X-Wing Pilot flight harness

[ghostryder]

Sorry if this is already covered, I did a search and could find any info on the flight harness. Does anyone know the material they were made from? Have a decent reference photos? Anyone make replicas?

Tks in advance!

(ugh, mods, wrong forum - can you move to costuming - tks!)

 

[phase pistol]

 

[micdavis]

Thought to be a found item, but none have surfaced, I believe.

They appear in a previous war movie or something.

 

[lonepigeon]

Thought to be a found item, but none have surfaced, I believe.

The white vests are part of a high-altitude pressure suit made by Windak in 1962.
Bossk and Bo'Shek (Cantina guy with sideburns) both wear the full suit.

I've only seen pics of a couple in museums, none for sale or in private collections. I have no idea how the production got a hold of so many. Surplus box full of them or maybe they only had a few and copied them.

Edit - Unless your talking about the grey webbing. I've seen similar web belts, but I don't think there's been a positive match yet.

 

[GINO]

The flightsuits (which are the same pattern as the tie pilot, rebel ground crew, at-at pilot) were made by Bermans & Nathans, and I believe the pressure vests were as well. After comparing the original pressure vest to the other screen used vests, I'm pretty confident they just used it as a basis to create all the other ones.

 

[lonepigeon]

The flightsuits (which are the same pattern as the tie pilot, rebel ground crew, at-at pilot) were made by Bermans & Nathans, and I believe the pressure vests were as well. After comparing the original pressure vest to the other screen used vests, I'm pretty confident they just used it as a basis to create all the other ones.

Not exactly.
The flightsuits were found, maybe Bermans copied a few or made the Hero ones more fitted, but they have tags. I examined a few of Lucasfilm's first hand and the tags read Tootal workwear.
I found the company, but never researched further into it.
http://www.tootal.nl/uk/rood.htm

As for the white vests, they may have made some but not all. Luke's ANH vest has the metal tubing in the ridges which means it's a real pressure suit vest (ESB pics look real too). I haven't seen any that are noticeably different from Luke's either so if they made copies they're darn good ones. I think they at least had a surplus box full of real ones.

 

[GINO]

Hmm. I could have swore there was paperwork that had the breakdown of how my suits were made and per color, and that it was B&N.

Here's a shot of one of the tags from Kurtz archive.

PS, as far as the screen used vest go, yes they have metal piping in them, but I'm confident they are replica.
I've researched these flight suits (the bossk style flight suits) in an effort to try to obtain an original, and all of the people I've come across and discussed this with all believe the SW ones are indeed replicas and that there are not very many of those original working pressure vests in existence as very few were supposedly ever made.

Here's one of the originals. You can see that the ones used in the film were designed to look like real ones, even going so far as to include the metal piping in the ribs.

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[lonepigeon]

Hmm. I could have swore there was paperwork that had the breakdown of how my suits were made and per color, and that it was B&N.

Here's a shot of one of the tags from Kurtz archive.
.

They may have made the Hero ones from scratch. I don't know.
Military uniforms are often tailor made for the main characters in movies.

I examined the suits at SW Celebration (the first one in 1999) and saw the tags myself. I wrote the info down right there and then. They also had Imperial officer uniforms and I pulled out the dosimeters to copy down the model numbers (this was well before anyone found any real ones).
I wish I could find the piece of paper now, because I know there was a bit more info on the tag. They definitely weren't Bermans tags though.

 

[GINO]

I wonder if the suits at SW C1 were screen used suits.

 

[lonepigeon]

PS, as far as the screen used vest go, yes they have metal piping in them, but I'm confident they are replica.
I've researched these flight suits (the bossk style flight suits) in an effort to try to obtain an original, and all of the people I've come across and discussed this with all believe the SW ones are indeed replicas and that there are not very many of those original working pressure vests in existence as very few were supposedly ever made.

Here's one of the originals. You can see that the ones used in the film were designed to look like real ones, even going so far as to include the metal piping in the ribs.

.

