Pertwee. Now we've heard that this wasn't the case and thanks to simple observation by Purpleblancmange there was some evidence to support that Tom was using a copy of the Pertwee key, however, there wasn't much evidence to show it was also used in any serial episodes or reference material for the other simplified key and what exactly its characteristics were. Rsearch by Terrasolo and myself has unearthed some interesting visual evidence about the difference between these two keys. I now turn this thread over to Terrasolo to present our information.
 
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Ok, sorry if this seems wordy or like I am teaching a class but it really seemed the easiest way to do this, but here you go....

Naturally we all knew that when Tom Baker took over the role he had used a copy of the Pertwee ankh key in promotional photos as the real one was gifted to Pertwee himself when he left the role. Promotional pictures of course are great as often times they can give us a better look at the props than the quality of footage and angles of the episodes but they can also be misleading, as is partly the case here for Tom. Based on these photos it was assumed that the only ankh key Tom used in the show was the same and therefore it was believed that the Pertwee copy was the first and only ankh key Tom had. That said, a few of us believed that there was another key as screen grabs and the promo photos didn’t always add up. Well after an exhaustive search, Straker and I feel we have finally gathered enough evidence to prove this theory and when we did we even shocked ourselves. What we found was that the mystery key – The Baker Key -, that we felt so strongly had existed, appeared in the show long before even we thought it did; Tom’s first episode as it turned out, Season 12’s “Robot”. The Baker key is pretty much the same style as the Pertwee key however the construction is simpler and some of finer points are very visibly different. To name a few:
1) Diamond top
2) One layer construction with no lip on the back
3) Pointed bottom
4) Larger constellation design

The Pertwee copy was still used in the Baker era however, not just in promotional photos. It can clearly be seen in “Genesis of the Daleks”. This is what I meant before by the promotional photos sometimes being misleading, yes Tom did use the Pertwee key copy onscreen but it wasn’t his first key as was previously thought, it was actually his second. In fact it seems that the Pertwee copy may have only been used in “Genesis of the Daleks” and “Terror of the Zygons” - the last story filmed of Season 12 and the first story filmed of Season 13. Admittedly the Pertwee copy could have also been used in the two stories filmed prior to Genesis - “The Ark in Space” and “Revenge of the Cybermen” - however the reference pictures are just too hard to tell any real definition either way in Ark and the key remains in his cardigan pocket during Revenge. It would then be fair to say that at most the Pertwee copy could have been used in at least two to four stories while the Baker key lasted much longer having been used before and after the Perwee copy. The last known use of the ankh style key in the Baker era appears to be in “The Sun Makers” in Season 15 where, again, the due to film quality it’s too difficult to pinpoint which version of the ankh key it really was.

While doing the research to prove the existence of the Baker key an interesting fact was also discovered on the Pertwee copy as well. The uneven crossbars of the Pertwee key are a well-known signature of the piece and it was believed that the Pertwee copy retained this feature. However looking at the screen caps from “Genesis of the Daleks" it is apparent that the props department had corrected the mold to have symmetrical crossbars. Which is interesting because when Mooncrest Models originally made his Third Doctor key replica a few of us had asked him if he could release an idealized “Tom Baker version”, which in effect was a simple alteration to his Pertwee key design making the crossbars symmetrical and Gary very kindly obliged. At the time we did this because we wanted a key that would be unique to Tom Baker in our collections but as it turns out when we asked Mooncrest to make that idealized key we in effect were actually making another screen accurate key without knowing it!

So there you go, visual proof that a Baker specific key does/did in fact exist and some updated facts about the Pertwee copy key. And not, some pics collected from many episodes to show all these points, which as they say are worth a thousand words.

EDIT (to Add Adams comments below in one place):
In the Baker Key pics below, specifically the key in the lock of the "The Android Invasion" group, you can see the key has the same layer thickness to the cross arms as it does the head the chain passes through, which shows very well that it is a single layer construction.