I have the same pic of the original suit.
It seems like an awful lot of work to go through to copy the vests when there's no need to. It's not like they had to be historically accurate. To duplicate the materials, stitching, layers, and tubing just seems like too much trouble for minor costumes. I'm curious if the side buckles match.
If the X-wing vest buckles match a real suit vest then I'd be even more convinced they're real.
Being hard to find now is not proof they are replicas. It's just as likely the manufacturer dumped the leftover scraps of a failed flight suit project into a surplus pile that made it to a costume house.

They did have two real full suits with helmets.
At least 3 were used in First Men in the Moon. I'm not sure how many were used in old Doctor Who episodes.

 

[GINO]

Believe me, I was totally disheartened at the prospect of the screen used pieces not being found items. But after talking to a couple of people who study/collect these type of suits like we study/collect props, they have me completely convinced.

BTW, I don't believe the buckles are the same.

A couple of these original suits were re-used in different productions (as you mentioned) before they landed in the SW costume dept.
The original Bossk costume (which is the yellow version of this suit and sports a real pressure vest) currently resides in a private collection.


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[lonepigeon]

I wonder if the suits at SW C1 were screen used suits.

I believe they were.
They carried around screen used helmets and the rest of the stuff looks legit.

Found a pic online of one of the LFL guys...
http://www.starwars.com/img/fans/events/20090428news/xwing01_bg.jpg

PS - That helmet belonged to Derek "Hobbie" Klivian in ESB.

 

[GINO]

Most interesting.

 

[lonepigeon]

I suppose it's possible Tootal was only the fabric supplier (their website talks more about fabrics than garments) but then why would Bermans sew Tootal tags into the suits?

 

[GINO]

Possibly, but you're right that wouldn't make sense. It seems not all the suits had a Tootal tag in them, and by what you've said, the suit you saw had the Tootal tag, but not the B&N correct?
Is it possible that Tootal had a division that made garments back then, and B&N farmed this work out?

PS, this thread should be in the prop forum.


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[Darth Lars]

I don't understand what is meant by "harness" exactly.. but..

The grey straps and belt are most likely made from seat belt webbing as found in older Rover cars. I can't remember where or from whom I first heard about it, but I can confirm that as far as I can see it matches what I can see in reference pictures. I have never seen this type of webbing anywhere else.
Unfortunately, each seat belt is only a few feet long, so you might need the belts from all four seats in a car to get enough for a single costume.

Most costumers in the Rebel Legion get cheap "silver grey" nylon or polypropylene webbing from Strapworks.com and sew them together themselves. It does not look accurate up close, but it is what is available, it looks good enough at a distance ... and in costuming groups uniformity is sometimes more desirable than accuracy.

The loops for holding the "miniflares" is some other type of webbing, 1" wide. The buckle is a "Roll Pin" belt buckle. It is still part of standard issue British Army webbing and can be obtained from British army surplus stores. I got mine from RPF member Mr Bojangles, though.

You could also check out The Ultimate X-Wing Pilot Thread.

 

[Treadwell]

I'm not sure how many were used in old Doctor Who episodes.

Just two, the same yellow* and black pair, probably.
The serial was called "The Wheel in Space", and the two surviving episodes are on the DVD set "Lost in Time".

*I assume it's yellow, but the show's in B&W

 

[division 6]

The one at C1 was screen used.

The vest had all the interior webbing in it that everyone thinks is smaller tubing when they make replicas.
It's actually the shoulder straps that go all the way to the bottom of the vest.

With the ESB / RotJ vests they cut off the shoulder straps and sewed on new ones.

If you have the straps go all the way to the bottom angled as the are on the originals the shoulder strap sits at the correct angle on your shoulders.

Measurements in my drawings where obtained using laser calipers on one of the suits on display provided by Mat Clayson.

D6

 

[ghostryder]

Thanks for all the info guys... Anyone make decent replicas of the straps or vest?

Thanks again!

 

[Jinyo]

Found this pic of a screen-used costume, you can see the texture of the strap.