The Baker Key:
075-Robot-Caps-01.jpg 075-Robot-Caps-02.jpg 081-Planet-of-Evil-Caps-01.jpg 082-Pyramids-of-Mars-01-Caps.jpg 083-The-Android-Invasion-Caps-01.jpg

The Pertwee Copy:
078-Genesis-of-the-Daleks-01-Promo-and-Caps.jpg
 
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There's a lot to see here. In Genesis of the Daleks you can see the very clear lip on the bottom and layer separated arms on the key, but in other pics, Android Invasion especially you can see the arms are part of the same layer and in the lock picture specifically you can see the thickness of the cross arms is the same as the thickness of the top of the key meaning it's the same layer. Missing from all of these that is clearly not the Peertwee is the bottom lip. Patterns are probably the most difficult thing to figure out, but they appear to be basically the same as on the Pertwee styled key. We're still looking for screen shots that show them clearly enough though. The key also seems to be a bit bigger than a Pertwee over all as well, though we're not sure by how much. Width for example may be similar but the new key appears to be longer.

Anyway, these are our findings, tell us what you think.
 
Sweet! Thanks Wazoo! Finding the key in "Robot" was a stroke of luck. I was watching "Logopolis" and had turned to the special features which had shown some clips from "Robot" and the key just stood right out at me. Which then gave me a whole new set of episode to do research on. Previously we have thought the Baker key was a replacement for the Pertwee copy in Season 13 so we never thought to look back to 12.
 
For those interested, we have been in contact with Mooncrest Models and he is happy to make a replica of the Baker key. Straker and I are finalizing onscreen details into a design that we will pass onto Mooncrest and he'll take it from there. No time frame for the project as he is a busy guy so we'll wait for his schedule but at least we know a replica is happening!
 
Hardest part about this is trying to figure out the front patterns. There's really no clear and clean shot of the patterns on the front so we may have to idealize them a bit. I'm still using the Pertwee key as a basis but straightening out some lines here and there and also referencing the Spirit of Light key as I'm assuming they might have used this key for a reference for their own replica made in the 80's.

Really wish we could find a good shot of this key, lol.
 
Another update to the classic series keys, thanks to Ben Flay from The TARDIS Owners Club pointing me to a scene in "The Mark of the Rani" showing the Sixth Doctor's key. In the scene we can see that Colin is using a silver Yale or Yale type key with one shoulder but the scene doesn't show us any clear face details to exactly match the key. That said we get a great look at the two chains he has attached to his key. One is the large anodized green pocket watch chain he wears on his waist coat in Season 22 and the other is a smaller red chain, of which we can see two strands dangling from the key with both ends being tucked into his waistcoat pocket.

I was abe to find a nice match for both chains online, although it took some searching and size guessing. You can see key and chains in the screen caps and my replica attached here. Also, I'll probably wait to update my collection photo until Mooncrest can make a replica of the Baker key Straker and I recently posted about.
0x140-The-Mark-of-the-Rani-01.png0x140-The-Mark-of-the-Rani-02.pngIMG_4489.jpg
 
Does anyone know where I could find a fairly accurate 3rd/4th Doctor or 8th Doctor TARDIS key vector? If not I can just 3D print one from TinkerCAD but I'd really like a vector graphic that I can print and use as a template for a paper model to test dimensions, etc.
 
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xIykoc3.jpgFirst time poster to the RPF here. I have browsed around a few times after hearing about it from Adam Savage. But today I made my first actual replica prop thats not made of paper. I made a perception filter key. I just grabbed a few blank keys with a round top. I hadn't seen this thread until after I had started making the prop. I don't know whats worse, the fact that I had everything but the blank key in my bedroom or the fact I am making props now (not actually bad just nerdy). But I used a dremel to key the key to look like this pattern (http://hotgeekz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/clip_image014.jpg) then used this still posted by Terrasolo (http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w128/terrasolo/3x13-The-Last-of-the-Time-Lords-1_zps8fcb166c.png) to super glue all the components on. I took a simple 8 pin IC (a 555 timer works) and cut the legs off then sanded the botom to be rough for the glue to hold. The cut up a sim card for the gold contact pad, found a resistor and then some wires from my old computers power/led for the red and black wires. I didn't solder anything since I didn't see the previous posted replica done by straker until afterward. But I am still happy with this for it being my first prop. I have plans to visit a local locksmith and see if I can find a more accurate yale or ERA key. Here is my finished product.
http://i.imgur.com/xIykoc3.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

TardisKey.jpgOH yes and I figured this is worth sharing.
 
Think i may have found something, not sure if has been mentioned already

i have found a key, the same shape/style as an ERA, but it is made from steel

it is called a MILA key

question, i know it seems common knowledge that the series 1 key was an ERA, but where did this info come from?
i know there are photos of ERA locks being used, but for example ive got a YALE lock at work on my door but the key that fits it is not a YALE brand at all

someone on here said they know for a fact a silca key was used for the prop but i dont agree at all as it is not quite the right shape

i am curious about something, if in the end all we do is sand the key and remove the brand, then why doesnt everyone just use a good old YALE key? it is after all the same shape and correct metal
 
In regards to the Silca key, I agree we are only taking the word of someone who claims to have owned a screen used one or had insider knowledge about the key. Many of us use a JMA key for the sanded version just because it seemed to be a good match. So far no one had really found a Silca that seems to match yet so we can not confirm or deny this rumor. It could have been anything and really any key with the same body details would work so long as it is a steel key or as long as you have it plated in some way back to silver.

Although I will say it is this cap from "Blink" that seems to lend weight to the Silca key being used as the face details here do match up, from what we can tell, with some of the Silca keys on the market.

3x10-Blink-05.jpg

The reason we know that ERA keys were used is because there is plenty of evidence proving that fact, which you can see all over this thread but for ease of the search I'll put it all here. Here you can see an assortment of caps showing the ERA key in use in the show. They are:

1) Who Spy from the BBC Doctor Who website during the filming of Series 1, sowing a set of spare keys hanging inside one of the Police Box Props. This shows both sides of the ERA key.
2) Rose Tyler's key from "Aliens of London" showing the non-logo side of the ERA key (Her key was later changed in Series 1 to the sanded version)
3 & 4) Tennant using an ERA key in "The Lazarus Experiment". Although he primarily used the sanded version the ERA key popped up a couple of times in his era.
5) The ERA Lock face in a close up from "Blink". This is the same lock face used throughout the entire RTD era on all the Police Box props although the paint application varies from prop to prop and due to touch-ups. Sometimes the paint would make the ERA logo not visible at all which you can see in "Father's Day" (not pictured) and by the time of "Water of Mars" they had filed the logo off completely (also not pictured).
6) The inside latch/lock showing the ERA logo in a close up from "Utopia", which like the lock face, is the same latch/lock used throughout the RTD era.


1x06-Dalek-BBC-Site-Who-Spy-Week-17.jpg 1x04-Aliens-of-London-B-(Low-res-shows-outline).png 3x06-The Lazarus-Experiment-2-copy.png 3x06-The Lazarus-Experiment-3-copy.png 3x10-Blink-11.png 3x11-Utopia-1.png

I hope that helps clarify the ERA key for you.

If you can, please feel free to share pictures of the MILA key. I'm sure we'd all be curious to see it.
 
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Thank you for taking the time to type all of that out and finding those photos, i have never seen those photos before. so thank you
it turns out that my MILA keys, are also brass, i sanded it at work today and it looked like steel,

so when they sanded the ERA keys, did they keep having to re paint them silver again? to hide the brass, i am holding this sanded MILA key, and even though it is brass, it still looks pretty silver in some light. maybe they didnt need to bother? or only touched them up in close up shots

just a couple of questions, you may happen to know,
i wanted to make my own rose key, i thought the D shackle was 4mm, now i have it i think i would be better off with 6mm, do you happen to know a more correct size please?
i guess no one really knows how long the chain for the key was, i counted about 63 links but it is hard to tell, i have a feeling it is much shorter

thank you for your help
 
I'm happy to help.

We were told that they only sanded Silca keys and then had them rhodium plated back to silver. If it wasn't Silca a second brand of some sort does seems to havebeen used as the shoulder/bump doesn't match the ERA keys.

For Rose's chain I counted 40 links myself and I guessed the size to be a 5/32" D Shackle. When held like Rose in "Aliens of London" it looks to be the correct scale.
 
DSCF0202.JPG DSCF0203.JPG
these are the MILA keys i found today, very close if not exact the an ERA key,
Chrome plated brass
in the photo with the four keys we have....
first 2 keys are standard
3rdkey is sanded
4th key is the same but with MILA on the back rather then front
 
That is a pretty good match. Nice find. It looks good sanded but it wouldn't make a good double for the none sanded ERA key of course due to not having a non-logo side. But as a Tenth Doctor key it's a great match.
 
my bad i should have been more clear

this key DOES have a non logo side, what i mean to say was the MILA logo is found on only 1 side of the key, just like the ERA, however, that last key on the end is exactly the same as the others but with the logo on the opposite side only
 
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